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View Full Version : Saving old parts: slightly oversize pistons.


smittythewelder
04-13-2007, 11:28 AM
A lot of old outboards, and some other engines, can get their bores cleaned up with no more than an aggressive honing job, but then the pistons are a little loose and rattly. Rather than bore such an engine and use up the diminishing supply of factory oversize pistons, you might be able to "oversize" your standard pistons (as long as the skirts haven't collapsed).

First get them cleaned. Hot-vapor degreasing is a good move, if you have access to that (big machine shops often do it). Salt-blasting the skirts after degreasing is a process you can do at home with a cheapo blaster. Don't glass-bead pistons (some of the glass gets permanently embedded).

Next take the pistons to any automotive machine shop that has been in business for a long time, and get the skirts knurled. This is a technique of metal displacement that will increase the O.D. of the skirts (it also raises a little metal right around the knurl, but the increased O.D. is the important effect, and you might want to lightly run a file over the knurl to take off the little high spots which will wear off anyway.

After knurling, go to a sprayed and baked molycoat on the skirts, another operation you can do yourself. Google KG Industries (formerly Kal-Gard); these guys sold a ton of molycoating supplies in the heyday of 2-stroke motorcycle racing in the Seventies, although they originally formulated it for gunsmiths. Find an old, cheap phonograph to set your pistons on while spraying on the coating with an airbrush.

Immediately before doing the coating, do a metal-prep of the pistons with "mag" wheel cleaner, a dilute phosphoric acid. Wash off the loosened oxides, then heat the piston with a propane torch, enough to drive off the moisture (i.e., just over 212F). LET THEM COOL to about 80F, then spray.

To get the thickness right, you need to practice, using scrap pistons which you can borrow from your auto machine shop. The great Zak, who molycoated all kinds of things, said he had successfully built up .004" on used pistons, although about .0008" will burnish off any buildup during break-in. After that, the coating holds up well, and of course you can re-coat in the future. Oh, I said don't glass-bead pistons, but if you know you are going to be molycoating the skirts you can probably glass-bead without ill-effects, since the coating will protect the cylinder from the glass embedded in the pistons.

So don't throw out those standard-bore pistons; there may be life in them yet! I first had this done in 1967, on the advice of a Boeing lubrication expert, and later did it myself with Kal-Gard.

run13.1miles
08-10-2007, 11:33 AM
Hi,Just a warning about knurling pistons. I was disqualified by A.P.B.A. for using knurled pistons in stock A runabout engine. The penalty was one year on the beach.This was my second violation.The first was for being two pounds under weight. Just thinking , Bill

RichardKCMo
08-10-2007, 01:18 PM
When was this, what is the rule for mod classes?
RichardKCMoHi,Just a warning about knurling pistons. I was disqualified by A.P.B.A. for using knurled pistons in stock A runabout engine. The penalty was one year on the beach.This was my second violation.The first was for being two pounds under weight. Just thinking , Bill

Fast Fred
08-10-2007, 01:33 PM
Don't glass-bead pistons (some of the glass gets permanently embedded).
Untrue, look at it for your self, under a microscope.

smittythewelder
08-10-2007, 03:44 PM
Well, Fred, I have looked, with a good optical comparator, and seen lots of tiny sparkles on a glass-beaded piston skirt, both before and after scrubbing it with a brush and hot, soapy water. But if you want more convincing testimony, write to any of the big piston and ring manufacturers such as Sealed Power and Hastings. They will send you service bullitens (I have the one from Sealed Power, somewhere) informing you that your warranty will be voided if you install their rings on a glass-beaded piston. AERA (Automotive Engine Rebuilders Assn.) has sent a similar message warning machine shops about glass-beading pistons or other moving parts.

As mentioned above, I think you could get away with glass-beading piston skirts, NOT ring grooves, if you followed it with the sprayed and heat-cured moly-coating.

Fast Fred
08-10-2007, 05:55 PM
i'm goin with what i know.:cool: no ring grooves.;)

RichardKCMo
08-10-2007, 08:44 PM
I sure won't argue with smitty on this one , since i know where i can get salt really cheap.!!!

RichardFF.

Fast Fred
08-11-2007, 03:33 AM
when your done with your salt, take it out of the blaster, put it in a plastic bag, or a bucket with a tight lid, it pulls water out of the air, gets way clumpy.:cool:

RichardKCMo
08-11-2007, 05:57 AM
:cool: :cool: :cool: when your done with your salt, take it out of the blaster, put it in a plastic bag, or a bucket with a tight lid, it pulls water out of the air, gets way clumpy.:cool:

smittythewelder
08-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Fred, I'm not arguing about what you saw. Your microscope has a lot more power than my comparator and resolves a lot finer, which makes me wonder if the glass embeds in some aluminum but not in other aluminum. Maybe a cast surface gets embedded glass where some forgings would not. I do know that you can get headaches trying to weld a glass-beaded aluminum casting if you can't go all the way into the joint or crack with a rotary file to mechanically remove the surface with the embedded glass. Also, there are different sizes of glass bead; I use the coarsest grade, but all of it breaks down to dust pretty quickly. As Richard suggests, there are several blasting media other than glass-bead; if I were less lazy I would have tried them. I do like salt, but you're right about the inconvenience of some of its properties.

Fast Fred
08-12-2007, 05:52 AM
thay were not cast pistons, i don't seem to run cast in anything, but the Doza
and the green yard mule, yard mule spins the fastest at 3800rpms. Doza mite be
forged bein diesel.:cool:

Scat Kat
08-13-2007, 01:07 PM
I've been following the piston blasting conversation. In the aviation industry they us to use walnut shells for blasting/cleaning pistons. I haven't been in that industry in 30 years but I did Google walnut and there are suppliers out there. Question is: why aren't your using walnut, Salt just seems like corrision waiting to destroy a piston!