A Combined, Cooperative Plan

[Ron Hill]

For The Future

By Ernie Dawe, 1995

It is time for the SORC to present to the Stock Outboarding community a plan for leading small outboard boat racing into the future. Recent developments have made it imperative that the SRC be willing to make some difficult decisions in order for the sport of small outboarding, as we know it, to be viable. We cannot afford to sit and take a "wait and see attitude." We must sieze the initiative and actively pursue the items needed to keep this sport alive. With the withdrawal of Mercury and OMC from the manufacturing of small outboard racing motors, we are definitely faced with a dilemma. I feel that we must meet this dilemma head on. In fact, I'm going to offer the following suggestions to overcome this immediate problem which would ultimately make the sport grow. In addition, I ask for your thoughts and ideas.

how would th combination work? Currently there are 14 Stock Classes abd 13 Mod Classes. After the combination, there would be 8 Stock classes and 12 Mod Classes.

MOre Ernie Dawe, 1995, later...

The main problem we face is lack of available equipment (motors), with the exception of Yamato. It becomes a major concern to find new equipment of some kind to fill the void. At the same time we have some large classesin which we can keep the motors runing for years. We do not want to kill these classes nor do we want to lose members. We must have a vehicle that allows us to run new or currently available equipment yet does not chase away the old equipment that many of our members have at this time. This vehicle is not available u nder our current structure of the exixting categories of APBA.

My first proposal would be to combine the Stock and Mod categories in order to provide a vehicle to do what I described above. We should probably have a new name for the category (Ron Hill adds: "CLASSIC OUTBOARDS")....and the two divisions within the new category to dispel any petty jealousies that might exist. Some of the Stock members make think the proposal gives too much to the Mod category. I don't look at it as giving anything. We are creating a new category out of owhat once existed. We will all be part of this new category and the old designations will have to be forgotten. The plan to use the current categories to make it work, not pit one against the other.

[Neil_M50D2]

Seems to me that the cause for the decline in stock racing revolves largely around the lack of new engines and the unwillingness by the racers to bring new engines to the sport. Everyone wants to run their old engines without competition from new engines. That makes it very difficult for new racers to join the sport. Soon the only small engines commercially available will all be 4-cycle. Importing 2-cycle engines for competition purposes is made difficult by EPA, and even more difficult to be approved by APBA. So let's make a big jump.

The long-term solution is to recognize the 4-cycle engine as today’s engine. Run them as they are sold with the stock lower unit or allow an aftermarket racing lower unit. Recognize the fact that engines will be heavier and boats will need to be designed for the increased weight.

I think this solution would put stock racing back where it originated. Showroom available engines, engines that everyone recognizes and can purchase.

Neil Bass

[Skoontz]

Neil:

Though I have no choice but the accept what you mentioned, I think another alternative would be for anyone who cares enough about the two troke engines to make a stand. It is fact that direct injection 2 strokes pollute less than 4 strokes, with no oil to worry about diposing. They also run alot better.

There has to be a way if enough people, and you can combine outboard motor, snowmobile, off road, and lawn and garden industry pros to pool together with enough money to buy polliticians just like those who would/are profiting from the sale of 4 stroke turds do.

Though it may be the way, the though of hearing a bunch of overhead cam twisting outboards is enough at this time to make me puke. I don't want the 4 stroke to be the only choice boat racers, and high speed pleasure boaters have to choose.

[Ron Hill]

BUT, Neil, what Ernie basically said, was that NEW MOTORS should go to Stock Classes, OLD MOTORS would go to MOD CLASSES, combining different engines, in MOD without increasing the number of classes...

I agree with you 100 per cent about using new motors off the dealer's showroom floor....

Three or Four things here:

1. You and I both make things (engine/parts/props), I doubt anyone besides Greg Jacobson, Mercury Racing, Tom Moulder, myself and anyone who has ever tried to sell RACING PARTS and make money... (What I'm saying is that WE can see how easy it would be for new people to buy a new motor and start racing......

2. Three years Christmas vacation, I decided I'd buy me a 44 XS. I thought I'd get me a D Runabout and maybe race the Stock Nationals....I spent two weeks TRYING to find all the parts to put a motor together...I never got a motor...Two weeks on the computer...one person made cowlings, somebody might have powerheads, someone had gears...Finnally, I said, why don't I just go boating in my ski boat? Turn the key and go!!!

3. Fat C: I've spent a year trying to get a boat on the water....I have powerheads. but everything else has come slowly.....The Fat C motor is a 45 SS type mid section, I've made all the parts for the center section, including molds....I've probaly got $10,000 in the molds and parts and have sold no parts to speak of.... I have sold 12 nose cones and 50 props...but the props and nose cone go on STOCK SHOWROOM MOTORS...(No go on, went on)...

4. Chad will be 30 August 2nd, this year. I was at John's Custom Marine, this week, talking to Al Stoker. He had just sold his Mark 30-H that he'd bought from me 32 years ago. He had not raced it since the 1977 Stock Nationals.... John's was a Chrysler dealer and they sponsored Al's racing. He won the 36 Nationals, the last year they had 36.

The only TRUE stock class in Stock was dropped and California lost thier club as a result. Dan Schwarzenbach's Apple Valley Marine was a Chrysler dealer and he kept all the motors, except Stokers, going for almost FREE. These 36 DRIVERS/RACERS were all club officers....

When 36 was dropped as a class, only one, maybe two went to another class. STOCK OUTBOARD RACING SHOULD HAVE DROPPED ALL THE OTHER CLASSES BUT 36...

5. When Chad was 9, OMC made the 45 and 15 A, because Ernie Dawe and myself, had started C-NOD....(An Addictor with a BOX STOCK TOHATSU)...45's and 15A's were sold ONLY through Second Effort.

I bought about 18 Johnsons from dealers, by trading props, and selling the motors cheaper than Second Effort....(I'd trade $1,500 WORTH OF PROPS FOR A $1,500 MOTOR) Then, I'd resell the motor for $1,000. NorCal and Washingon state still have mostly Johnson 15A's because they came through me....

But, at the time Chad was racing J, Action Boats in Huntington Beach, was buying many props from me and Ray Guy, owner of Action Boats, asked my son, Chad, a question about a motor he was looking at, and I answered he knew what the motor was, as he races them....Ray said, "Your kid races 15 Johnsons??? I'll get you a knew one." A week later, Ray calls me and said, "Well, I can't get a NEW MOTOR, I have to BUY the Racing Motor through Second Effort. Sorry I offered a free motor, but I hought I could get a NEw motor, you could use it all year, and I'd sell it and get you a new one.....But, I don't want to spend close to $2,000 TO HAVE YOU RUNNING AN old ENGINE, THAT I CAN'T RESELL...

If you remember, the 15 A Evinrudes and Johnsons never had but one cowling...


Bottom Line with my stories: There is a need for Several STOCK CLASSES.

I'd suggest: BRF'S Stock Outboard Classes:

15 S Classic Outboard

1. 15 Stock Motor: Division I (2 Stroke) and Division II (4 stroke)
2. One Designed Boat or at least hull general rules.
3. Any Prop
4. 1 3/8op shaft height
5. Overall weight??

25 S

1. 25 HP 2000 Division I (Mini GT basically) and Division II (4 Stroke)
2. Mini GT Hull Size
3. Any prop
4. Overall weight???
4. Prop shaft 3/4 above the bottom (s)

ADD;

AL STOKER

When Al stopped racing kneeldowns, he raced a SHOWROOM STOCK Evinrude 200. The class Al BASICALLY started was called MOD VP. Al is still considered by me and many others to be THE UNDISPUTED KING of MOD VP. What made MOD VP THE BIGGEST CLASS IN APBA was STOCK MOTORS....or at least they parts could be purchased from a dealer. The class headed for the DUMPSTER when Evinrude and Mercury made CUSTOM RACE MOTORS for this class...

Last ADD:

I've basically watched NASCAR since 1973, maybe 1972, but only watched two or three races this year....Looks like IROC...What happened to the "S" in NASCAR? "S" was for Stock. WHERE ARE THE MONTE CARLOS LIKE CAYAL YARBOROUGH. What happen to the Dodges that The King drove? I can't tell a Ford from a Toyota. They've lost me......

[Mark75H]

I have a suggestion, since it always pretty much looks like APBA racers will not accept these classes, start them outside of APBA, by going AOF or God forbid ... Outlaw. Once there is a following for the classes, then they can be folded in.

I like the mini GT idea, I also like the Fat C concept. I think APBA racers unknowingly killed their own classes by evolving the boats into flat water, no wind racers ... they did not start out that way.

[Neil_M50D2]

There are regulations that allow for competition exclusions issued by EPA. However, EPA makes everything more difficult, more time consuming, and comes with more liability. If Sid were to pay me for my time coordinating with EPA, the prices would certainly go up. That set aside, I agree with all of the above.

Politics and the human selfish ambitions are the faults we see. AOF and NBRA seem to be more interested in the thrill of racing than the thrill of having control. If the AOF and NBRA folks can keep it together, that is probably the way to go.

Neil

[Skoontz]

In 10 days, I have the displeasure of sitting at a C.A.R.B. meeting directed toward off road equipment. At which, every tractor I own over 50 HP will have to be registered with the nazis. At which time, every tractor I own over 250HP not of tier 2 design, will have to be retrofitted with some Draconian device that is supposed to make diesels more air friendly at a cost of $5,000 per tractor. The only way to counter knitwittery is with counter tactics, and unfortunately, money. Every set of carefully slanted criteria the EPA uses, has an equal but opposite set of criteria which can easily show the truth.

That said, APBA, and all otther organizations needs tot hink long and hard about adding a small fee on dues which is decidated for a politcal action committee and or lobbyist to show that truth or everyone who wants to race or go fast in a pleasure boat will be rewinding big rubber bands to boat after EPA decides 4 strokes pollute too much as well. OMC conducted a study about 1967 when outboards still ran 25-1 that said it would take 73 boats running full throttle per acre of water to make any sort of impact on evnvironment.

I am beginning to hate politics, but if we don't want big brother telling us what how and when, we the people must speak with money.

How this will relate, is by making production costs less by easing up air non sense, there will in fact be a larger gene pool of motors to choose at a lessor cost.

[Neil_M50D2]

Think about it, if the big industry cannot manage the environmental extreamists, the few or even many of us are not going to have any impact at all, even if we each throw in $5000 for the cause. Therefore, my suggestion to go with the flow and develop 4-cycle off-the-shelf engine classes. There is always the pro classes if you really want a 2-cycle and speed. I do not foresee that as a future problem. EPA does not like anything the even looks like a potential fishing powerhead.

By the way, we will continue to import the Tohatsu M50D2 for D-stock. EPA has to work a lot harder to bet me on that.

Neil Bass

[Joe J]

Neil:

The other thing the Pro category has in it's favor is a much cleaner fule and oil combination. Although I do not see the other categories going this direction, it would sure solve a lot of problems.

Joe Johnson

Think about it, if the big industry cannot manage the environmental extreamists, the few or even many of us are not going to have any impact at all, even if we each throw in $5000 for the cause. Therefore, my suggestion to go with the flow and develop 4-cycle off-the-shelf engine classes. There is always the pro classes if you really want a 2-cycle and speed. I do not foresee that as a future problem. EPA does not like anything the even looks like a potential fishing powerhead.

By the way, we will continue to import the Tohatsu M50D2 for D-stock. EPA has to work a lot harder to bet me on that.

Neil Bass

[David Weaver]

Neil:

The other thing the Pro category has in it's favor is a much cleaner fule and oil combination. Although I do not see the other categories going this direction, it would sure solve a lot of problems.

Joe Johnson

Good point Joe. Plus the pops skimming across the water at high RPM's is very good for the condition/quality of water (especially in small to mid-size lakes). Last year, the USTS began using the concept of green racing with potential races sites. One member even took it upon himself to conduct water quality sampling and tests before, during and after an event in Florida. The results were favorable (obviously not conclusive). There are other area's where the USTS and the PRO division are considering "green" intiaitives. Type of fuel to use is high on that list.

[Skoontz]

Big industry has essentailly sold out to the EPA and is going this way because a larger prize has been promised. As 4 stroke outboards begin to flood the market, people will stop buying them, and you can see the trend now in boat/engine combination sales. Anything with I/O or inboard power tends to hold it's value, while anything with outboard power can barely be given away. Why is beyond me, as with any cast iron block or dead weight sitting in the center of a boat, you loose valuable space, while an outboard gives you usaable space for alot less money and far more dependability.

Since inboard profits are higher, I beleive the focus of manufacturers will be there and if they are allowed to have their way, EPA will cause 2 strokes to disapear. A grss root effort however, can create a voice that fat overbearing crooked as hell slobs we call politicians would have to listen to, if numbers brought votes. Once again, money....Somehow, it must be communicated to the general public, the amount of money EPA wastes every single day...Like the office in D.C. they have, leased from the Agnew family of the Nixon era in some under the table deal...Air inside so polluted everyone works from their homes....One would think a building full of EPA lawyers would eb able to find a way to break a lease under those circumstances....Yet, we still pay the lease...And etc.

I'm sidetracking here, but not really. When everyone here talks of running 4 strokes, all I hear in my head is Jimbo's V-4 SS motor screaming around the course, or John Wayne Janaky's V-6 so far ahead of the Merc jerks there is no chance they would catch him....Or the legendary rotary's passing inboards so fast they did not know what ever hit them.... Call it the past, but those sounds are big part of what people come watch boat races over. It might be easy to grab an off the shelf engine, but as soon as that happens, under the 4 stroke sounds, the thrill is gone....BB King making Lucielle the 19th cry like a baby.....

[mercguy]

Big industry has essentailly sold out to the EPA and is going this way because a larger prize has been promised. As 4 stroke outboards begin to flood the market, people will stop buying them, and you can see the trend now in boat/engine combination sales. Anything with I/O or inboard power tends to hold it's value, while anything with outboard power can barely be given away. Why is beyond me, as with any cast iron block or dead weight sitting in the center of a boat, you loose valuable space, while an outboard gives you usaable space for alot less money and far more dependability.

Since inboard profits are higher, I beleive the focus of manufacturers will be there and if they are allowed to have their way, EPA will cause 2 strokes to disapear. A grss root effort however, can create a voice that fat overbearing crooked as hell slobs we call politicians would have to listen to, if numbers brought votes. Once again, money....Somehow, it must be communicated to the general public, the amount of money EPA wastes every single day...Like the office in D.C. they have, leased from the Agnew family of the Nixon era in some under the table deal...Air inside so polluted everyone works from their homes....One would think a building full of EPA lawyers would eb able to find a way to break a lease under those circumstances....Yet, we still pay the lease...And etc.

I'm sidetracking here, but not really. When everyone here talks of running 4 strokes, all I hear in my head is Jimbo's V-4 SS motor screaming around the course, or John Wayne Janaky's V-6 so far ahead of the Merc jerks there is no chance they would catch him....Or the legendary rotary's passing inboards so fast they did not know what ever hit them.... Call it the past, but those sounds are big part of what people come watch boat races over. It might be easy to grab an off the shelf engine, but as soon as that happens, under the 4 stroke sounds, the thrill is gone....BB King making Lucielle the 19th cry like a baby.....


you say "while an outboard gives you usaable space for alot less money and far more dependability."

......well, that is sort of true, but todays outboards do cost more than comparable inboards. More people buy inboard boats because they cost less than the same boat outboard powered. Yes and no, as to the reliability issue you stated, it ALL depends on how the OWNER mantains it. Outboards cost more, because there is ALOT more invested in outboard manufacturing, versus relying on GM or another automotive engine manufacturer to develop the "basic" inboard motor. As to your statement of the EPA eliminating all 2 strokes, well that remains to be seen, as some of the current 2 strokes (Optimax's and E-tecs) have better emissions reports than 4 strokes.

now, to 4strokes in the future of outboard racing, probably so, but it will be an inspectors nightmare..................

[Neil_M50D2]

Daren, I think you are right about the efficiency and environmental cleanliness of injected two strokes. However, I do not see available injected two strokes available in the 10 to 30HP range, possibly because of manufacturing cost. If they become an available product readily available to the public, that could be the way to go. We chose not to use the EPA approved 50HP Tohatsu injected model for several reasons. Some main reasons, (1) they cost more, (2) they are more complex, (3) it would be necessary to modify the approved exhaust system to fit on the short tower, hence EPA approval anyway, (4) they have not been raced or tested at 7000 RPM.

Nothing non-standard is ever simple, therefore I firmly recommend looking to the commercially available products. More racers can therefore become involved.

An inspector’s nightmare, ooooo yes! But our inspector system is already inadequate. Maybe we need to put a load disk on the first three finishers and if they exceed a specified performance, they are out. Currently there are too many ways for stockers cheat. If someone likes the engine modification and building function of racing, go Pro. Pro happens to be my bend, but points and winning was never a big thing. Did the changes made in the shop make it go faster was a big thing. Mostly turned out to be “did it run”.
Neil

[mercguy]

Daren, I think you are right about the efficiency and environmental cleanliness of injected two strokes. However, I do not see available injected two strokes available in the 10 to 30HP range, possibly because of manufacturing cost. If they become an available product readily available to the public, that could be the way to go. We chose not to use the EPA approved 50HP Tohatsu injected model for several reasons. Some main reasons, (1) they cost more, (2) they are more complex, (3) it would be necessary to modify the approved exhaust system to fit on the short tower, hence EPA approval anyway, (4) they have not been raced or tested at 7000 RPM.

Nothing non-standard is ever simple, therefore I firmly recommend looking to the commercially available products. More racers can therefore become involved.

An inspector’s nightmare, ooooo yes! But our inspector system is already inadequate. Maybe we need to put a load disk on the first three finishers and if they exceed a specified performance, they are out. Currently there are too many ways for stockers cheat. If someone likes the engine modification and building function of racing, go Pro. Pro happens to be my bend, but points and winning was never a big thing. Did the changes made in the shop make it go faster was a big thing. Mostly turned out to be “did it run”.
Neil


although I hate to pat "Bombardier" on the shoulder for good work, I have to with the new E-TECS. Neil, they are working on a 9.9 up 30hp E-TECS (40's and above are already available) right now and expect to see them this year. These could be a viable solution also for new motors. Yes, more complex, but since they have a EMM (engine management computer), they could be similiar to the way CHAMP does it and have a "grab bag" of computers handed out at the races. But, for now, we gotta work with what is available and I love the Tohatsu!!!!:D

[Neil_M50D2]

I did not know these engines were being produced. Sounds like a real possibility for racing. Next problem, getting them into a class and using them! A problem you and I are familiar with.

Neil

[mercguy]

I did not know these engines were being produced. Sounds like a real possibility for racing. Next problem, getting them into a class and using them! A problem you and I are familiar with.

Neil

they are under "developement" or so, I am told. ..........

at times APBA is its own worse enemy.......

[Ron Hill]

I know that two five blade propellers are being tested on an E-Tec 60.

I had a very nice "CHAT" with Al Stoker about E-Tec motors. Seems he thinks inspecting them will be easy, because, if you change the motor, the computer that controls everything, will basically shut the engine off until the problem is fixed.

These E-Tec are making the 2006 air standards with ease and basically they are still two strokes.

Any word when the smaller motors will be out? Didn't ask Al, as I was asking about the 225 HP, really, but did discuss the smaller 40-60 a little... My propellers did not go to Al...


Here is a PROBLEM that I see....In 1955 when I raced AU, I had a 22 inch bottom. I went 42 and a half MPH. An A Hydro went about the same....Ellis Terrill and I ran the same props and went the same speed, cornered differently, but in 1956 we were both CLUB HIGH POINTS.

Broc Hill drove A Hydro at Parker, Thanksgiving, for the first time..57 MPH....Smaller boat than 1955 and of course went *** OVER TEA KETTLE in this A Hydro...I was going to let him try it again at Havasu Landing, but the race has been cancelled.....

Truth is before he will be a half way good driver in a 2007 A Hydro, he'll turn it over several more times......How many parents want their kid in a boat, when they know the kid will turn it over????

A 15 HP Outboard on a 20SS or C Hydro would go about 40.....A learner class.... I think Mini GT is something we need to PROMOTE!

[mercguy]

I know that two five blade propellers are being tested on an E-Tec 60.

I had a very nice "CHAT" with Al Stoker about E-Tec motors. Seems he thinks inspecting them will be easy, because, if you change the motor, the computer that controls everything, will basically shut the engine off until the problem is fixed.

These E-Tec are making the 2006 air standards with ease and basically they are still two strokes.

Any word when the smaller motors will be out? Didn't ask Al, as I was asking about the 225 HP, really, but did discuss the smaller 40-60 a little... My propellers did not go to Al...


Here is a PROBLEM that I see....In 1955 when I raced AU, I had a 22 inch bottom. I went 42 and a half MPH. An A Hydro went about the same....Ellis Terrill and I ran the same props and went the same speed, cornered differently, but in 1956 we were both CLUB HIGH POINTS.

Broc Hill drove A Hydro at Parker, Thanksgiving, for the first time..57 MPH....Smaller boat than 1955 and of course went *** OVER TEA KETTLE in this A Hydro...I was going to let him try it again at Havasu Landing, but the race has been cancelled.....

Truth is before he will be a half way good driver in a 2007 A Hydro, he'll turn it over several more times......How many parents want their kid in a boat, when they know the kid will turn it over????

A 15 HP Outboard on a 20SS or C Hydro would go about 40.....A learner class.... I think Mini GT is something we need to PROMOTE!


Ron says "basically they are still two strokes"

no basically about it, they ARE 2strokes!

[Ron Hill]

The gas never goes in the crankcase but how does the gas get in...Injected where....And why don't the rings stick with no oil in the head area???

[mercguy]

The gas never goes in the crankcase but how does the gas get in...Injected where....And why don't the rings stick with no oil in the head area???

the gas enters the top of the cylinders via the fuel injector and the oil is injected separately into each individual cylinder ........after the exhaust port is closed basically (so none wasted out to the environment)..........there is oil in the head aea.......it does not take as much oil as you think to keep everything lubed......

PS: this is just the basic description, it is slightly more entailed.......I do not like typing as much as you Ron!

[Ron Hill]

I'm just good at it....Got a "B" in high school typing, missed an "A" by one word per minute....Teacher would not let me look at my hands.....

So, the gas is directly injected into the cyclinder and air is sucked into the chamber....Well, other than working has does an E-Tec differ from a FICHT?

[mercguy]

I'm just good at it....Got a "B" in high school typing, missed an "A" by one word per minute....Teacher would not let me look at my hands.....

So, the gas is directly injected into the cyclinder and air is sucked into the chamber....Well, other than working has does an E-Tec differ from a FICHT?


big difference...............stronger built parts, better injection system and the main thing of all .........the EMM (computer)..........

PS: after typing about 1 paragraph, my hands start to hurt.....carpletunnel (spelling?)????

[Ron Hill]

I see a DYNO somewhat like I see a GPS....Great idea...Right now, the GPS is much easier to read than a DYNO......

Who would check the DYNO readings? We have 400 RPM differences in out own motors...How much HP differences would be allowed???