D'Cucci Flat Bottoms With Cobra Outdrive

[Ron Hill]

Does anyone know what engine was in the D'Cucci Flat Bottoms with the Cobra Outdrives? They are 20 year old Cobra's with a four banger? Paul Gritchar thought they were Ford Pinto motors but wasn't sure...

I thought somebody might know for sure, 1986 plus or minus a few years OMC FOUR BANGER!!!

[mercguy]

Does anyone know whatg engine was in the D'Cucci Flat Bottoms with the Cobra Outdrives? They are 20 year old Cobra's with a four banger? Paul Gritchar thought they were Ford Pinto motors but wasn't sure...

I thought somebody might know for sure, 1986 plus or minus a few years OMC FOUR BANGER!!!

Ron, the 2.3L Cobra motors were Fords.......Pinto motors.......:(

Can't believe they would use that motor in that kind of boat though.........must have been a turd for performance??? Terrible combination......Ford 2.3 and a Cobra outdrive.........what a waste.......would have been somuch better outboard powered!

[Ron Hill]

From what I've heard these boats went about 55 MPH. Paul Gritchar, Pat Bowman, Ernie Dawe, Rod Zapf and myself, think they'd be cool little pieces at 70-75 MPH....

What small motor, 231 V-6 Buick type, is around in the MILLIONS, that would be a replacement for the PINTO?

Freddy Hauenstein mentions Merc's 135 HP in line four. What is that motor???

Jay Root, you OUT THERE????? (Jay ran some kind of an in line 4 or 6 in a Scotti Tunnel...so fast, he got kicked out of 145 hydro...)...

Hey, while I'm at it...Do you think there is any speed difference between a Bravo, Alpha and a Cobra??? They all have a 4 1/2 "R" measurement....

[mercguy]

From what I've heard these boats went about 55 MPH. Paul Gritchar, Pat Bowman, Ernie Dawe, Rod Zapf and myself, think they'd be cool little pieces at 70-75 MPH....

What small motor, 231 V-6 Buick type, is around in the MILLIONS, that would be a replacement for the PINTO?

Freddy Hauenstein mentions Merc's 135 HP in line four. What is that motor???

Jay Root, you OUT THERE????? (Jay ran some kind of an in line 4 or 6 in a Scotti Tunnel...so fast, he got kicked out of 145 hydro...)...

Hey, while I'm at it...Do you think there is any speed difference between a Bravo, Alpha and a Cobra??? They all have a 4 1/2 "R" measurement....

the 135 is a 3.0L Chevy, still made in Mexico. The most common V6 would be the 4.3L Chevy, which was ran with Mercruisers (and still is)and Cobras. Personaly, I think the Cobras are junk and if it is an early one that did not get the gear/clutch dog/shift cable update, it will soon fail! The Alpha is better suited for speeds 65MPH and lower and is faster than the Bravo. But, the Alpha will not handle the high torque of a big cubic inch motor. You will find that out by noticing the only 454 Alpha package was in the Sea Ray Pachanga's, which most have been upgraded to Bravo's, after the Alpha's failed, due to constant loading/unloading of the prop. Best little package nowadays is the 350MagMPI/Alpha package or the 6.2L/Bravo I for light boats........

[mercguy]

then why did you bring up a Cobra sterndrive???????:rolleyes: ;)



PS: the only thing I like better about a Cobra sterndrive, is that it is MUCH EASIER to replace the u-joint bellows and lower shift cable compared to a Mercruiser.........

[Ron Hill]

Joey Cucci, driver of GN, "BODY SNATCHER" owned by Ted Kobly, has four D'Cucci 16 foot Flat Bottoms with Ford/OMC Cobra drives already built and sitting on trailers for 20 years.

Ben Marrone, myself, Paul Grichar, Rod Zapf and Ernie Dawe think we need an introductory class....and with four boats already built, I was looking ahead to see what else we could build that would work for these D'Cucci hulls....

75 MPH was as fast as we wanted these boats to go, they went 55 before, and that was the PROBLEM!!!!

[fyremanbill]

Don't know anything about the Cobra outdrive, but the Ford 2/2.3L engines were good performers for there vintage design. I was in high school about the time that Pinto's and Capri's were cheap used cars. Don't ever remember a failure, even with cam, carb, exhaust mods and 7500RPM. They were sold in very large number in EFI turbo form in the 80's, and were totally reliable. If the outdrive will take it, just do the basic hop-up on them and run it. Probably easier than an engine swap.

[Ron Hill]

Bill, you got any time to go testing with us???

Gritch sounds like you....But in his own way Gritch said...."I'll get the oil changed, make sure everything is OK, and let's run it...

I figure I can give the boat 5 MPH with a prop....

Seems to me, at 7,500 RPM and light weight boat, the outdrive wouldn't need to be too strong....

Seems that Sea Doo and Yamaha are selling small V-Hulls with jets....a D'Cucci Flat bottom might not just be a RACE BOAT, might make a COOL RIVER RUNNER...Oh course, I've got ten boats now...One more would only be a 10% increase!!!!

[fyremanbill]

Depends when your going! I'd like to go, but can't until mid Jan or so. Those boats sound like a lot of fun. Could be made to go like hell if you put a turbo on them...cheap and easy too!!!

[Ron Hill]

Well, the APBA National Convention is in January and it is in LA....I'd hope that ALL BOAT RACERS AND CREWS would at least make the TREK to LA, to at least have a few FREE BEERS from Seebold in the HOSPITALITY ROOM...APBA IS MADE UP OF PEOPLE WHO LIKE RACE BOATS.....

And we have a race a TITO's Lake, ALSO KNOWN AS HAVASU LANDING....

So, testing in January, probably isn't going to happen soon...But, I hope we can run at the LAKE in Orange County....when we do test...

[fyremanbill]

Well, if your going to test close by, let me know. And of course, I'm always up for drinking free beer.

[whaledog]

P.J. ran these engines in the Baha small truck class Stroppe and Jones built them in the late 70s.They had some trick stuff cams,piston combos,head work.These trucks flew over the Baha.

[mercguy]

Bill, you got any time to go testing with us???

Gritch sounds like you....But in his own way Gritch said...."I'll get the oil changed, make sure everything is OK, and let's run it...

I figure I can give the boat 5 MPH with a prop....

Seems to me, at 7,500 RPM and light weight boat, the outdrive wouldn't need to be too strong....

Seems that Sea Doo and Yamaha are selling small V-Hulls with jets....a D'Cucci Flat bottom might not just be a RACE BOAT, might make a COOL RIVER RUNNER...Oh course, I've got ten boats now...One more would only be a 10% increase!!!!

Ron says "Seems to me, at 7,500 RPM and light weight boat, the outdrive wouldn't need to be too strong...."

.........good luck with that!! ..............Again I ask you Ron, why add more classes, there are enough as it is right now! How many more classes do you think can be fit in a weekend of sanctioned racing? Sounds more like something you should organize on your own time and with your own club. Nothing personal (as you know), but you have so many ideas, but do need to face reality here...........just support what is being raced now, if that is what you are striving for......

[Moneypit]

Ron says "Seems to me, at 7,500 RPM and light weight boat, the outdrive wouldn't need to be too strong...."

.........good luck with that!! ..............Again I ask you Ron, why add more classes, there are enough as it is right now! How many more classes do you think can be fit in a weekend of sanctioned racing? Sounds more like something you should organize on your own time and with your own club. Nothing personal (as you know), but you have so many ideas, but do need to face reality here...........just support what is being raced now, if that is what you are striving for......


Ron wanted to bring these boats back for the Enduro this year. (I saw them at Joey's shop last month), Maybe he is looking down the road for Oct. 07'........I also experienced a 2300 Pinto. In a sand rail, but very performance built. It screamed!!! Go for it Ron....Hell, with Gritch and Ben in your corner you can't fail...........Ray

[Ron Hill]

Well, one thing I wanted to do when Ted and I started BRF was to have a Boat Racing ENCYCLOPEDIA. And the other thing we wanted to do was CHANGE Boat Racing, not change the people i n boat racing, but change boat racing so people who wanted to race could RACE. We have averaged 129 NEW VIEWERS a day since BRF started. Those numbers tell me, there IS INTEREST in BOAT RACING....

As far as the D'Cucci Flat Bottoms go, Gritch and I both believe they ARE LEGAL NOSTALGIA ENDURANCE BOATS. Some peole don't want to limit speeds, we feel these boats might be running "FLAT OUT" trying to do 80...

And yes, "Let no boat be left behind" for the 2007 Blue Water Resort and Casnio 300 Enduro...

When is the last boat race, besides OFFSHORE, that you read about in POWERBOAT Magazine? Powerboat did a four page spread on the 2006 Blue Water Resort and Casino 300 Enduro...

I know that my friend from Hawaii and his buddy, Amber Marine, of Costa Mesa. CA, may have raced the 007 at Parker this year, but they want to WIN, Division I next year...

Not everybody wants to ride around on tbeir knees going 65 MPH on a sheet of plywood...Some people, want to set down, turn the key and go RACING....

And a COBRA drive may not hold up, but I have 14 Bravo drives to help SUPPLANT this class....

[fyremanbill]

What is the torque rating on the Cobra drives?

[mercguy]

What is the torque rating on the Cobra drives?


but, they will not handle more than 300hp........except maybe on a real light boat. Since Ron stated they have been sitting for 20yrs, I doubt they have been updated, thus are serious candidates for gear/clutch dog problems! Although, if they are only used for a couple hours at a time in limited use, they should be fine with the 2.3L........with no turbo's!

and Ron, the Bravo's would be an overkill...............go find yourself a couple Alpha 1 S/S's...............

[mercguy]

Well, one thing I wanted to do when Ted and I started BRF was to have a Boat Racing ENCYCLOPEDIA. And the other thing we wanted to do was CHANGE Boat Racing, not change the people i n boat racing, but change boat racing so people who wanted to race could RACE. We have averaged 129 NEW VIEWERS a day since BRF started. Those numbers tell me, there IS INTEREST in BOAT RACING....

As far as the D'Cucci Flat Bottoms go, Gritch and I both believe they ARE LEGAL NOSTALGIA ENDURANCE BOATS. Some peole don't want to limit speeds, we feel these boats might be running "FLAT OUT" trying to do 80...

And yes, "Let no boat be left behind" for the 2007 Blue Water Resort and Casnio 300 Enduro...

When is the last boat race, besides OFFSHORE, that you read about in POWERBOAT Magazine? Powerboat did a four page spread on the 2006 Blue Water Resort and Casino 300 Enduro...

I know that my friend from Hawaii and his buddy, Amber Marine, of Costa Mesa. CA, may have raced the 007 at Parker this year, but they want to WIN, Division I next year...

Not everybody wants to ride around on tbeir knees going 65 MPH on a sheet of plywood...Some people, want to set down, turn the key and go RACING....

And a COBRA drive may not hold up, but I have 14 Bravo drives to help SUPPLANT this class....

Ron says "Not everybody wants to ride around on tbeir knees going 65 MPH on a sheet of plywood...Some people, want to set down, turn the key and go RACING...."

how about laying down and turnng the key and going racing........;)

[fyremanbill]

Daren, I don't think those engines will make more than about 1.3 hp/cu.in. without a lot of work. That should put them at about 180hp, at 6500RPM only about 150 ft/lb torque.

[mercguy]

Daren, I don't think those engines will make more than about 1.3 hp/cu.in. without a lot of work. That should put them at about 180hp, at 6500RPM only about 150 ft/lb torque.

I wasn't really concerned about the power output of the 2.3L, just the reliability issue of the Cobras in racing conditions.......but, hell, they might just work fine.....;)

OK Jeff, give me hell!!!!

[Skoontz]

Shift dogs were not as much the issue with OMC drives as was the charming and delightful bronze "Pawl" finger style drive from the boat to the intermediate drive. If you could get 200 running hours out of a set of those you were lucky, and when you prop them up, pull alot of weight, or overload them, you would start wearing and loosing pawls. Once one went, all the others would follow. I am not sure if OMC ever changed from that style drive over time to a drive shaft style like Mercruiser, and if they did, great.
We always said that if you could get a Mercruiser stern drive on your Johnson/Evinrude boat it would last 50 years.

Far as the Pinto motors go, we ran one in a Formula 1000 car at Elkart Lake for years in SCCA, and you could easily get 2-3 seasons running 145-150 MPH all day long.

The engine that will show alot of promise I think, if you are going to run a lower unit boat, would be the 133 cubic inch, 2.2 liter Chevy SOHC motor they stuff into the Cavalier and now the Cobalt. They are aludimen, so, light weight, and there are lots of crazies who have made over 1500HP out of them turning high 7's and low 8's at the drag track. If you want to overkill, the weapon of choice would be the 168 cubic inch, 2.8 or the 258 cubic inch 4.3 liter Vortec. Those are screamers but they are cast iron and you're going to gain 200 lbs over the 2.2. I have friends using the V-6's in experimental aircraft running well over 300MPH in planes around the size of a Cherokee 6.

This might be insane, but what if a person made the transom to fit an outboard then bolted a 150 E-tech Evinrude up to that boat????

[mercguy]

Shift dogs were not as much the issue with OMC drives as was the charming and delightful bronze "Pawl" finger style drive from the boat to the intermediate drive. If you could get 200 running hours out of a set of those you were lucky, and when you prop them up, pull alot of weight, or overload them, you would start wearing and loosing pawls. Once one went, all the others would follow. I am not sure if OMC ever changed from that style drive over time to a drive shaft style like Mercruiser, and if they did, great.
We always said that if you could get a Mercruiser stern drive on your Johnson/Evinrude boat it would last 50 years.

Far as the Pinto motors go, we ran one in a Formula 1000 car at Elkart Lake for years in SCCA, and you could easily get 2-3 seasons running 145-150 MPH all day long.

The engine that will show alot of promise I think, if you are going to run a lower unit boat, would be the 133 cubic inch, 2.2 liter Chevy SOHC motor they stuff into the Cavalier and now the Cobalt. They are aludimen, so, light weight, and there are lots of crazies who have made over 1500HP out of them turning high 7's and low 8's at the drag track. If you want to overkill, the weapon of choice would be the 168 cubic inch, 2.8 or the 258 cubic inch 4.3 liter Vortec. Those are screamers but they are cast iron and you're going to gain 200 lbs over the 2.2. I have friends using the V-6's in experimental aircraft running well over 300MPH in planes around the size of a Cherokee 6.

This might be insane, but what if a person made the transom to fit an outboard then bolted a 150 E-tech Evinrude up to that boat????

the Cobra's (which are similiar to Mercruisers) replaced the 400/800 style series drives (stringer mounts) you are talking about with the ball gears.....

[Moneypit]

This might be insane, but what if a person made the transom to fit an outboard then bolted a 150 E-tech Evinrude up to that boat????


What if?, Isn't that what started racing? Do it!:D :D Find out "what if".... :eek: .....Ray

[mercguy]

What if?, Isn't that what started racing? Do it!:D :D Find out "what if".... :eek: .....Ray


LOL!!! And RON started this under the V-drive forum!!:p

[Jeff Akers]

OK Jeff, give me hell!!!!

You won't get any hell from me Daren.......IMHO........Sterndrives SUCK !;)

[mercguy]

You won't get any hell from me Daren.......IMHO........Sterndrives SUCK !;)

LOL!!:D :D

[Skoontz]

Jeff:

AGREED!!!! No one hated those accursed things more than my dad. I name them lower unit boats not sterndrives. Everyone buys them thinking it has a car engine and less troubles than an outboard....What they don't realize is that car engine, heavy and in the way as it always will be, is the least of their troubles!


Mercguy, when the first Cobras came out, and I'm thinking back to '79 or '80, (or were those not Cobras????) They changed the drive to through hub, but still used the pawl style connection. So please correct me here I may be off, were the first through hub exhaust OMC drive what you are calling the 400-800? Or was that the old drive that had the shape of the 100-S outboard gearbox????

[Skoontz]

Ok, walk me through this process. First remove the old excrement sitting under the engine hood and take the Cobra to the spare parts pile for those who have broken ones.

Remove any motor mounts and stringers not needed from when the engine was yanked....

Cut, from the inside of the boat, the layers of transom and then get a sheet of 5-1/4 roof sheeting, and prepare to Gorilla glue another sheet of 1/2" plywood....Get some fiberglass, and goober that baby together, after you have decided how high to cut your transom. Paint as necessary....

Sound about right????

[mercguy]

Jeff:

AGREED!!!! No one hated those accursed things more than my dad. I name them lower unit boats not sterndrives. Everyone buys them thinking it has a car engine and less troubles than an outboard....What they don't realize is that car engine, heavy and in the way as it always will be, is the least of their troubles!


Mercguy, when the first Cobras came out, and I'm thinking back to '79 or '80, (or were those not Cobras????) They changed the drive to through hub, but still used the pawl style connection. So please correct me here I may be off, were the first through hub exhaust OMC drive what you are calling the 400-800? Or was that the old drive that had the shape of the 100-S outboard gearbox????


the Cobras came out in 86, replacing the "stringer mount" type drives you are refering to. The stringer mounts began with electric shift, then went to cable operated mechanical/hydraulic assist shift, then to straight cable operated (those are a nightmare!).

[mercguy]

Ok, walk me through this process. First remove the old excrement sitting under the engine hood and take the Cobra to the spare parts pile for those who have broken ones.

Remove any motor mounts and stringers not needed from when the engine was yanked....

Cut, from the inside of the boat, the layers of transom and then get a sheet of 5-1/4 roof sheeting, and prepare to Gorilla glue another sheet of 1/2" plywood....Get some fiberglass, and goober that baby together, after you have decided how high to cut your transom. Paint as necessary....

Sound about right????


an outboard is my choice too, but not the best for all applications. Racing............outboards kick ***................cruising in large boats.........sterndrives..........

making money in the boat business for a marine tech................STERNDRIVES!!!;)

[mercguy]

Jeff:

AGREED!!!! No one hated those accursed things more than my dad. I name them lower unit boats not sterndrives. Everyone buys them thinking it has a car engine and less troubles than an outboard....What they don't realize is that car engine, heavy and in the way as it always will be, is the least of their troubles!


Mercguy, when the first Cobras came out, and I'm thinking back to '79 or '80, (or were those not Cobras????) They changed the drive to through hub, but still used the pawl style connection. So please correct me here I may be off, were the first through hub exhaust OMC drive what you are calling the 400-800? Or was that the old drive that had the shape of the 100-S outboard gearbox????

what the hell were they thinking with the 400/800 series drives, when they decided it was best to trim the motor up and down ( a real pain in the rear to replace the trim motor and/or service the tilt mechanism/engine mount), versus the outdrive, other than saving the ball gears.....sheez!!!! Then add that big *** transom boot.........


SORRY Ron for "jacking" your thread...........

[mercguy]

Ok, walk me through this process. First remove the old excrement sitting under the engine hood and take the Cobra to the spare parts pile for those who have broken ones.

Remove any motor mounts and stringers not needed from when the engine was yanked....

Cut, from the inside of the boat, the layers of transom and then get a sheet of 5-1/4 roof sheeting, and prepare to Gorilla glue another sheet of 1/2" plywood....Get some fiberglass, and goober that baby together, after you have decided how high to cut your transom. Paint as necessary....

Sound about right????

but, I would just fill in the old outdrive mounting hole and mount an "off shore" type bracket off the transom, which would move the outboard alot farther back and give a speed advantage.......

[Skoontz]

Rick Yurs of the local funeral home got a new Cruisers, Inc lapstraked boat for graduating college. Avocado green and all grain sealed, that thing shined like a Stienway grand piano. It was powered by, get this....A 90HP OMC V-4, on that older club foot drive. Every year, they brought it in with carb troubles, the inline 4 barrel on the 90HP outboard blew chunks as a side draft, but when OMC converted them to updraft (the carb faced the boat bottom) imagine the horrors, especially the way the stern drive boat manufacturers loved to stuff them in in order to gain more boat space....

Dad gove me the chore of standing on my head in the engine compartment with 4 extentions on a 1/4" snap -on socket wrench with 3 u-joints between each extension. That carb had about 14- 3/8" bolts holding it on and you could only get 1/4 turn from each one....There was no space to put a fuel shut off to run the carb dry when it was stored, so the varnish would build every year.... It was a $300.00 carb rebuild in the 60's.....

[Skoontz]

but, I would just fill in the old outdrive mounting hole and mount and "off shore" type bracket off the transom, which would move the outboard alot farther back and give an advantage.......
__________________


Ahhh, the cantilever approach....Since the 150 E-tech has set a kilo record, I'm thinking this is the stock engine for this 16' boat.....

[mercguy]

but, I would just fill in the old outdrive mounting hole and mount and "off shore" type bracket off the transom, which would move the outboard alot farther back and give an advantage.......
__________________


Ahhh, the cantilever approach....Since the 150 E-tech has set a kilo record, I'm thinking this is the stock engine for this 16' boat.....


true, if they had $10,000-$15,000 to spend on an E-tec...............but, it is a sweet motor............if ya want one, we have several in stock (90-250).........;)

[mercguy]

Rick Yurs of the local funeral home got a new Cruisers, Inc lapstraked boat for graduating college. Avocado green and all grain sealed, that thing shined like a Stienway grand piano. It was powered by, get this....A 90HP OMC V-4, on that older club foot drive. Every year, they brought it in with carb troubles, the inline 4 barrel on the 90HP outboard blew chunks as a side draft, but when OMC converted them to updraft (the carb faced the boat bottom) imagine the horrors, especially the way the stern drive boat manufacturers loved to stuff them in in order to gain more boat space....

Dad gove me the chore of standing on my head in the engine compartment with 4 extentions on a 1/4" snap -on socket wrench with 3 u-joints between each extension. That carb had about 14- 3/8" bolts holding it on and you could only get 1/4 turn from each one....There was no space to put a fuel shut off to run the carb dry when it was stored, so the varnish would build every year.... It was a $300.00 carb rebuild in the 60's.....

glad there are not too many of those "things" still around..................:eek:

[Skoontz]

true, if they had $10,000-$15,000 to spend on an E-tec...............but, it is a sweet motor............if ya want one, we have several in stock (90-250).........


What kind of money are we talking for a 150 stock, and then with a hot dog gearbox???? I guessing about 12K....About what I am budgeting for next year....

[capnzee]

somewhere, somehow, you guys have really "drifted" from the original thread-lets get back to the basics or scratch the thread!

[Ron Hill]

Just becasues, down deep you don't like WACKERS......CAPNZEE....Doesn't mean people can't post about them.....

When are you picking up your D'Cucci???

[Skoontz]

Adrift, yes, but, on the topic of lower unit powered boats in general, and the issues they all have, directly pertainate to the D'Cucci with lower unit drive......

As far as OMC 4 bangers go.....They used to run 135 cubic inch Chevy ll motors. Chevy kept them well iinto production until 1995 or so, they were run in fork lifts, boats, milk trucks, and there was some component manufactured construction tractor I beleive Massy Fergueson before Perkins bought them. My uncle had 3 water pumps with them for power as well as a generator. Excellent engine I might add. They may have changed to Ford after I drifted away from the business for a while....

[Moneypit]

What cu in is in all the mail trucks? Those are 4 cylinder Chevys?? Right?....MP

[mercguy]

Adrift, yes, but, on the topic of lower unit powered boats in general, and the issues they all have, directly pertainate to the D'Cucci with lower unit drive......

As far as OMC 4 bangers go.....They used to run 135 cubic inch Chevy ll motors. Chevy kept them well iinto production until 1995 or so, they were run in fork lifts, boats, milk trucks, and there was some component manufactured construction tractor I beleive Massy Fergueson before Perkins bought them. My uncle had 3 water pumps with them for power as well as a generator. Excellent engine I might add. They may have changed to Ford after I drifted away from the business for a while....

the 4cyl Chevy's that OMC and Merc used since the mid 60's were the 2.5L (1964-1989), which was 120hp and the 3.0L (1968-current), which is still used today by both Merc and Volvo (who took over the OMC sterndrive), which is/was rated at 130-140hp. The 3.0L short blocks are still being made in Mexico.......prior to the Chevy, for Mercruiser, the 4cyl was a Renault.

[mercguy]

true, if they had $10,000-$15,000 to spend on an E-tec...............but, it is a sweet motor............if ya want one, we have several in stock (90-250).........


What kind of money are we talking for a 150 stock, and then with a hot dog gearbox???? I guessing about 12K....About what I am budgeting for next year....

not sure of the pricing, as I do not like talking to salesmen!!:p

but, sounds like the motor you would be after is the E-Tec 150 HO..........which has the high speed lower unit........

[Skoontz]

In '82, the next phase of the Nazi air requirements took effect. GM could not get the 135 cubic inch version to pull enough power in the lower compresion choked down version, so, they punched it to 152, called it a 150, and made the grade. And yep, that's the motor in the mail trucks too. Amazing how GM has gotten nearly 50 years from the 292 six, still installed in UPS vans, and and 44 years out of the same block used in the Chevy ll's....

[Ron Hill]

Here are some pictures of the boats..He has four, but there are five at the shop...

We think we'll pick up the STACKER traile next week...

Division I, LOOK OUT!!!!

[capnzee]

Al Thompson has "heard" about the D'cucci boats and is planning a trip over to Joey's place today. Al wants to drive with his son-in-law Gilly, and his son Todd in next years Enduro. Al has driven many a race boat in the past and the Enduro has "tickled" his fancy! Capnzee

[Skoontz]

How much for one of those without the Pinto engine or the Cobra? I'm thinking an E-tec 150HO sitting on a 1' offset transom cantilever could see some serious MPH.....And flat bottom? That's about what the Switzer
Super Sport had on it and those were V's....

[capnzee]

I believe that all of Joey's boats are already equipped with the engine and outdrive. He would not want to sell them without. His dad had been working with APBA some 20 years ago to get a "formula" class going using the OMC engines and outdrives. This is as far as it got! They are getting more interest now than they did in the past because of the Division I class of the Parker 300. A great place for the "little guy" to get started without having to mortgage his house! I've heard that you are hard pressed to get a stock "C" engine on a boat you can't even start yourself for fear of sinking or capsizing for the price Joey is asking for his "formula" vee Division I boats. Seems like a no-brainer. Capnzee

[fyremanbill]

How much is he asking for the boats? Are they all in the same condition?

[Ron Hill]

I had a very enjoyable day at Lake Havasu, yesterday. Don Cucci and Joey Cucci are both very amazing people....And so is Joey's mother...

But, I didn't pick up any of the boats......I will, but in a week or two...

Was it George Carlin who talked about "Stuff"?? Well, Joey and his dad have "STUFF" and until they move some "STUFF", I won't be able to get to these D'Cucci boats...

The black boat is a new D'Cucci Super Stock....

Top picture is Joey's yard....if you notice, the Cobra Boats are at the back....and Harris was NO HELP, he was sick....Twi weeks, I'm going back to get these boats...

Racing pictures are at Valleyfield...

[fyremanbill]

Hey Ron, I'll be in the area in 2 weeks. Need any help?

[Moneypit]

Ron, the black hull is a K boat, not a SS er.......Chad of SS33 fame is the proud owner of that beauty, and the SS33 boat is for sale.............MP

[Ron Hill]

After starting this "PROJECT" I realized that the COBRA driver were only 4 inch cases...The big COBRAS had 4 1/2 which is the same as Mercruiser...

So, here's the plan....

1...Lower the motor in the boat. (6 inches)
2. Fabricated a belt drive, somewhat like Arneson uses chains for his drives...
3. Raise the drive (4 or 5 inches)....
4. Switch drive to Alpha

I've lined up about seven Alpha drives already...

[Bill Gohr]

Wow, what a thread, from 2.3L cobras to 90hpDU's. I forgot all about these boats. I remember Goat having one out back and working on it. I don't know if those were Pinto motors, but I do know it was the same motor that was in my T Bird Turbo coupe back in 88'. I beat the crap out of that car and it lived, We always thought I would break the motor when I turned the turbo up, my reply was always, "who cares. I'll just go out back and get another one. Those were always in stock because they didn't break much.

Why OMC had to use that engine was beyond me, FOREVER, everone used the old 153cu. in. ChevyII motor, then they made the 181cu. in. version which we could never keep in stock because the midget guys would always buy them and use them for cheater motors. I guess that 181 motor was only made for marine use and it took the officials along time to figure out that they existed. Then people would confuse them with the "Iron Duke" which was the 151cu. engine.

But there again OMC was always coming up with "different" power plants, want to talk about "bad choices", think about the buick V6, 150 and 155hp. Woops, try again.

How did you get on the DU topic? What an abortion, a 90hp V4 laying on its side, and yes that was a very interesting carb, as well as being the first oil injected unit. Remember that circle jerk?

Ron, why change that lower? That 2.3 lower was nothing more than a V4 gearcase. The only thing that was wrong with those early Cobra lowers was the shift cable be sure to replace it. Remember the great shift cable recall??? We bit the bullet on those for years. Our vendor, ACCO, assembled them wrong, didn't crimp them right, and they would pull apart and waste the lowers, take out the gears and C Dogs. Nothing wrong with the lowers, just bad cables. We got a bad wrap on those outdrives because of that that never went away.

Take one of those boats and go to the bone yard and find an 88TBird and transplant all the Turbo stuff on it, that will make it more fun.............

[Ron Hill]

Hey Bill... Thanks for your post and thanks for your enthusiasm.... Ernie Dawe and drove 5,000 miles in five days to pick up my Laser...and double tow a 45 Hoffman...

Ernie and I have been friends for 50 years. He was on APBA's BOD for 26 years, I think...Between Ernie and I we've worked TRYING to promote boat racing, most of our lives.

We've sold ads for the club paper, we sold trophy sponsors, we put most of our friends, family and colleagues in race boats over the years. Truth is, both Ernie and myself love boat racing as much today as we did 50 years ago...

The sport hasn't grown and both of us wonder if we aren't part of the problem. Ernie has built several hundred boats and won many Nationals with his boats...I've built s many propellers and I've won Nationals with my props... Without bragging, most of our wins came from HARD work. And as I tell Erine, today, that boat racing is too difficult...

But both of us REALIZE that most people in the WORLD don't understand two strokes....Inboard Outboards is about the only boats you see anymore, until it is Classic Flat Bottom v-Drives...

When you drive 5,000 miles in five days you talk and listen...we talked how could we GROW the sport of Boat Racing??? Price wise Kneeldowns make sense...But who want to pull a string to start a motor and then drive a boat that their grandfather had as a KID???

I suggested that "CLASSIC" anything is very popular right now, and maybe a name change from Kneeldowners to Classic Outboards would make sense...

Then, we discussed the downward spiral of TUNNEL Boats. Even though Ernie's son runs 45 and both my sons are running 45. Withour Ross's Western Formula Lites Series, 45 would not be strong out west....But we both admit, not everyone can work on a 45 eninge and they are tuff to prop with the 1:1 gears...

Then, we talked about how much money is spend on desert toys and how about a million people go to Glamis at Thanksgiving, driving DIESEL PUSHINGS with trailers full of TOYS... And we both added, not a two stroke out there anymore..or few at best...

Then, I said, "Remember Jay Root's Scotti tunnel with that Merc Crusier??? I said that thing ran great....Ernie said how about a hydro with a little sterndrive??? I said, "Hey, Don Cucci has four or five of them OMC COBRA BOATS he's offered to me cheap....

I said, " Well, they could be Division I boat, they could be used for river racing and maybe people would think theyu could work on the four stroke motor..." So, we drove a few thousand more miles and I called Paul Gritchasr to ask about the PNTO...." Paul offered to go through the motors and help get them running and added they'd be LEGAL Nostalgia Endurance...So no one class needed..." I then told Ernie, "When we get home, I'll go get one or two of THEM D'cucci boats and figure it out..." In the mean time, Rod Zapf said he'd take one...Ben Marrone and Paul Gritchar o are taking one, Jim Wilkes says he's got several Pintosa around and I want one...Four boats, ready to "ROCK"....

Why drop the COBRA??? Let's DREAm that these four boats actually go fast and work perfect. Where do we get anymore Cobra drives with V04 housings... (Right now the pan is 7 inches off the bottom and the propshaft is 5 inches below the bottom... Need to raise the propshaft about 4 inch withoutt raising the motor, but if we rasie the drive, might as well lower the engine...6-7 inches.

Between two boat shops, I've found 5 Alpha drives.

Joey Cucci has the molds still for these boats.


If I bulit and cool set up, to raise the outdrive and lower the motor, with a 14 inch set back... Anyone could build a Pinto powered Alpha drive drive boat....

Right now the OMC Cobras go 55 MPH. We'd like to go 75 MPH... Parity, as these OMC's would be faster than the Alpha's and where can we find parts for free or cheap???

Hey, I don't know....

[Bill Gohr]

those lowers are nothing but outboard lowers so all the parts except for the vertical shaft from 79 and up will go in them, I've never seen an upper go, those parts around here are a dime a dozen.

If you put the alpha in there the propshaft will automatiacally be 3/4 of an inch lower.

find a turbo......................

[Ron Hill]

But, I've been told these motors run with a TURBO..... and RUN and RUN...Not, just by you...

[Barry Strawn]

If you need help with the 2.3 Fords, Don Esslinger is the man. They are in El Monte.

http://esslingerracing.com/index.htm

[Skoontz]

Ron:

Having been converted to Dessert Rat from Illinois Mudslinger, I can and will tell you....The people who are SERIOUS about off roading run two strokes, the people who just want to run headache free run 4 strokers. I have come to the conclusion that dune buggies are the biggest waste of money AND reason for not enjoying off roading, because every one of the hunks of crap breaks. I went to Occotillo Wells after turkey day with a generator, my mig welder and some steel and brought home $4,300.00 between trail rides....

Why for the life of me these people don't get a new E-tec and clamp on style boat for half the money and run all weekend headache free with no welds to break is far beyond me.....The same knit wit who spends 150K on a Z-06 sand rail with 26" travel would drop 400K on a break every 3 hours suck the fuel depot down off shore boat and never recognize the enjoyment at a fraction of the cost he passed up. It's sort of like what I sell as a contractor, and God bless that attitude...They want it all, see what they got, look what I have. To most outboards are not impressive. The reason for that, is, they never had a child hood like you or I and many on this forum have ever had... Car engines belong in cars, outboards belong in boats, but try selling that to the public....

I have recently read numerous articles about boatings hay days in the 40's, 50's and 60's....How Chris Craft turned an expensive hobby into an affordable pastime...But then, as a history teacher, you shoud know...We had the baby boomers, the heros returning from the war, and the romance of living the dream of flying along on the last frontier, the water....It's been shattered by NIMBY's, liberal whack jobs, morons, and freeken no wake zones....Still, I live the days of my Switzer dancing on the transom, the scream of a V-4 making what Ferrari owners call, "the music". at least in my ears, and the joy of eating, and spitting out any black colored outboard on the same boat.... It don't get any better than that.

I say D'cucci, and 150HO hung on a 1' cantilevered transom and you'll see 80, but then there is this little issue with 15K.......

[ONCB]

All very interesting, but how did the v-bottom boat handle at speed. I am told they didnt! Even with it's P-power, it had some kind of issue when more power-speed was applied, anyone hear this? Heard this at Phoenix while talking to the SS53 folks.

[Skoontz]

Having run almost all Vee boats the only issue I could imagine is the usual chine walk, you know, air em out, lift up up, and, you need to correctively counter steer the boats or they slap chines. With an outboard, solid motor mounts and centered steering helps considerably....The lower unit boat on a V sounds very intreguing

[Ron Hill]

I want to stay with side steering...River "PLAY" boats use side steering. Nascar has side steering....

With that side, I feel raising the drive and setting it back 14 inches will do two thinks: One, effectively lengthen the boat by a foot...

Two, with extra power, the higher drive won't push the bow down ....(Let the boat fly).

Lowering the engine's CG by 6-7 inches, this should make the boat less top hjeavy...

Going to an Alpha Drive will allow for a 14 1/2 diameter...prop and plan to use some cool four and five blades...

Worst case, we redesign the hull...she does have sharp chines, no chines, up front...

[Dago Fast]

those lowers are nothing but outboard lowers so all the parts except for the vertical shaft from 79 and up will go in them, I've never seen an upper go, those parts around here are a dime a dozen.

If you put the alpha in there the propshaft will automatiacally be 3/4 of an inch lower.

find a turbo......................

Bill or anyone. Any idea how to adapt a turbo to this engine with the wet exhaust?

[Skoontz]

Dago:

They run those motors in formula 1000 open wheel SCCA cars up at Elkart Lake. The exhausts on the boats in the pictures are dry, over the transom. What you might have to do is change the header to a down tube style, bolt the turbo at the flange, then run the exhaust pipe up and over the transom, or put a flapper through the transom. The way those exhausts are, the turbo would go over the transom.... Cool idea though!

[fyremanbill]

Don't know how to do it with a wet exhaust, but Ford made a million of them with turbos. You could just use the factory manifold and turbo.

[Ron Hill]

I heard that Frank Banducci and Gloria bought the Pink D'Cucci with flames....(The one I WANTED)...and are picking it up in Havasu...

And that Stew Townend put a deposit on the fourth one for Jim Breslin... So, there will be four (4) Formula Fords racing in Region 11 in 2007...

There are still two Formula Fords for sale in Havasu. I'm making some props and will loan them to these four RACERS!!!

D'Cucci still has the molds if someone wanted a new boat...

Joey Cucci said he was only 12, in 1988 when he drove "THE PINK ONE" in Valleyfield...