Stock outboard classes

[Skoontz]

Help!

I have read the APBA stock rule book back and fourth, and, saw no specific written rule regarding testing and metering equipment while racing.

So, for those who may know alot more....I want to install a data log on KT's boat to monitor exhaust gas, humidity, fuel/air mixture and RPM while underway. The device also logs engine patterns i.e. when a driver is on or off the throttle and will tie in with course positioning during the races. I then want to download that to a laptop to log what the engine is doing and create a more accurate set of records.
The only "modification" would require a 3/16" hole at a chosen spot in the exhaust manifold so the probe can pick up exhaust temps as they leave the ports. This is a critcal position to achieve the records I need to keep. That hole could very easily be plugged with a set screw or pipe plug if the exhaust probe would D/Q the engine, but then there is the issue of that plug in the manifold. The only written rule I saw, was regarding tuner length, and that you cannot polish any exhaust or carb parts...... It's easy to change manifolds if that be the case, but, that's not the answer I'm really after here.

We used this device when running AQMA and it was ctical for telling me what the engine was doing at certain points on the track, thus, what the drvier was doing as well. Engines were sealed by the juge before each race, so, once you dialed in, it was impossible to change anything without breaking seals, and, you would need to reinspect.....

Does anyone know of a specific rule stating that a monitor cannot be used?

[Dave-4Q]

Check rule # 9 in the SO inspectors manual under yamato 80 ( I know its not your class but I think it applys) Basically says no removal of metal in exh and you would have to drill a hole for the EGT probe, To be sure call your local inspector mine said no way and the only way I could do it would be to sacrifice some parts for testing use only. Please let me know if you find out differently .

[Skoontz]

Thank you, Dave. I'm seeing that rule too....I'm also going to call Roger Carr this weekend (region 12 inspector) and tell him exactly what I'm up to. I personally don't see any violation if all you have is montoring and data log equipment, but, rules are rules...For a person like me who is new to Hydro racing and handling, similarly to when KT ran AQMA, this data I found critcal in helping her drive safely, have fun, and win. My personal enjoyment was tuning the motor to run peak every race and knowing everything we did was legal and optimum. And, the data log can be referenced whenever you need it, like 30 years from now in some forum that talks about boat racing:):):)

I also saw a contradicting rule regardind radios...I was under the impression, that 2 ways were not legal......

I can according to the rules use a 2 way radio until KT gets the white X removed from her helmet. This would have really helped at Oroville when she continued out onto the course after the one minute warning, plowing water because her boat would not plane with the J restrictor....

.

[Tomtall]

Be very carefull when checking on these rules as the "J" class rules are different than Stock outboard rules. In any case in either class the rule states (and I do not have my rule book in front of me) The motor shall be raced as built by the manufaturer for the class. (loose interpritation). Only blueprinting is allowed per the class rules. In other words you can only modify your exhaust tunner for testing and not for racing in these classes. Now if it is a MOD class I believe you can race with a EGT.

[Skoontz]

Tom:

Thanks for input. Here is what the rulebook for all classes, J,AXS,A, runabout/Hydro say...With respect to exhaust/intake.

Rule E. You may not run adjustable jet carbs, you may change jetting. Why I have no clue, because you are basically doing the same thing, but, whatever...

Rule G. Polishing or removal of material on carburetor or exhaust system is prohibited.

That's fairly broad brushed, and, if you removing material to change the tuner, and or ports, I totally get it. ...What we are referring to with exhaust heat sensor is simply drilling a hole and threading it in the upper cylinder so the probe is at a 30° angle directly between the highest and second to the highest spacer bar in the ports. If it would be allowed to run, the proble could actually slow the motor slightly, and if it was not, you could use a set screw or pipe plug to close the hole....

If what I ask would be ruled a no-no, I could easily change a manifold with the few bolts on it. No polishing or shortening, or adding would take place in anyway.

Monitoring these temps were critical in various situations on the track to figure out what we needed to change, or leave to conduct the science of optimization.

Anywho, I'm thinking that call to Roger Carr is gunna be of the most benefit at this point.

[dancrabt]

If I may.
Why don't you setup your equipment and take your readings if the ref's allow and just take the DQ.You've got your readings but gain nothing as far as points but it seems what is most important is to get the readings.Just an opinion.I've been out of racing for 25 years and were getting back in so all this I'm reading is very interesting so I hope you didn't mind my suggestion and if its ok may I contact you later on some questions I may have.Here's my e-mail and good luck on your testing.

dancrabt@yahoo.com

Dan Crabtree

[Skoontz]

Dan:

I have explored that as an option as well. And, it's a good option! Thank you for the input!

[Dave_E71]

which data logger are you looking at?

[Skoontz]

Dave:

I have the micron 4. It logs up to 3 hours of racing, RPM, exhaust air to fuel mix, exhaust heat temp, and track temp which can easily be converted to body of water temp. The only thing I need to do is log air humidity/density.

New, that logger is about $350.00 and is moisture proof, as when it rains, it won't fail. It will not work if the boat goes upside down, or even if you get a good hosing in the turn, so, I built a waterproof case.

All you need to add is/are the sensors for each function you need. After the boat comes in, you take your yuppy device, (whatever that goofy new thing tha looks like a cord plug in that is used in place of a disc) is for logging data, export, then import it into your laptop to create a day/time record. You can also transmit to a reciever so you can see what's going on with the internals while the boat runs the course, if you want to drop lots more money....

Along with the engine, which is my thing, we gotta make a boat change.... Simple as that.....

[deanwilson]

I've had a similar experience with the 45ss class. The interpretation in Stock outboard has always been that you can only alter something when there is a specific rule that allows it, even damage repair, otherwise no alterations.

OPC allows what you're talking about but NOT Stock Outboard.

Also, check out the rules regarding dq's before you decide to just accept one to get your data. I believe APBA keeps records and at some point suspensions can be involved. I'm not sure of the specifics though.

Good Luck, Dean

[Skoontz]

Dean:


Thank you for your input. As I was driving loads today I thought about the fact that if
I just left the exhaust manifold on with the sensor, and got DQed, yep, it would come back to bite us. See the problem here is we could easily switch manifolds. 6 bolts, I beleive a few components....The problem, is that at races the classes seem to be so jammed that water time is tight and there really is not enough let alone any time to do any sort of testing to dial in yor equipment. This becomes extremely frustratiing when you are new not only to a sport, but to any class. It further becomes frustrating when you have to drive many many hours away just to test when there is water 15 minutes from your house....The data read equipment can and will assist me with what the boat is doing when the driver is so inexperienced she can't tell me how it is reacting to various conditions. It also tells me what is going on inside the engine.....Anywho, I will call our region inspector and run this by him. I'm reasonably sure he will tell me what you have, but, unless asked, you never really know right???

[Boatnut]

Hey Guys,
Check out the Griffith Cup Video under the Inboard Hydro Threads. (did i say that right??)
There was 25hp class, Hulls are open but motors are stock exept for Nose Cones (no p/u's but) Timing, height, setback prop all open. Being a std production class as badged 25's, the tohatsu own everything. at 429cc and 1.92:1 box it's got the best figures of the commercially availble 25 outboards in oz.:D

[David Mason]

You may want to ask ErnieDawe about radios in J. He is the J Category Chairman along with Mark Wheeler. If you need Mark's contact it is:

WHEELER@WMICH.EDU

[Skoontz]

Got him on my list, Dave. Thanks! The rule book says you can use radios until the rookie X gets peeled off the helmet. After that, it's a no no.

[mercguy]

Got him on my list, Dave. Thanks! The rule book says you can use radios until the rookie X gets peeled off the helmet. After that, it's a no no.

they should NOT be used for anyone in the J class or any beginner. The driver needs to be taught how and what do do BEFORE he/she gets on the water, not when they are on the water. The young kids can be fragile enough and do not need a parent or anyone else yakking orders or directions through a radio system. They have enough things to concentrate on being on the race course and having someone yakking in their ear would not be good at all!

ALL drivers need to pay more attention to the flags on the race course, not just J drivers.

[mercury400m]

Dave:

I have the micron 4. It logs up to 3 hours of racing, RPM, exhaust air to fuel mix, exhaust heat temp, and track temp which can easily be converted to body of water temp. The only thing I need to do is log air humidity/density.

New, that logger is about $350.00 and is moisture proof, as when it rains, it won't fail. It will not work if the boat goes upside down, or even if you get a good hosing in the turn, so, I built a waterproof case.

All you need to add is/are the sensors for each function you need. After the boat comes in, you take your yuppy device, (whatever that goofy new thing tha looks like a cord plug in that is used in place of a disc) is for logging data, export, then import it into your laptop to create a day/time record. You can also transmit to a reciever so you can see what's going on with the internals while the boat runs the course, if you want to drop lots more money....





how much does this whole set up cost??? if u dont mind me asking, seems interesting........ oh if possible a photo of the device?

[Skoontz]

Daren:

For the most part, I agree with what you are saying.

Katie has used radios for about 7 years now, and, the only thing I really say would have been nice is when she did not pay attention to the flags, after the boat would not plane, and, after she told me she understood what was said in the drivers meeting, she still continued plowing water after the race began. I too have used radios for a number of years and, agree it is critical to learn the controls first before a communication dialoge begins.

In that case of Oroville, it would have been nice for me to tell her after I clearly saw the one minute flag, that she needed to turn around and head back in so we could hae adjusted her boat so it would plane.

[Gstillwill]

Here is the link for the east coast distribitor for MyChron. They are on ebay all the time new for around 285.00 for the basic model. You will need to get longer leads for outboard use. I have been using the MyCrone 3 for a couple years now and works one most anything and works all the time. That one also downloads into a pc with graphs. I use the Tach and head temp when testing but dont race with it also when I get serious I set up a make shift course and use the beacon to time how fast different props get around it. When Val won the Nats last year in AXSH with my best Merc 15 we tested for two days the week before so we knew we had the best of what we had before making the trip. We tested My two Mercs and her Merc and all 15 props on each motor so it was a busy two days but paid off with the work. I have all that data on a cd and know what works on most any course. We did a couple sessions with the J restrictor in the Mercs and saw a drop in RPMS and also a drop in Temp as heat makes HP to a point and restricted they dont make as much HP so they run a little cooler. As many of the Mercs that I have built I have seen more damage in a stock fishing motor then when we race them and that is to the pistons. The factory clearances are just to tight from the factory even for a fishing motor. Anyway the MyChron 4 is the replacement for the MyCron 3 and the differance is the the 4 has more memory so will hold more data. The only thing I dont like about the 4 is it only reads two or three digits for the RPM's until you hit recall then it reads 4 dodit when the 3 reads four digits all the time so you can watch it while your running. Cool part is when you come in you can hit the button and it will recall the RPMS and Temp from the time the motor started till it was shut off so you can see what it did down the streights and thru the turns how many RPMS's it drops and how fast it gets them back. And to think we used to do all this with just a Keller and a pair of cutoffs:D

[Gstillwill]

Opps forgot the link for MyCron

http://www.aimsports.com/index.html