58,59,61??? 30H 55H questions

[crankbearing]

does anyone have actual photo's of any REAL 59-62 30/55H Motors - OEM.

I am restoring one of each right now and would like to see some details the parts book is not much help as it lumps everything together from all years.

I guess one for sure questions I have is that a 55A motor did not have chrome trim and a cast faceplate but the 61 motors for 62 I guess had chrome trim, chrome face plate and black with chrome trim around, but all the 59 55H motors copy motors I have seen have the chrome trim added.

I Know where there are two about 20 Miles from me in a basement, but unfortunately the guy is unapprochable due to the constant hounding of collectors trying to buy them from him.. I think his last statement was " If You ask one more time I will destroy them" I would love to call him and maybe go and snap some pitcures of them.. One is suppose to be brand new never fired. They were both purchased in 1958 for 1959 model year is what I have been told.

Regards,

[jon66w]

Go to Grubbs, link is http://www.oldmercs.com/
Go to model guide, on Mark 55 it gives specs and serial numbers for the 1955-56 models and serial numbers for the 1959 models. Then go to Mark 55 A. Believe powerhead will look like this picture but the faceplate will have "Mark 55 H" on it. They were painted cloud white.

[alan akerstrom]

In case it matters for what you're doing, the 55A is a 44 cube motor with the small carbs. Not 40 cube like the 55H. Made only in '59, the "A" year.

[Mark75H]

Yes, but the question is .... "Is the 1959 Mark55H-1 cowling exactly like its 1959 brothers, or is it a throw back to the original 1956 Mark 55H"? (Dave knows about the bore size differences, he is just asking about the delivered cosmetic trim.)

Dave, this is going to be hard to figure out with out some incidental pictures from 1959 and 1962. Probably won't be found for some time to come. As close as I can get is page viii of The Legend of Mercury with the 1962 Mark 30H ... chrome bands are present; but I do not know what the source of the pictures is or how accurate that motor is.

To my knowledge these motors had stealth releases and were not publicised so there are no "factory press release pictures"

[Ron Hill]

I was staying out of this because I didn't reall understand the quesation.....

But:

The Mark 30-H came out with small Mercury letters in red and white...don't know the names of the colors...

The 55-H came out with metalic green cowlings that we, in California, called "GO GREEN" because it was the same color as the stop lights...Thus "GO GREEN".

All true 30-H's and 55-H had anodized block blocks. The 55-H's had the same ports as the 20-H. All GO green 55-H's came with Holy Rods and non flat top pistons. and four port covers. The fishing Mark 55 had the same ports as the Mark 30...and were not legal as a 55-H.

All true 30-H's had black anodized blocks, but had the same ports as fishing Mark 30's.

I once had 20 Mark 30 blocks, I've always been into having enough parts, and I had my dad measure ports....Out of 20 blocks, there was no more than .002 difference in them all...(I had three Wizard blocks in this group)...

The White 55-H's, we always called them '59 55-H's came with three screw port covers, solid rods, and flat top pistons.....and what was called "BIG REED BLOCKS" but were in fact smaller... These 55-H's had the big starter and most had the small crankshaft (flywheel) as I recall.

Basically, these motors would have been winners had it not been for my OLD man, who build some ROPE STARTER KG-9's (High Compression) motors that kicked ***...

Now the 1959 Mark 30-H's were DOGS from the get go. They had a red, orange colored cowling, they had solid rods, flat top pistons, big crank top and three screw port covers., big reed blocks that were smaller...... The three screw port cover had NO crankcase pressure. These motors never sold and I think these are the ones that Waldman and Herring ended up with the mid sections and gearcases....

These 30-H's had largers stickers than the ORIGINAL 30-H's...

I'm not sure what the question was, but these are my memories of these motors...

I'll add here, that Wizard 30 cubic inch blocks were rumored to be high compression....I feel the only reason that Wizard blocks were high compression is the fact that Lon Stevens welded in "CUSTOM" heads...

[crankbearing]

Thanks,

I may have my dilemma ended. I got hold of the best friend of the guy that has the two motors above I mentioned and I may get a chance to go and view them.. The history after talking with the friend is that these motors were shipped from WI to 1 dealer only in Toronto and then the motors were picked up by the current owners father and they have been with the family ever since. Hunter Grimes senior was very good friends with the current owner's father they are TRUE 1959 55H-1 motors and with the bill of sale / Documentation to prove. so I am crossing my fingers.

Sam, Yes I saw the picture of that motor as well. That is the pic I scanned and posted here a while back. The only thing about that pic that does not make since is the wrap around, I have looked at our 61 model motors we have and none look like that Wrap around. Now maybe it is just a normal wrap painted black with the tips of chrome exposed, we will see.

regards,

[Mark75H]

Isn't it right for 1962?

[crankbearing]

Maybe your right, Sam!

I will check at the house today. There are a couple of 62's at the house in the back shed I will look.

Hey Sam,

If you look at Crackerboats photo's under the motor's section of the buy and sell. In the one pic that shows the overall collection on the left of the pic you see a 20H on a stand, behind that a Mark 50 I think and behind that is a square top motor that has the orange/red paint Ron is talking about. Now I have seen that color on a Mark 58A as well

As for Photo's the only photo I have ever seen is in Tack's collection of the Montreal Boat show in the fall of 1961 and it shows both the 30 and 55 h motors on the stage. But It is black and white and very hard to see but you call tell the difference between the gearcases.

Regards,

Regards,

[Mark75H]

I have seen 1959's with colors as well, but have always heard the 55H-1's were all white. 1962's other than the 100 were definitly white, except for the wrap ... a predicessor to the all black 63's

The motor behind the Mk50 does not appear to have a chrome handle on the top ... all white and colored motors should be round top with cast front cover/handle or chrome strip on the top that comes to handle at top front, right?

The chrome finished front top loop handle continued on the early black motors until later in the 1960's if I recall correctly.

[crackerboat]

I don't know if this is gonna help you. I can't find the face plate for the red motor. It's here I just can't put my hand on it. As I remember, I took it off at the test tank and from there think the CRS got involved. These motors are probably not correct anyway, this is how they came off the boats.

The other 55Hs and 30Hs I have are all older than you are restoring.

[Mark75H]

Thanks for the close ups. Neither of those appears to have a model/serial number plate on the clamps. Am I right or is the picture fooling me?

[crankbearing]

I don't know if this is gonna help you. I can't find the face plate for the red motor. It's here I just can't put my hand on it. As I remember, I took it off at the test tank and from there think the CRS got involved. These motors are probably not correct anyway, this is how they came off the boats.

The other 55Hs and 30Hs I have are all older than you are restoring.

So the red motor is a 30H!? I take it the handle from that motor would have been the all Aluminuim version instead of the chrome. I think this is what you are thinking as well Right Sam!

So in these two models the pictures do not show the chrome trim on the top and bottom pans..that I can tell although they are not sure to be correct models though.

Regards,

[Mark75H]

..that I can tell although they are not sure to be correct models though.

That's where I was pointing. These may have been changed or swapped around between various motors/powerheads by previous owners who were not restoring, just racing. Stuff doesn't need to be cosmetically factory original to race.

[Ron Hill]

I'm saying that the white face plate is original and the chrome strip onthe red motor is original....

They never made a 30-H, with the "BIG TOP" starter....Only bigger letters..

The black motor appears to be on a KG-9/Mark 40 Clamp and saddle, as the 55-H's all had longer tubes with threads for Ride Guide steering...

[alan akerstrom]

I guess I didn't understand the question either. My friend Jim M. has an original 1962 30H, There's a picture of it under a Clarkcraft thread I posted to a couple years ago here on BRF. I've seen the '59 55H face plates 2 different ways: 1) the exact same as the white one/with the black inlay a couple posts back. 2) I also have a NOS all gloss black '59 style 55H front plate. Came out of a dealers long forgotten new stock. Must have been made in the early '60s. Has a white oval badge.

[crankbearing]

I guess I didn't understand the question either. My friend Jim M. has an original 1962 30H, There's a picture of it under a Clarkcraft thread I posted to a couple years ago here on BRF. I've seen the '59 55H face plates 2 different ways: 1) the exact same as the white one/with the black inlay a couple posts back. I also have a NOS all gloss black '59 style 55H front plate. Came out of a dealers long forgotten new stock. Must have been made in the early '60s. Has a white oval badge.

Hey Alan,

Wanna trade something for that faceplate? By the way, can you let Jake know I am waiting for him to verify his address to ship those cases. out.. Can you find that 30H pic Alan. Is your buddy's 30H documented numbers matching. You Know the drill.

Regards,

[crankbearing]

I'm saying that the white face plate is original and the chrome strip onthe red motor is original....

They never made a 30-H, with the "BIG TOP" starter....Only bigger letters..

The black motor appears to be on a KG-9/Mark 40 Clamp and saddle, as the 55-H's all had longer tubes with threads for Ride Guide steering...


Hey Ron,

here is the link to the 62 30H pic..from the book, and I have seen pics of this motor and the 55H at the montreal boat show in the fall of 61.

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11759&d=1161327786


Regards,

[crankbearing]

Here are a couple pictures of the progress.

first is the 55H-1 Powerhead, This must have been a test bed for something. It Has the pads and the porting it is in the serial group and has the two ports but it also features the cast split line in the bottom of the block and the provisions for the bolt on Tuner which I thought only came on the early 500 blocks. It is correct as far as I can tell now, it has a 4D-2 Mag and 1100A3 points, all new internals rings, bearings, seals etc - enjoy. I painted it trying to get it close to a black block look I may change that I have not decided.

The second and third are of the 58?? 30H You can see the crank falls in line it has the big taper, heavy rods, big cages (which are smaller as per Ron) and flat top pistons. The bores cleaned up pretty good some light scoring in number 4 but I got away with taking a .001 per bore to clean them all up round. Not bad for a 40+ year old motor. New Rings, STD Bore, and I opened the center main & rods up to clearance like the early 30,40,44 motors. That is one point as to why these motors would not run. This crank mic's .8825 - .8827 on the rods which is the same sizeing as a newstyle 44 crank.. The early cranks I have mic .8795 - .8805. new seals and bearings all together

One more point about the 30. I am confused as to why this motor has big chamber dual Pumps. I read somewhere that they stopped using two pumps after the 11?????? serial group. This motor has two pumps go figure. I'll be going back to one pump.

Enjoy..

Regards,

[Mark75H]

What are the serial numbers on them? You can leave out the last 2 digits for security.

[crankbearing]

What are the serial numbers on them? You can leave out the last 2 digits for security.


Hey Sam

The 55H is 12608??
The 30H is 11640??

In comparing on the 30H when I look at my list a 30H with 9979?? Thru 11665?? The other sure give away on the 55H is that none of the Bleed Holes are drilled or tapped just cast in.

Regards,

[alan akerstrom]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6885#post6885

Several knowledgeable people have checked this motor over and have each formed the opinion that it's the real deal. Obviously it has the early style recoil, came that way... I can get better pictures of it next time I'm over that way.

[alan akerstrom]

Dave-
I have a complete #'s matching '59 55H with the serial #1260873 with original but tired paint. How close is that # to yours? The block came painted cloud white like pretty much everything else on the motor. No, you can't have my black face plate! I can take a picture of them tonight though... Alan

[crankbearing]

Dave-
I have a complete #'s matching '59 55H with the serial #1260873 with original but tired paint. How close is that # to yours? The block came painted cloud white like pretty much everything else on the motor. No, you can't have my black face plate! I can take a picture of them tonight though... Alan


Hey Alan,

Ok take the pics so you can rub it in.. LOL. We are within 30 numbers of each other on the serials. Is that 30H a 2 Port block? I mean two transfer port covers with that term.

Regards,

[Mark75H]

Hey Sam
The 55H is 12608??
The 30H is 11640??
In comparing on the 30H when I look at my list a 30H with 9979?? Thru 11665?? The other sure give away on the 55H is that none of the Bleed Holes are drilled or tapped just cast in.

You just helped me figure out I have been repeating a mistake over and over for a few years.

The 30H is neither a 1956 as I thought nor a 1959, but as you were told ... a 1958. I had mistakenly been saying the 1166471 thru 1166568 group were 1956 motors ... well this is obviously wrong since 1106708 is the first 1958 number and 1194069 is the last 1958 number.

That puts the late 30H serial number group a little more than half way thru the whole 1958 group, not really close to either end.

Still, it indicates to me that the covers should be 1958 round tops with the 3 chevron cast front cover that includes the front handle, not 1959 squares and not 1962 squares with black wraps. I think a 1958 would have the plastic emblem rather than the metal one on the front.

What do you think?

[crankbearing]

You just helped me figure out I have been repeating a mistake over and over for a few years.

The 30H is neither a 1956 as I thought nor a 1959, but as you were told ... a 1958. I had mistakenly been saying the 1166471 thru 1166568 group were 1956 motors ... well this is obviously wrong since 1106708 is the first 1958 number and 1194069 is the last 1958 number.

That puts the late 30H serial number group a little more than half way thru the whole 1958 group, not really close to either end.

Still, it indicates to me that the covers should be 1958 round tops with the 3 chevron cast front cover that includes the front handle, not 1959 squares and not 1962 squares with black wraps. I think a 1958 would have the plastic emblem rather than the metal one on the front.

What do you think?


That sounds Great Sam! Thanks. So For 1958 What Decals should it have. This is also great news as I can pick a 1958 colour for it or did they come specifically that red Ron was talking about I think it's Matador Red.

You got further then I did, when I originally went looking for this number it came back as a Mark 28- LOL

Regards,

[crankbearing]

I have seen some pics finally of an OEM 59 55H and it is all white the handles, the trim other then the accents in the faceplate and the cover emblem even the Powerhead, It still has the factory tested by OK sticker on it. Does anyone make those stickers.

Now! Does anyone have a Powered by The Famous Thunderbolt Emblem lying around that they do not want anymore. That is another thing I noticed the 59 has this emblem on it - on the lower cowl. I think these came on a 35A as well.

Regards,

[Ron Hill]

Everyday, I read this thread hoping to see at least ONE picture....Come on, go buy a cheap camera, and post us a few pictures of these "BABIES".....

Seems like only yesterday, we were opening our new 55-H...Serial number 984540...My dad bought spray cans of "GO GREEN" and 55-H white....


Sam wrote: "Still, it indicates to me that the covers should be 1958 round tops with the 3 chevron cast front cover that includes the front handle, not 1959 squares and not 1962 squares with black wraps. I think a 1958 would have the plastic emblem rather than the metal one on the front."

The 1959 Mark 30-H NEVER had "SQUARE" or as we called the "BIG STARTERS". They were round and yes, they had the plastic emblem....Two port covers, (we called them three screw) Mercury mags, big cranks, solid rods, flat top pistons, "BIG" reeds...and we DOGS.....Few were sold, Mercury finally took them apart, sold the powerheads on fishing motors and sold off, at various time the mid sections and gearcase....They double drilled the mid sections to but universal C-D and they all cracked...

[crankbearing]

Hey Sam, Ron,

So by then in the game, was mercury using all the small sheave recoils but with the addition of the bump in the pan for the starter or would they still have installed an early manual pan without the bump. I have both but I have a manual style pan without the bump that is like new.

I found a dupli-color paint that is identical to the black block colour yesterday it is High Heat Cast Iron I believe you can get it at Wal-mart in the US. CDN tire in Canada. Just make sure and use the chromate first.

I am still looking for an off - gold that matches the anodized finish. I found one that was close but looked to much like metal flake.

Yes Ron I cannot understand why we cannot get pictures of the REAL ones that are out there. Oh Well! I 'll have mine together in a couple weeks and I'll post some pics. LOL

Regards,

Dave

[BRIAN HENDRICK]

....They double drilled the mid sections to but universal C-D and they all cracked...

Was there a later 'generic' mid section that was double drilled, but with a thicker [or stronger alloy?]
that would NOT crack under a D ???
Makes sense that Merc would not list/stock two mids in the parts book.:rolleyes:

[Mark75H]

Was there a later 'generic' mid section that was double drilled, but with a thicker [or stronger alloy?]
that would NOT crack under a D ???
Makes sense that Merc would not list/stock two mids in the parts book.:rolleyes:


Yes, but I'm going to tease you first ...


The "they" Ron refers to are racers, not Mercury. -Trying to make a 30H mid into a generic C/D mid. Using deep cut C mids as D's is the failure mode.
They don't break right away, so if you find a C mid on a D that isn't broken doesn't mean it won't break, just it hasn't broke yet. I suspect there weren't a lot of broken ones looking to be replaced until well after Merc was out of the C/D class business.

There is a "generic" Merc tower that accepts both lower unit sizes and doesn't break, but it isn't made from the C/D casting ...


The generic tower that works with both is the 25xs - 44xs

[Ron Hill]

Sam seems to always have the "REAL" facts, I only have my memory...


But, as I recall. there was a batch on Mark 30-H's that didn't sell....and as I've said before Waldman and herring had quite a few of these, Quincy may have had some...


Charlie or Edgar could possibly confirm what I'm going to say:


"THEY" meaning someone at Mercury, I think DOUBLE Drilled some of these 30-H housing to try and sell to the racing public....It wasn't long that the were breaking on not just "D's" but on the "C's" too...It seems to me,that at about the time kit was Killing the Hot Rod (Beloit Nationals, 1960) that Mercury made some new mid sections, THICKER, but were doubled drilled as not to ADMIT any mistakes on the other castings... They didn't make many....and guys like my dad gave them hell for drilling them double...So, they just quit making them altogether...

So, there maybe, in fact, a generic C-D Mercury Mid section that was actually made for both, not a Mark 30-H, re drilled for D....The most ever made would have been 25, I'm guessing...... Because, by 1963, we weren't breaking housing, unless we ran over someone! I remember loaning a Merk 30-H with a brand new single drilled housing.....the engine was in a wreck...The next race the housing cracked....Never had any new single drilled housing crack on a "C" or "D"...

[alan akerstrom]

'59 55H side view. I think Dave will have his motor restored before I can get to this one, but some day.

[crankbearing]

Hey Alan,

Glad you posted them, I did not want to without your consent first. You just never know. The top shroud is painted and I have all the mid parts beaded and primed. I just have to do the bottom pan.

Hey Al the other thing I need is a 30/55 H co-pilot. I thought I could modify a stock one but that isn;t happening. That is the part that sits on top of the swivel and slide the yoke pin through and then the ears sit over the springs. I also need one spring.

Does anyone have contact info for Tom Moulder. Does he still do the repro ID plates. My two plates I have are both 997 numbers.

Regards,

[alan akerstrom]

I'll send you a co-pilot disc. I have a couple extras.

Alan

[crankbearing]

Here are some prelim shots of the 55H-1 well underway. I had a recoil nearly done and then I realized it had the holes for the chrome strip - DOH!!!! So I will use it on my DCH Motor. I wish my camera was better. I had this painted with wimbledon white and I did not much care for the low gloss. So I got some DBC PPG Cloud White in base/clear and a urethane clear. Man is that stuff Tough, and I stripped and repainted the whole thing again.. man does it shine..

Enjoy.

[crackerboat]

That looks too nice to put in the water!

[crankbearing]

I do not know how they did these things back in the day, but man I will tell YA, This has to be the hardest thing I have ever had to do to an outboard motor. Enjoy..


Regards,

[mark30h]

Ive got a 30H ser #144819#, matching #s on block and ser tag. The ser tag does not identify the model # however. The motor is as used original from what i can see. All parts are cloud white, appears to be factory. The starter top is square, with black lettering. Block is cloud white, the handle on the starter top is white, and there is no stainless trim around the top or lower pan. The wrap is black with 1/4" white stripes at intervals on the band. Mount for the front cover is threaded, but there is no cover. Ill try to get some photos posted tomorrow. This motor is a mystery as Id never heard of 30H's being produced past 59, and the ser # seems to put it in the 61 range, right after production numbers of the Merc 350. Because of the amount of questions Ive had over the years of the existence of 61 era 30H's, Ive been hesitant to restore it, and alter the originality.

[Mark75H]

Exactly as I have found all other late production 30H's

As far as I have seen, the 1962 55H's and 30H's are the only motors Merc ever made with serial numbers but no model number designation.

Ads for used 30H's like this in the mid-1960's refer to them as 1962's


It would be ideal to collect serial numbers from a bunch of them and try to establish a serial number range and possible production number.