EVINRUDE and JOHNSON J/AXS/A Motors

[Ron Hill]

GREAT NEWS!!!!

Lynn Williams, who has been my friend since I was 11, and has built some very fine PARTS and OMC "A" motors of the years, and is the one who adapted the OMC RACING FOOT to the MERCURY 15 has agreed to be THE OFFICIAL BRF OUTBOARD BUILD CENTER FOR J/AXS/A EVINRUDE and JOHNSONS.


Here's the deal:

Send Lynn a 15 HP Johnson or Evinrude, without a gearcase. (THE LEGAL MOTORS). Lynn will bore the powerhead .030, new pistons, hook up the throttle, steeringbar, and add a RACING GEAR CASE, with solid mounts....a motor like TAMMY DAWE won the 2007 Winter Nationals with for $2,500.

THIS IS A SERIOUS BARGAIN...I just paid close to $2,500 each for used motors...I understand they are GOOD USED motors, but I'd like to have another...I'll find a 15 kicking around and send it to LYNN!!!

THANK YOU LYNN...

LYNNCO MACHINING: THE OFFICIAL REBUILD CENTER FOR J/AXS? A EVINRUDES AND JOHNSONS....

Phone number posted after I return from DePue...As I packed my phone book...

[Skoontz]

I gotta bore question.....So, you cut .030 or whatever the legal tolerances are from the hole.... In doing so, you cut the chamfer from the ports, which allows rings to slide over the port...I'm hearing that if you place that chamfer back in the port, you can be DQ'ed.....

Any stock inspectors have a take on that???????

Add, say you decide to resleeve....Do you have to ask permission in order to do so???? And, during a 1-2-3 finish at nationals, I understand you can expect to get your engine back in a bag.....So, are you allowed to stand watch while a group of inspectors destroys your engine? And, at what point do they stop ripping the engine apart????

I now have 4 A motors, soon to be 5, that one is a legal short shaft electric start A......All
I need is gear feet.....

[Tomtall]

Skoontz - We do not chamfer our ports after a overbore. The ports are really not large enough on these motors to snag a ring. If your really parinoid about it you can take a machinest deburing tool and scrap the edge off of the port without really even knowing it was done. A ball hone used after the final boring also cleans up the edges.The thing with the chamfering of the ports was people were doing it so sever that they were actually affecting the port timming, which is a no no. When we got torn down at Wakefield nationals by Ed Runne for finishing 2nd in JR class the short block was inspected well but not torn down to the crank. First place finishers are a manditory full teardown as you know but I have never known things to be to extream for 2nd and 3rd. Just have some full gaskets sets in the trailer for your build up and you'll be fine. And my gosh man sell some motors! How many motors do you need? :eek:

[mercguy]

I gotta bore question.....So, you cut .030 or whatever the legal tolerances are from the hole.... In doing so, you cut the chamfer from the ports, which allows rings to slide over the port...I'm hearing that if you place that chamfer back in the port, you can be DQ'ed.....

Any stock inspectors have a take on that???????

Add, say you decide to resleeve....Do you have to ask permission in order to do so???? And, during a 1-2-3 finish at nationals, I understand you can expect to get your engine back in a bag.....So, are you allowed to stand watch while a group of inspectors destroys your engine? And, at what point do they stop ripping the engine apart????

I now have 4 A motors, soon to be 5, that one is a legal short shaft electric start A......All
I need is gear feet.....



the inspectors do not destroy your engines, when they are torn down! You are the one that tears it down to where they want it to be. The inspectors are very highly qualified individuals and know what to look for. They "can" make you tear the motor down to the last bolt, but seldom ever do.

yes, you can have the motor resleeved.........read the tech manual online.........

[Gstillwill]

Im not an inspector but do know the rule book and there is a measurement on the chamfer on the ports and as long as you dont go past that when putting it back in its still leagel. You dont have to get permission to resleeve the block but the ports have to be cut in as per the inspection measurements. At the Nats usually the first three motors get torn down to the bare crank and no the inspectors dont tear them down the owner does and they just inspect the parts as you do. Just make sure you have all the tools to take the motor apart. My 15 Merc came back in a box last year from Wakefield.right down to the bare crank:eek:

[Skoontz]

Thanks gys! I used to word figurativley "destroyed" not meaning destroyed, just mean't detroyed...got it???/ LOL



As far as selling motors, that's what I'm accumluating them for. I had such a hard time getting them, that I never want to see that problem again...The electric start is what I'ma gunna use for a new driver who kills their motor alot...Grab the throttle, hit the start, Vroooooom! They come in smiling!

[mercury400m]

hey ron what would the price be on this and another question is it really that hard to find an omc 15hp johnrude down there??? because almost every street you down in my town theres atleast 2

[Skoontz]

There are only certain years that are legal, certain motor hoods that are legal, certain carbs that are legal. That's what makes it hard.................

[mercguy]

hey ron what would the price be on this and another question is it really that hard to find an omc 15hp johnrude down there??? because almost every street you down in my town theres atleast 2


you are right, the motors are all over the place. I see atleast a couple (fishing motors that can be converted) each week for sale on Craigslist. You are looking for the 86-92 15hp versions, but the 9.9 can be made to work also, you just need to add the tuner pipe and change the carb. You can make the late 70's to mid 80's 15hp carb work also, with some parts from Ed Runne.

[Skoontz]

in the San Diego area...Would any of you recommend a particular machine shop to bore a 15HP OMC motor? And, would you place any taper in the cylinders? Some builders, depending on their goal, is to taper so the hole is slightly tighter at the cylinder head side, like maybe .001 difference from bottom to top....

Next Q....I have seen very little if any difference from a standard bore with a closely toleranced fit to a .030 motor in the past. Honestly, based on KT's skill level at present, I'm not even sure a .030 motor would matter jack diddle until she dials her turns in better. What is your take on standard vs .30 for an experienced driver???? Then for a novice driver with white X on helmet?

At present, we have 3 standard and 1 .030 block.

Next Q/scenario You have a well broken in block, rods and crank. You have changed pistons (new) rings, and bearings. What would the approximate break in time be for break in.

Next Q....This one will vary all over the board. We typically run 1 quart of Valvoline 2 stroke oil to 4.5 gallons of fuel. Ernie for example, runs 2 quarts of Chevron to 5 gallons of fuel.

Assuming you ran an AXS/A rig, what oil/fuel mix would you run, and include brands.

Next Q... I typically start and run KT's engines on the trailer while in the water for 3-5 minutes prior to a heat, modulating the throttle from high idle to blips of wide open. I measure discharging water temp sometime when I feel yuppie with a thermometer, most of the time by hand. 140° used to be the recommended OMC discharge temps, so I at least attempt to get close to there. My reasoning is to get the insides good and hot so she can tromp the throttle right out of the shore.

Is this overkill? What would you recommend?

Lastly, it was my dads habbit, and through him, mine, to put the boat in the water, unplug the fuel hose and run the engine dry. The reasoning is so the fuel won't turn to crud inside the carb. This answer is all over the board depending on who you talk to, so, what are your recommendations??

Once we select a system, that's what we are runnig with. Thanks for the help in advance!

[Skoontz]

Daren:

Is that in San Diego, El Cajon, Lakeside, or where?

[BPIII125V]

Skoontz,

for new rings and bearings I would break in for an hour with a test wheel. start off slow and over the hour slowly increase RPM's. vary RPM's a bit. then put a prop on it that planes easy and have her drive it for a while.

I mix 13 oz of oil with 1 gallon of gas. use a good quality oil like Yamalube 2R or Bombardier. I'm not sure what elevation you are at but you probably should run a 58 jet.

at this point I would not worry about std bore vs .030 over until you get her some more boat time. But if you have a .030 over engine already, run it, you won't see that much difference at this point.

I dry fire my engine anywhere from 5 minutes to a half hour before I race, just depends on what all I have going at that time. If it is warm out I run it for 5 seconds or so. If cold and rainy, maybe 10-20 seconds. For all the years I've been around the sport I've never seen someone run an engine for 3-5 minutes prior to going out unless they are trying to diagnose a problem. My opinion - you are just putting extra time on the engine amd wasting gas.

I only drain the gas out of the carb at the end of the season, never had a problem. take it off the engine and dump it out. i also make sure the gas is out of the fuel line inside the engine pan too.


good luck

Bill

[Skoontz]

Thank you, All!

I got exactly what I was looking for.....With one more Q....does anyone have a test wheel with a 9/16 hole for sale or where can I get one?

[Gstillwill]

Everyone has their own brew for oil mix and breaking in a motor. With the quality of the oils on the market now you dont have to use as much as in years past and in fact can do more to hurt performance by using to much. First if you use a synthetic or semi synthetic to break a motor in the rings will never seat before the walls on the bore glaze and once this happens they will never seat. Use to much synthetic or semi synthetic after they are seated the same thing happens wall glaze and the rings loose their seat. I have built many motors and build many motors and have had to pull a few apart just for this reason because they were broke in with the wrong oil or to much of the wrong oil was used been ther done that. This is not saying that synthetic or semi synthetic isnt good as I use it but not to brake a motor in and not using to much of it. To break one of the motors I build I use only TC3 oil from Mercury or OMC and mixed at 6 oz to a gal which is 24-1 which is plenty of oil. I run 2 gal on a test wheel running it slow at first then higher for short periods to clean it out and put some heat in it. At the end of the two gals I pull the port covers and check the rings if there is still breakin lines on the rings I put a prop on it and run the same mix till the rings are almost shiney and the breakin lines and black are all but gone. At that point they are broke in and seated. I use nothing but BP/AMOCO 93 hi test in the motors which in where I live the gas will pass the meter by a ton. For oil when broken in I use either Royal Purple or VP Racing C-2 both of which are semi synthetic and mixed at 6 oz to a gal but any good brand of semi synthetic oil works just fine. Every motor that I take apart running this mixture still has plenty of oil inside and the bearings and surfaces just have a slight color to them from normal running and the piston tops just a black sooty film on them which washes right off as does the exhaust cover and the ports are shinny with no carbon build up. One must remember only so much fuel mixture will go through the carb jet and if that mixture has less gas with more oil added then it makes less HP and reduces the heat in the combustion chamber but heat makes HP to a point which after that point it damages the motor. The bottom line is to make heat, make HP and keep the motor lubed enough as to not damage it. Ok Im done:D

[Skoontz]

Same principle as a smaller chainsaw engine then, George. We had guys who dowsed oil in the gas thinking it would be better for the gnine, and all they did was smoke more, turn the chain less RPM, and not get as much work done, then end up fowling plugs early...
Thanks for the elaboration.

[Skoontz]

are what dad always called something someone did that no one would ever be told, and that worked incredibly well.

I've honed my camera skills a bit (flash really helps) and have some good shots that I will post of KT's welded together motor....

So, I'll explain the ancient chinese pollock trick before I show photos in an hour or so...KT doing homework, taking a break, after sheez done, I'll show pics...

So, the block is now a bare block ready for the scrap heap. The pistons,
.030, in good shape after they cleaned up, and one rod salvagable, the other blue and twisted. The crank is shot....

I began from the top, and worked down, examining what when and why....I found the what, that being a hunk of junk lodged in the water intake tube...

Ron had warned of weeds and or kelp from Bakersfield and I discounted it as none were wound around the prop shaft....Until I saw this one piece, or at least I thought one piece, inside the water intake tube....

I took a coat hanger, straightened it out, and pushed from the lower unit end, to the block end of the water tube....And, out came.....a 1' long 1/4" diameter piece of wooden doweling. The water tube is only 3/8" ID, and with a 1'4" hunk of wood in there, the flow would be cut 60%. The dowel was in there for a long time too, as it is split on one end, and swelled...

I'm at this time, asking the why, or the who has ever heard of such an ancient chinese pollock trick before? The only reason that remotely comes to mind is that this motor once ran kilos up in Oroville. I don't know water temps at the Kilo lake, but I do know the record race course was between 44 and 46° when we measured it----Cold enough that when KT and Lauren Johnson were swimming after the races, KT was cramping up a bit until I told her to get out of the water........

Could this hunk of dowleing be a primitive thermosat, or way to heat the water comming in so the motor ran faster? And why the heck would a person not just install a hotter thermosat? Anyone ever heard of that before?

Pictures to follow your ponderance.....

[Skoontz]

in sequence

[Skoontz]

New cylinde rhead with supercedded part number. Gear foot showing water intake holes, dowel rod that was stuck in water tube on bench. old head next to new head

[Skoontz]

#1the dowel thermostat emerges...
#2, the dowel thermostat lays on the bench, where I think it belongs....

So, can anyone guess why the person who had the motor before the person he got it from may have done that????? If anything, I guess it's reason to disassemble every enge we buy used just to see what should or should not be there.....

[Mark75H]

I thought you meant an inch or two, not a foot ... that's more than weird:eek:

[David Mason]

It was a poor attempt at a speed secret. That would be much harder for an inspector to catch than a plugged billy hole. Could the two be related ? From the GPS readings you said you were seeing with a J, this might have been why it was so fast ?

Dang... a 50 cent dowel rod........

[Skoontz]

Ok, this is making sense now....So the real restrictor plate needs to be in the watwer tube:) lol

Spoke to Ron today trying to get KT's rear in gear to make Parker...10 days, she works her tail off, she can race...

Along the conversation, he told of an OMC guy who would, at races use a rectal thermometer, well not really, and place it into the water discharge....If he saw a temp he did not like, he would call a tear down before your boat would keep it's scores....

So there was this theory to run hotter, and that would make you faster....But then, is this not what a thermostat is supposed to do? One stop to the autoparts store, ask them if you can go to the shelves and play....Pull compact car therms out of the boxes until you get one that fits. So you get a 220 rather than the 140's OMC used to spec....No one I know or have seen in my short time racing, has ever yanked a thermostat from it's housing, let alone use a thermometer to check temps....Not to say they don't check though....


Second, I now have a hunch why that bottom cylinder was heating up 175° over the top. If water flow was restricted as badly as it had been, theoretically, water would have entered the motor slowly. It would be staying the longest on the bottom cylinder, perhaps even boiling before it rose to the top then left the block.....If flow was so severely restricted we would get a simialr effect as a restricted latteral irrigation line. The last head on the line would be the first to discharge, and water near the point of connection (this case being the copper tube in the motor) stays stagnant, or at least moves much slower than at the other end.

Just theories here...Anyone else got any ideas????

[Joe J]

Bill:

I have a couple of bare blocks if you need them.

Joe

[Skoontz]

Joe:

How much do you want for them? PM me and we'll make arrangements....

Do you know anyone with a spare foot they would like to sell? I'm about to order 2 new ones, one black, one white.....

[Gstillwill]

All the new gear feet are unpainted which is not required to be leagle.

[carl lewis]

Well, now it makes more sense why the engine stuck.

Just didn't understand the 3/4 lap deal not on plane and blowing out the whole way, though I've seen it happen before but very rare.

If you want someone who is VERY good at J-AXS-A engines in your state/ nation wide P.M. me and I'll send you the name and #

Carl

[Skoontz]

Making alot more snse and feeling better about things now....

George:

I have to polish dump truck wheels for a parade soon, and on my list, is to polish KT's gear foot.

Carl: The 3/4 lap deal is simple. She stood on the deck, as taught by so many, with the curl of water under the boat....You can see it in the pictures.....

She also requested me to mount her throttle half way between the transom, and dash. Once planed, she likes the grip there and it gives her triangulation in case she gets a toss as she did at Longbeach. The other boat had no triangulation from throttle, wheel and floor, and, when she got pinched looking to ge ti nside in milling, hitting the buoy tossed her from the boat.....

That triangulation allows her more stability inside the cockpit. what it does not do, however, is let off the trigger even a hair to feather the boat onto plane........She could not feather back, even a hair, and I believe, that had she done that, the prop would have caught and that little rocket would have shot like it did running A class...In A class, it bounced up dropped and bang, gone.....But, that was Ernies motor, not ours, which was running about 8 cans short of a six pack and we never knew it....

The boat did not continue doing a full on blow out. It kept on that curl, high reved, as long as she stood on the deck....

I tried to explain to her when the crackers left the launch, as they hammer it, then let up, hammer it, then let up, hammer it a third time then they catch and they are gone....Same principle, different boat..... I think, had she done that, we could have run the motor set flat, just like Ernie said the boat would have done, the same way the boat worked in the irrigation channel using our own J prop.

I looked through my notes, and that bottom cylinder has run hot since we bought the motor, well, since I've had monitors on each set of ports....

I'll send you off a PM for that guys name. Time to get serious here....

[BPIII125V]

Skoontz,

please move her throttle back to where it belongs. with the throttle halfway between the dash and transom, she is going to have a very hard time keeping the fin in the water when it is rough and she goes hard into a turn. the fin is going to pop out of the water and she is going to slide out, hopefully there will be no one to her right when it happens. With the throttle in it's "normal" position she can comfortably drive the boat while she is shifted forward in the cockpit. this is necessary when going into a head wind. the throttle is also there so that she can get her weight out over the left deck a bit to keep the fin in the water while turning.

good luck and keep us posted.

Bill

[Skoontz]

Moving the throttle is a definite. I thought it was too far back myself, but she is driving.... We are heading to the water this weekend, free of dowel rods, new rings, block, crank, bearings, gaskets and seals. Gotta new Ron Hill prop to try as well. After we seat the rings it will be interesting to see how hot the exhaust is....

[Skoontz]

The following is OMC A motor specific, so, fire away with your opinions please.

Typically, we would have .002-.003 piston skirt to cylinder wall clearace on any given new/fresh engine. And, modern day pistons are not as they were back in the day. Where a 4-60 Rude, or PO Johnson, or maybe even an old MK30H would have perfectly round pistons, new pistons in a modern day world are cut like a very subtle egg shape.
Since they are cut eliptically, so say we have a piston 2.20 in diameter with a cylinder bore of 2.202.
New, that piston would measure approximately .003 less underneath the pin than when you turn the mic 90° on the circle and measure the skirt to skirt sizes. Through time, even if the piston looks clean and pretty, this dimension changes, and reverses itself, and the machinists call this piston compression. So, on one set of .030 slugs, I have a .003 larger dimension under the pins than there is on the skirt sides, exactly the opposite of when the piston is brand new.

With a 2.2" diameter hole, this should not make much difference, in theory...If the cylinders were say, 4", the piston variance can be as much as .015 on a used piston, and will be .005-007 on a brand new piston.....Since the bore size is significantly larger, we would typically replace the pistons in the example given.


So, question posed....When you rebuild your A motors, with the variance I just described to you, would you replace those pistons, or run them if they are clean and polished as ours are?? Or, would you replace them? I know there will be a significant more amount of break in time with new slugs than the old....We have alot of time until Oroville or Bakersfield....And, San Vincente Resevoir is closed for 3 years, they are raising the dam...

[deanwilson]

...We have alot of time until Oroville or Bakersfield....And, San Vincente Resevoir is closed for 3 years, they are raising the dam...

Aren't the J-A's running at Havasu Landings in Jan??

[mercguy]

The following is OMC A motor specific, so, fire away with your opinions please.

Typically, we would have .002-.003 piston skirt to cylinder wall clearace on any given new/fresh engine. And, modern day pistons are not as they were back in the day. Where a 4-60 Rude, or PO Johnson, or maybe even an old MK30H would have perfectly round pistons, new pistons in a modern day world are cut like a very subtle egg shape.
Since they are cut eliptically, so say we have a piston 2.20 in diameter with a cylinder bore of 2.202.
New, that piston would measure approximately .003 less underneath the pin than when you turn the mic 90° on the circle and measure the skirt to skirt sizes. Through time, even if the piston looks clean and pretty, this dimension changes, and reverses itself, and the machinists call this piston compression. So, on one set of .030 slugs, I have a .003 larger dimension under the pins than there is on the skirt sides, exactly the opposite of when the piston is brand new.

With a 2.2" diameter hole, this should not make much difference, in theory...If the cylinders were say, 4", the piston variance can be as much as .015 on a used piston, and will be .005-007 on a brand new piston.....Since the bore size is significantly larger, we would typically replace the pistons in the example given.


So, question posed....When you rebuild your A motors, with the variance I just described to you, would you replace those pistons, or run them if they are clean and polished as ours are?? Or, would you replace them? I know there will be a significant more amount of break in time with new slugs than the old....We have alot of time until Oroville or Bakersfield....And, San Vincente Resevoir is closed for 3 years, they are raising the dam...



the OMC A pistons do not stay "round" for very long. I remember Ed Runne telling me that the A pistons should be replaced atleast every 2 yrs, as they egg shape fairly quickly...........they are inexpensive, so why not.

[Skoontz]

deanwilson;45430]Aren't the J-A's running at Havasu Landings in Jan

I have not seen them on any schedule, but, I'll go to APBA site and reaffirm that. I thougt they were....

Daren:

Thanks for the input. I'll call Sea-Way and get them sent off todat so I can get this thing broke right before the first time my heavy trigger handed driver hears the 2 minute horn!

[jtb]

the OMC A pistons do not stay "round" for very long. I remember Ed Runne telling me that the A pistons should be replaced atleast every 2 yrs, as they egg shape fairly quickly...........they are inexpensive, so why not.

I too have heard this, is there a better piston we can use? are wiscos legal in J?

[Skoontz]

You must use OEM parts. But herezz the thing....Unless you on the top with points, have won a national or sectional event, the chances that tyour engine will ever be torn down to the rods/crank/pistons is slim to none. The only real way you can check that OEM pistons are used is by the part numbers cast in under the wrist pin, bottom side of the piston dome.

I'm not by any means saying to not follow rules, but have often thought as long as a part was made as an original replacement, and you were not going to be torn down, who would ever know but you? And, if that part does outlast OEM, all you are really doing is lowering your racing costs, which can easily get out of hand....

There are a set of forged Arias original replacement pistons for a 9.9, 15 OMC for sale right now, $49.99 each. They use a keystone top ring, just as OMC made...

I'm just going OEM myself, but have had that thought for a long long time....

[jtb]

You must use OEM parts. But herezz the thing....Unless you on the top with points, have won a national or sectional event, the chances that tyour engine will ever be torn down to the rods/crank/pistons is slim to none. The only real way you can check that OEM pistons are used is by the part numbers cast in under the wrist pin, bottom side of the piston dome.

I'm not by any means saying to not follow rules, but have often thought as long as a part was made as an original replacement, and you were not going to be torn down, who would ever know but you? And, if that part does outlast OEM, all you are really doing is lowering your racing costs, which can easily get out of hand....

There are a set of forged Arias original replacement pistons for a 9.9, 15 OMC for sale right now, $49.99 each. They use a keystone top ring, just as OMC made...

I'm just going OEM myself, but have had that thought for a long long time....

I'll use the OEM pistons. The last thing I need is to stir up controversy our first year out!
It kinda sux, I work at a dealership and I could buy the pistons for almost ½ of that in aftermarket parts…. Oh well!

[Skoontz]

I read in the rulebook, that it is legal to use Boyeson reeds as a replacement for stock OMC reeds. When assembling and inspecting the pieces, I found something in question. The motor had Boyeson reeds on it when we got it. And, the Boyeson reeds have a blued steel framework that touches the reed plate, then the nylon reed, then a metal spacer, then the OMC stops.

The shape of that framework for the Boyesons is significantly wider at the bottom down by where the screws hold the reed to the reed plate than the metal OMC reeds. It appears someone took a hack saw and cut the bottom of the reed plate to match the steel framework of the Boyeson reeds.

The rule book says it is OK to use Boyeson reeds, and gives a part number. It says nothing about modifying the reed plate to match the opening of the Boyeson reeds....Is that legal or in a grey area?

[Tomtall]

The rules state "no material may be removed from a cast part". Or there abouts. It must remain as cast. Only factory machined parts may be brought into blueprint spec.,(ports,block machined surfaces,cylinder bores,etc.) If the reed plate was alterted in any way it is illegal. The reed hole openings must be left as cast and the plate also.

[Skoontz]

That'sd what I thought, Tom. When I get my camera back from my daughters, I'll snap a photo and show you what someone did.

[Tomtall]

I know you were talking going to "A" class this year. Many of the "A" racers I have spoke with are running the OEM steel reed rather than the Boysens. They feel they are better in that application. The fiber reeds are a must in the restricted motors as they do seem to help the motor breath a little better. Some engine builders say the OEM reeds only work better on long course applications. I thought you might try both and let us know what you think. As soon as the weather turns we're going to test and see what our "A" likes better, if it's even worth it.

[Skoontz]

Tom:

Thanks for the tip. As for J, and AXS classes, we will be running a Merc after Bakersfield. So, with most courses that we run being short and tight, like one turn pin tight, I'm going for torque. The only way I caught this was when I saw a dent on the old reed plate under the reed...So, I took the reeds off one, and put on another, then took the stock reeds and loosely screwed them to the dented reed plate....The OEM reed would not cover the hole for the reeds that were on it.....

We will be testing next weekend, dodging police radar, and waking up all the people at La Costa resort in the Carlsbad Lagoon.

[David Mason]

I know you were talking going to "A" class this year. Many of the "A" racers I have spoke with are running the OEM steel reed rather than the Boysens. They feel they are better in that application. The fiber reeds are a must in the restricted motors as they do seem to help the motor breath a little better. Some engine builders say the OEM reeds only work better on long course applications. I thought you might try both and let us know what you think. As soon as the weather turns we're going to test and see what our "A" likes better, if it's even worth it.

45 degrees out today ! It sucks !! All the snow is melting, and the ice on the lakes is not so hard any more. If Adam is chomping at the bit I bet you could find some open water right now.. :D Don't call, i ain't pitting. And I vote for Adam to get at least blank knee deep before getting in :D:D

Of course had we went last weekend I could have shot geese while testing... interesting concept, instead of the mandated paddle in Pro, I would have been carrying a Benelli !!

[Skoontz]

is open Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday for testing, all day, ...... and it's FREE!

[Tomtall]

Dave - I don't think so. You see 15 miles east of you we still have snow and ice. However, I do like the testing goose hunt idea.:D

[Allen J. Lang]

Tom- Where is the global warming? It sure hasn't been showing it's face here in "THE VALLEY OF THE SUN". We are well below NORMAL. We got rain after the Super Bowl causing some flooding with either frost or freezing in the mornings. We were surrounded by snow in the mountains all around the Phoenix area. Our Mountain retreat got about 18-24 ins of snow:eek: yesterday. Our weather across the U.S. has gone crazy. Oh, to get back out in a boat again.;)
Ye Olde Desert Geezer :cool:

[ricochet112]

[QUOTE Tom- Where is the global warming? Our weather across the U.S. has gone crazy. QUOTE]

This is what happens when we heat up, more evaporation=more weather, if it's cold enough, it snows. In the NW, it's almost a record snowfall year. The 16.5 foot base has now settled to a 15 foot base at 5K feet.

Some places get hotter, some get cooler, but the weather varies widely when things get out of whack.

[Skoontz]

ready for Sunday. Time to aerate the water for a few hours.....Water has been with about a 2-3" ripple. After burbulated brats on the grille, marinaded steak tacos at Hernandez Hideaway along beautiful Lake Hodges...Del Dios Country store got bought by someone after a yuppie lawyer moved in and griped about the bands that have played there for the past 40 years....I sure hope he enjoys engine exhaust!

[Skoontz]

After taking apart the Hot Rod gear foot, I used some JB Weld on the water pump, and put it back together. I cleaned all surfaces with a little solvent, and used some of the brush from the bottle Permatex to seal it back when assembling each half. I torqued the bolts using an X pattern from inside working to outside, sort of like doing an old OMC cylinder head.

We have a very slight leak from one side. I'm running synthetic oil, which will fins it's way to holes allot faster than mineral based products.

Did I use the correct sealer for the job? If not, that explains the leak. If it is correct, what should I be looking other than the obvious to stop the seeping?

[Tomtall]

Skoonz - I always used OMC sealer that was used for sealing the crankcase halfs by OMC for my gearfoot re-seals.It's called "Gel Seal". It's red in color, thick paste that drys when parts are put together. This product should be available thru any dealer. Always make sure all old sealer is removed prior to re-sealing. I use carb spray to cut the old sealer and flat sand the case halfs to ensure a good clean surface. We use Merc. High Perf. gearlube which is a synthetic blend oil and have not had any issues using this sealer.

[Mark75H]

flat sand the case halfs to ensure a good clean surface.

I think that is the key that so many people miss. I use a large fine flat file; never had a problem on a split case unit.

[Tomtall]

Yes I agree with you Sam. However,I have seen this done to extream causing the case halfs to rocker on the shaft brg's and bushings and causing a seal that was poorer than what they had to begine with. Common sense goes a long ways here. ;)

[ricochet112]

[QUOTE=Tomtall;51264]Skoonz - I always used OMC sealer that was used for sealing the crankcase halfs by OMC for my gearfoot re-seals.It's called "Adhesive M". It's red in color, thick paste that drys when parts are put together. Disasembles very easy unlike Yahamabond. This product should be available thru any dealer. Always make sure all old sealer is removed prior to re-sealing. I use carb spray to cut the old sealer and flat sand the case halfs to ensure a good clean surface. We use Merc. High Perf. gearlube which is a synthetic blend oil.

Do you have your sealants mixed up? Adhesive (Sealer) M is very thin and brown and sticky ( it's actually a 3M weather stripping adhesive). Loctite Gasket Eliminator is thick and red and comes off hard as hell, you need to use a gasket removing solvent usually, and it will only dry in the absence of oxygen. Gasket Eliminator is what's recommended on metal to metal, Adhesive M was recommended for the "spag seal" split cases. These are all OMC products I'm referring to.

[jtb]

Skoonz - I always used OMC sealer that was used for sealing the crankcase halfs by OMC for my gearfoot re-seals.It's called "Adhesive M". It's red in color, thick paste that drys when parts are put together. Disasembles very easy unlike Yahamabond. This product should be available thru any dealer. Always make sure all old sealer is removed prior to re-sealing. I use carb spray to cut the old sealer and flat sand the case halfs to ensure a good clean surface. We use Merc. High Perf. gearlube which is a synthetic blend oil.

Here is a link that sells it with a part # as well. Good Luck!
http://www.laingsoutboards.com/useful_products.htm

are you talking about "gel seal"?

[ricochet112]

are you talking about "gel seal"?

That's it! The brand name is Loctite Gasket Eliminator, OMC calls it Gel Seal. It's so tough to remove that OMC has a special Gel Seal remover that takes off paint and skin and...

But it's completely different than Adhesive (Sealer) M, which is a 3M product.

[jtb]

I use Merc cleaner and degreaser to remove. Also i found it @ pro marine http://www.promarineusa.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=262 they have the 6ml tubes. i don't feel bad when it goes bad on the shelf between uses.

[Tomtall]

Mike - You are right. I was wrong.

I just went out to the shop and read the tube. It is "Gel Seal". I have never really had a problem removing it however. Carb. cleaner and a razor blade have always worked for me. I do know of the release agent your speaking of but have never used it. I personally think the adhesive "M" is a S.O.B. to get off of stuff however. I know we used to have a nickname for it of "Gorilla Snot". I have gone back and corrected my previous post. I thank you for pointing out my error so I could correct it. They say the mind goes first. Thank God for Viagra.;)

[Skoontz]

Thank you guys! As far as an aluminum file, I've had pretty good luck using a 2" thick sheet of glass, a little sand disc adhesive on the back of the sand paper, and 400 grit. Typically I run the sirfaces across in one smooth stroke, then look to see what was removed. When I see scuff marks across evenly across the whole surface, I know it's right. I even shaved a head many years ago that way. Worked real well, dad used to call the glass the Polish Bridgeport.
I'll get some Gel Sealer and I'm betting my issues goes away!

[Michael J Gwaltney]

Thank you guys! As far as an aluminum file, I've had pretty good luck using a 2" thick sheet of glass, a little sand disc adhesive on the back of the sand paper, and 400 grit. Typically I run the sirfaces across in one smooth stroke, then look to see what was removed. When I see scuff marks across evenly across the whole surface, I know it's right. I even shaved a head many years ago that way. Worked real well, dad used to call the glass the Polish Bridgeport.
I'll get some Gel Sealer and I'm betting my issues goes away!
When OMC started using Gel Seal on crankcase halves it was difficult to see if it was clean. Johnson Service school had students take cylinder and crankcase in the conference room. With lights out and using a black light any gel seal residue will glow in the dark. It works!

[Skoontz]

Well, now the plot thickens! I'll journey back to the 60's with the gearfoot and see what it looks like.

Thanks Michael!

[David Mason]

Wire Wheel on your benchtop grinder works well for removing sealants as well. If you surface it, be sure to use a surface plate.

We use a gray sealant made by ThreeBond. It seals gearbox halves well, and also seals crankcases pretty decent. Does not dry completely, and that is a key.

I agree with those that don't reccomend using a file, unless you are really experienced don't do it, and even those very experienced can mess up now and again.

[STEVE FRENCH]

I agree with those that don't reccomend using a file, unless you are really experienced don't do it, and even those very experienced can mess up now and again.

I hear "Lyle-the-file" is very exsperienced...........:D

19P:cool:

[David Mason]

Very experienced at the file techniques.. :D

[Skoontz]

The 15hp A OMC pistons were always "cam" ground, meaning the wrist pin side was .002-.003 under the skirt side. This was supposed to be so that when the piston expands when heated, the hottest part, which are the wrist pins wil expand to the correct diamter. Over time, these reverse ovaled....

The new set of pistons I got last week are not cam ground, they are perfectly round.

Does anyone know if a change was recently made? Because the newest set that just got trashed were purchased in January, and, were cam ground.....

[atver13]

any one know where i can get a aluminum prop for a 1973 Jonson 9.5hp outboard?

[rockster55]

How do you tell what year your a omc motor is? The legal years are 86-92? Rockster

[Tomtall]

If you currently have an OMC "A" race engine go to this link and click on the Special outboards "Race Engines" link (middle of page) to find the year you have by the model #. http://www.maxrules.com/ej_contents.html



If your looking for one to convert to a "A" class race engine look for 1986-1989 model years. Look at the MODEL # and go to this link to find the year you are looking at. Be aware that some early 1986 fishing motors had the incorrect cylinder head for using in the racing classes. Look for the three bolt thermostate cover at the upper portion of the head. You do not want the head with the long water cover plate that runs the full lenghth of the head.

http://www.maxrules.com/OMC_models_files/1980_1999/14_20.html

Good Luck!

[John Taylor]

I have been hearing some chatter out there that OMC is contemplating producing some new generations of stock outboard racing engines for the masses??? Anyone know anything other than the chatter and speculations?

[Tomtall]

John - It would be nice but I would not hold your breath. BRP has several new engines in their 2009 lineup but the smallest Evinrude they will offer is the 25 hp e-tech. At 146 lbs. for a bare bones 15" shaft engines it's a tank. I personally don't see any comp. engines for the stockers in the future do to cost to make verses amount sold. They make more $ in the recreation and fishing markets.

2009 BRP line-up can be seen at http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/

[Mark75H]

I've heard no such rumors

[John Taylor]

Thanks TomTall. Some wishfull thinking out there that would like to see a bone tossed our way from time to time. :)

[Gstillwill]

The only new motor thats avaibale at this time is from Mercury and bought through APBA as a J/AX,AS motor. The 15HP model 2 stroke was discontinued in 2006 but still being built for export. APBA get them out the back door bare bones no tiller or gear foot and converts them for racing. There is a EPA sticker on the block stating for racing use only Every part for this motor is available right from Mercury and will be till at least 2012 or longer. The only other motor is the Sidwinder from Racing Outboards with a base price of 4500.00 with no steering bars. This is for A Stock and B Stock racing.

[John Taylor]

Not a wonderful scene except of the Modifieds and Pro catagories.

With a base price of $4500.00 + for an A or B Sidewinder just how is that engine supposed to get into a market competing against a new Tohatsu D, a Merc 44X, or a the prices in the used engine markets line Yamato 102, 202, 302, or D-Mod, E-Mod or Super E engines out there where sometimes you can buy even a couple of in good service used engines in those catagories or even buy complete and ready to run package deals of hydro or runabout, engine, trailer and props too within the realm of $4500 or a little more into the $6000.00 range.

In these tougher times people are voting with their wallets like never before in recent times. That is the reality.

What ever happened to the support for the existing base of Hot Rod class A and B engines out there that are dying for lack of replacement parts? They are not a group of happy people with running engines after having been fed stories of new support they are left languishing?