SST 70, Change to Formula 75

[Ron Hill]

From what I've seen and heard, SST 70 is a DEAD in the water class...

Why not change the Name and rules...???


Make it half of a Formula 150. Formula 150 is a REAL CLASS with real rules....

Vic Brinkman just bought an SST 70 off E-Bay complete boat, motor and trailer.....I was talking to him about keeping this Hemp boat and running a steel sleeved 2.5.......Might be a fun ride....and cheap, because an SST 70 requires a Stock SST 140 block, and where do you find one of those???

[Joe J]

Ron:

If it is dead, why mess w/ it? We already have too many classes as it is.

Joe

[Ron Hill]

Combine the classes, run more laps and less heats..

Did SST 70 run at Kankakee this year????
Vic Brinkman bought an SST 70 on E-Bay and didn'y want to buy an SST 140 block to race...

[Jakob77]

The last time SST-70 was run at Kankakee was 2002 or 2003.

Why doesn't Vic put an SST-60 on the boat and run SST-60 with it? Pretty much the same boat. Most people I saw run SST-70 had a modified SST-60 powerhead and Pittman and Kratchowill still beat them with their stock SST-60 stuff.

[Roy Hodges]

Combine the classes, run more laps and less heats..

Did SST 70 run at Kankakee this year????
Vic Brinkman bought an SST 70 on E-Bay and didn'y want to buy an SST 140 block to race...
I agree. I bet there might be many like me who don't care about (expensive national) points , but would just like to go out and mix it up (safely&friendly)& GO FAST . And a ribbon is just as good as a trophy, &a whole lot cheaper. In fact I have a suggestion : Let entry fees be cheaper, only a ribbon given out, but those who NEED a trophy , can purchase it at extra cost . (and, i don't care about the venom that might arise from my idea) it doesn't matter. P S ; it's easier to dust off a ribbon

[David Mason]

Vic bought the rig with intent to re-sell some things. I believe he has the same gearbox as the SST 120 guys had on this, and the same mid.

I don't think Vic is interested in racing the boat.

Does anyone know if the normal mid and gearbox used on a SST60 is the same as the SST120 ?

[Jakob77]

The midsections and gear cases aren't even remotely close.

SST120 uses a mercury racing midsection and a speedmaster gear case. SST60 uses a stock OMC midsection and a stock OMC gear case, modified from the factory with a nose cone.

Mark

[TABARARACING]

Well whoever bought that boat is going to be in for a couple surprises. Midsections been modified, not legal for sst 120. Good for a lake racer.
Check the gear ratio in that gearcase. Chances are that is not a 14:15 gearbox on the back of that boat. If the gear ratio is not the 14:15 they will not be the forged gears that the 120 guys run, and will make it out 1 or 2 times with 6 cylinders of firing on the back. Gearcase value will be of the housing only, saying its in good condition.
SST 70 mercury boats were highly modified mercury engines. They were not just half of a 140 motor. Chances are they're has been alot of epoxy work on the intake manifold, pvc sleeves put on the other bank.
Not to rip on the equipment the guy just purchased, but what he has is a good sst 60 starter boat for sale, and some parts for a lake racer to go use, and possibly a studs up housing that has had the skeg welded on from hitting debris in Sioux City Ia. Still got a good buy, and he'll get his money out, and maybe a few bucks, but I hope he knew all this going in.
Brian

[TABARARACING]

I kind of got side tracked on that post, SST 70 was a very neat class. With the different rule combinations, it was a engine builders and tinkerers class. We really enjoyed the class, if there would be sst 70 running with a healthy boat count in this area, I'm pretty sure my brother Steve would have a boat and would be running it.
And I also have SST 140 stock equipment. ( Ron Asked above)

[larry swinford]

Ron,

You are right about F-150 being a real class. This has been a poor year due to fuel and travel costs being hard on racers financially. Even so F-150 has continued to grow it's membership while other classes have lost membership.
For those that think there are too many classes, they are dead wrong. When APBA-OPC did a wholesale slaughter on classes the OPC membership fell from 1200+ to 700+ and has continued to drop membership as classes are dropped. I personally have had seven classes kicked out from under me as they were dropped when they still had good numbers. Now the OPC Chair is suggesting that we get rid of old boats and buy new ones. How many will that chase out of racing? My boat will start it's twenty second year at Parker this Thanksgiving and will start my fourty eighth season of racing. With a short season due to finances my boat and I ran third in points in F-150and in the top half of SST-120 with a 1990 SST-120 engine.
Now Ron, remember the conversation we had this spring?
I plan on proposing not one, but two new classes at the National meeting. They are Formula-125 and Formula-100 for local racing to grow. I will get the rules to you next month. I will also propose that series races have their own points separated from non series race points!
F-150 rules were arbitrarily changed and I will try to get them corrected.

Larry Swinford
707




From what I've seen and heard, SST 70 is a DEAD in the water class...

Why not change the Name and rules...???


Make it half of a Formula 150. Formula 150 is a REAL CLASS with real rules....

Vic Brinkman just bought an SST 70 off E-Bay complete boat, motor and trailer.....I was talking to him about keeping this Hemp boat and running a steel sleeved 2.5.......Might be a fun ride....and cheap, because an SST 70 requires a Stock SST 140 block, and where do you find one of those???

[Ron Hill]

Seems to me, that you and I have always seen "eye to eye" on classes...What does it hurt to have 5,000 classes???Just run them in groups, even set up handicaps, like Parker had...

Throw these two class rules at us...

AND what was changed in Formula 150 that you want changed back...?
WHAT I'D RATHER SEE, THAN "PARK" OLD BOATS, IS THAT CAPSULES GET side pods, AND CAPSULES GET SOME CARBON ADDED TO THE INSIDES.

I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME 15 "A" JOHNSON THROTTLE PARTS TODAY, WHEN I FOUND SOME PICTURES I'D LOST...I found Buddy Babbit's side pod design for tunnel boats...I'll post the pictures tomorrow, but think there time has come...

Before I see your rules..do either of your classes allow stock gearcases with bottom water pick ups?? And right hand rotation....

See you at Parker, Thanksgiving.......

[Joe J]

With the limited driver pool we have, it seems to me it would be better to focus on existing classes, and try to build the numbers up in them.

I too remember having 10-12 DIFFERENT boats, in 5-6 OPC classes. I do not see this happening again, which is too bad.

Joe Johnson

[Ron Hill]

Carl bought a barn to build clutches in....or something like that...In this barn were a bunch of outboard motor parts from a company that went broke...

Carl put the motors together, got them running right and sold them...You can almost plot OUTBOARD RACING's Group from when Carl started producing outboard motors until the date his board of directors kicked him out....

Western Engine distribued Tohatsu engines and Volvo Sterndrives.......Mini Boat Racing was going and growing until Western Engine lost their distributorship of Volvo engines...They took their $28,000,000 and moved back to Wisconsi...

The country is full of racers.....BMX, MOTO CROSS, Junior Dragsters, Go Karts....

No one, I should say, almost no one looks at these other RACING ASSOCIATIONS to see why they are totally kicking *** with races, equipment and growth....

I talk to Rich Job ALL THE TIME...Rich raced 20, "C", OSY 400, his son raced J and A....Rich would still like to race boats...but he and his son race Go Karts, probably spending more on KARTS than they did on boats......but they race all the time and have two carts..

But there are short races, long races novice races, fat man's races, junior races....sometime all on the same weekend....He tires me out telling me how much they race.. To run five classes in outboard racing he needed three boat, maybe four motors or different sizes....

Anyway, there are people that want to race boats...we just haven't reached them....

[larry swinford]

(Quote=Larry Swinford)

5000 classes is a little overkill.
Mike took it on himself to restrict carb. venturies.
Somehow someone allowed the new 2.5 injected engine to be oked to run in Formula-150. It is also allowed in SST-120. It kicks a-- in both classes and defeats the purpose and intent and rules of both classes.

Any center section and gearcase will be legal just as it is in F-150.
The whole purpose is to have inexpensive classes for local racing as there are a lot of used boats and older engines available at low prices.
I build all of my engines out of throwaway parts from Marinas.
Existing capsules can be beefed up and strengthened.
Yes to the right hand gearcases.

Larry



Seems to me, that you and I have always seen "eye to eye" on classes...What does it hurt to have 5,000 classes???Just run them in groups, even set up handicaps, like Parker had...

Throw these two class rules at us...

AND what was changed in Formula 150 that you want changed back...?
WHAT I'D RATHER SEE, THAN "PARK" OLD BOATS, IS THAT CAPSULES GET side pods, AND CAPSULES GET SOME CARBON ADDED TO THE INSIDES.

I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME 15 "A" JOHNSON THROTTLE PARTS TODAY, WHEN I FOUND SOME PICTURES I'D LOST...I found Buddy Babbit's side pod design for tunnel boats...I'll post the pictures tomorrow, but think there time has come...

Before I see your rules..do either of your classes allow stock gearcases with bottom water pick ups?? And right hand rotation....

See you at Parker, Thanksgiving.......

[Ron Hill]

Is that EFI you are talking about like the Laser? I have two 2.5's, one is on my daughter's boat the other is all over the shop, block's at John Lane Racing....These were both 1995 motors....Are you saying these will out run good carbs???

Well, with 5,000 classes you'd sure have a lot of boats at the races...

Combine classes and give points to one boat if that is all that shows up...

I went to The Run to the Sun Car Show with BIG FRED.....as in Fred Bowden....There were a thousand cars being shown......There were so many classes to win in Fred tried to explain, then just said drink your beer , I always win MY CLASS!!!! In fact he said, I ain't never been beat... At that point, I was afraid to ask how many were in his class....

There were 1,000 cars, and all they did is sit around and polish them....but there were about 30,000 there watching people polish there cars...Seems to me agood boat show could draw a crowd, then we could put on a race or two while everyone was there!!!!

[larry swinford]

It's the new cylinder injected engine that is clean and you can't change any thing on it. Mercury sent one out to Rick to test. I think there are only about five of them being tested. Last year I could beat it but with new props and maybe a chip change (?) it has come alive. I don't know if it is on the market yet.

larry



Is that EFI you are talking about like the Laser? I have two 2.5's, one is on my daughter's boat the other is all over the shop, block's at John Lane Racing....These were both 1995 motors....Are you saying these will out run good carbs???

Well, with 5,000 classes you'd sure have a lot of boats at the races...

Combine classes and give points to one boat if that is all that shows up...

I went to The Run to the Sun Car Show with BIG FRED.....as in Fred Bowden....There were a thousand cars being shown......There were so many classes to win in Fred tried to explain, then just said drink your beer , I always win MY CLASS!!!! In fact he said, I ain't never been beat... At that point, I was afraid to ask how many were in his class....

There were 1,000 cars, and all they did is sit around and polish them....but there were about 30,000 there watching people polish there cars...Seems to me agood boat show could draw a crowd, then we could put on a race or two while everyone was there!!!!

[larry swinford]

I had brain fade the other day.
It's the Optimax. It has been shown at a Florida boat show, but I don't think it is in production yet.
larry



It's the new cylinder injected engine that is clean and you can't change any thing on it. Mercury sent one out to Rick to test. I think there are only about five of them being tested. Last year I could beat it but with new props and maybe a chip change (?) it has come alive. I don't know if it is on the market yet.

larry

[Pitboss]

Larry...We ran the new Optimax all this year in SST120 running in Champboat and also in APR Superleague. Driver/Owner Kelly Kidwell out of ST.Louis...

The motor shows promise and has good punch and top speed, the problem being is it wont come off the dock. Because of the design that Merc has in it, the motor has to turn so many revs before it can fire. By the time it fires, you usually are 4 or 5 boat lengths behind. It runs great once ya get her going. I pit for Kelly and its frustrating to always have to be chasing down the other boats. We usually catch and pass about half the field but its a lot of work. No problem with reliability, and not having to mess with timing and jetting is great. Its got potential for sure.

Just thought I'd throw this in for grins. By the way it takes a BIG Wheel!!!

Be interesting to see what works in 07.... Pitboss 77

[larry swinford]

Help me!

Is Kelly a son of or related to Kerry Kidwell.
If so I need a phone number for both of them.

larry c.



Larry...We ran the new Optimax all this year in SST120 running in Champboat and also in APR Superleague. Driver/Owner Kelly Kidwell out of ST.Louis...

The motor shows promise and has good punch and top speed, the problem being is it wont come off the dock. Because of the design that Merc has in it, the motor has to turn so many revs before it can fire. By the time it fires, you usually are 4 or 5 boat lengths behind. It runs great once ya get her going. I pit for Kelly and its frustrating to always have to be chasing down the other boats. We usually catch and pass about half the field but its a lot of work. No problem with reliability, and not having to mess with timing and jetting is great. Its got potential for sure.

Just thought I'd throw this in for grins. By the way it takes a BIG Wheel!!!

Be interesting to see what works in 07.... Pitboss 77

[larry swinford]

Help me!

Is Kelly a son of or related to Kerry Kidwell.
If so I need a phone number for both of them.

larry c.

Are you starting with 12 or 24 volts?
Are you using full size batteries that have 1000 cold cranking amps.
Those big props need lots of oomph on a dock start.

larry

[Pitboss]

Larry....Kelly Kidwell is a nephew of Kerry Kidwell. Kerry resides in Calif and has come back a couple years when we run StLouis. Kerry was big in the west coast circuit some years ago. Like some of us, he has gained a few years!!

I dont have Kerry's phone number but Kelly is 314-707-5432

The starting thing is the biggest drawback on the optimax. I dont care what kinda batterys ya use, and weve tried em all. Until Mercury makes some internal changes and/or the PCM it will still not fire off the beach.

Lotsa props used last year, most directly from Merc itself. Kelly is close to Fred H up there in Wisc.

See ya Pitboss 77

[larry swinford]

I did some checking and found out that the starter has a reduction gear drive.
Mercury needs to change the starters on racing engines. The reduction drive starters are probably OK on stock engines.
larry


Larry....Kelly Kidwell is a nephew of Kerry Kidwell. Kerry resides in Calif and has come back a couple years when we run StLouis. Kerry was big in the west coast circuit some years ago. Like some of us, he has gained a few years!!

I dont have Kerry's phone number but Kelly is 314-707-5432

The starting thing is the biggest drawback on the optimax. I dont care what kinda batterys ya use, and weve tried em all. Until Mercury makes some internal changes and/or the PCM it will still not fire off the beach.

Lotsa props used last year, most directly from Merc itself. Kelly is close to Fred H up there in Wisc.

See ya Pitboss 77