The propeller men

[smittythewelder]

Say, Mister Hill, how about a historical thread covering prop-men? Big names like R. Allen Smith would be covered anyway, but if we have a dedicated thread we will get a lot more names.

In Region 10 in the mid-'60s, I guess the most notable local prop-beater was George Lockhart in Tacoma. George was particularly good on JU/JSH props for both the old Merc 60J and whatever the new motor was called, and Janis Lee and (I think) the Downing brothers set records and won championships with Lockhart wheels. I don't recall, but I think George worked some inboard props.

Another local name, I nver met him, was Howard Kreuger (spelling?). He also might have done inboard wheels as well as outboard.

C Service master Hal Tolford worked props for himself and a few others, I believe.

Joe Price, of course, the Papa Smith of Region 10, did all of Tom Scheidt's B/C/DU wheels and built the boats, too, then went to work for the Selvidges and their followers, and deserves a great deal of credit for Craig-Craft's success.

Here's one for old-timers from the South. About 1971, a middle-aged black man named Ira Jones started paying the occasional visit to Bob Gilliam's shop in Bothell, to shoot the breeze with racers. Ira (immediately nicknamed "Swede" by Gilliam), a projectionist by trade, said he had been Art Kennedy's prop-banger for a time. A very likeable guy . . . anybody remember him?

Ron Anderson, along with everything else he has done in outboard racing, was a prop-man, and built a business doing pleasure boat props. About 1975 or '76, Dave Culley, who was working on the Weisfields unlimited, had Ron rework one of their props, but he couldn't get Jerry Zuvich and Bill Schumaker, who were running the show at that point, to try the odd-looking prop built by some outboard guy. Finally they hung it on the shaft and Schumaker took the boat for a spin, and came back saying, "Hey, that thing really goes!," and Culley says, "uh huh."

I had a couple of funny-looking old bronze props in the junk box then, that were stamped, "Oakland-Johnson." I suppose they had something to do with Hi Johnson, a big name that was before my time. Who can tell us about this?

[Mark75H]

I had a couple of funny-looking old bronze props in the junk box then, that were stamped, "Oakland-Johnson." I suppose they had something to do with Hi Johnson, a big name that was before my time. Who can tell us about this?

I can tell you that you are correct, Oakland-Johnsons came from Hi Johnson.


I think this thread is a good idea.

From Florida there was Floyd Hopkins

From Texas, Bauman or Bowman?

From New England ... Craig Dewald

From Italy Molinari and Rolla or was Rolla Swiss?

I think Pop Seebold knew how to bang a blade too

and from California ... Litton who was an early experimenter with cleavers on outboards and large blade area ... sort of like the "new" style cleavers Merc came out with a few years back

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Floyd Hopkins was from Covington, Louisiana just across Lake Poncetrain from New Orleans.

Louie Baumann is a propmaker for big tugs, shrimpboats, etc down to OPC, alky's and also inboard. Louie himself had an inboard hydro.

Also from Houston is Mike Hood. Mike did a lot of OPC stuff and also some for alkies.

John Czaplewski (pronounced chaplooskee) built props out of Chicago. I know he did outboard, but don't know if he did others.

I ran into Tom Moulder at the reunion and I can't remember what he said about props. I think he may have made a few briefly.

I do believe Rolla is Swiss. I have correspondence somewhere.

Marshall Grant made quite a few of his own props. We got several with motors we bought from him. At least one or two were stamped Grant. Man, would I like to have one of those back. Marshall was the one that got us started using airplane rivets for shear pins. The light, tough alloy would give a little with it's tensil strength rather than crack into like the hard shear pins Konig sent.

I seem to remember having a prop to two stamped Blankenstein made by Walt Blankenstein out of Lakeland, Florida.

Dick Carsten's, a Konig dealer out of Houston in the 50's advertised prop work in old Roostertails.

[Skoontz]

is whose prop dad ran on the Rockholt...Thank you for reminding me, Wayne! Just lire Ramco oil, in a 5 gallon tin container, mixed with 100 octane, burned and smelled like cherries....Fond memories of that fuel off the docks at the Westside Boathouse.....

[Ron Hill]

Some names come to mind:

1. Joe Price: Craig Selvidge built some amazing boats that did some amazing things...Joe Price made many props that went on Craig Craft boats...

2. Roy "Smooth Water" Miner: Roy built some very good props, he didn't have Pop Smith's blocks, but he had copies of them. Like many other prop men, some thought Roy's props were PERFECT, others wondered about them...

3. Dr. Wayne R. "Doc" Ingles had some pitch blocks that he and my brother (Russ Hill Jr.) repitched my brother's C Racing hyrdo's prop...I heard at the time, that the pitch blocks had caused a divorce...Maybe, my brother will tell the REAL STORY...

4. Ruben Dawe: Built the prop that Jeff Fritz of Yuma, Arizona, won the 1961 B Stock Hydro Nationals...It was a Michigan, that Merlyn Culver had worked for my brother's D Stock Hydro, and Ruben, after a Jim Beam or two, reworked it on a TRAILER HITCH BALL....The rest is history!!!

5. Merlyn Culver, his props all said, "Culver Aero Marine" stamped on the hub...I never understood why his props worked, as they all seemed to have a rolled off (Reverse cup) on the trailing edge, but my fasted AU Kamic was a CULVER KAMIC!!! (Ran it in AU and A Hydro)...

6. Lee Morehouse: Lee was an SC graduate and went into business with three guys named Hanna, Barberra, and Disney. He quit those guys to build race boats. His wife's dad had been a dentist and when he passed, Lee got his dental tools. Lee ordered OJ blanks with one blade 10 pitch and the other with an 11...Then, he'd grind them with his dental tools...Some of Lee's early props look like Mercury Choppers today. Lee never had a pitch guage or rake guage, but he made some very good propellers.

7. Cliff Bedford: Cliffy was from San Diego, owned a rest home and played with boats and propellers all the time. The developed the hollow transom for stock hydros and runabouts, he made propellers by grinding on them until they went fast. I ran a Cliff Bedford Kamic in DU at the 1959 Seattle Nationals. I got second. Ernie Dawe ran a Cliff Bedford Kamic on his C Hydro at the 1962 Stock Nationals where Ernie was very fast, and had my motor not let him down, he'd have won!!!

8. Jeff Wilson, Leading Edge Propellers: I asked Jeff's dad, Dean if any of his four boys wanted a job for the summer...Dean suggested Jeff. Jeff worked for me for six years. We were as close as father and son. Jeff went to Arizona and started his own business, after a car accident, he return to SoCal. He started Leading Edge Propellers. He did work for Fred Bowden, Gordon Jennings, Dave Rankin and ME... Jeff was a MASTER PROPELLER MAKER. He did work for Doc Collins.

Jeff and his brother, Dean, were heading for Michigan to pick up a 45, about 15 years ago this coming January, when they had an accident and Jeff was killed...Jeff was a wonderful person...I know his brothers, Racersteve, Dean Wilson, and Brian Wilson miss him dearly.

Jeff was one great propeller man...

[Tomtall]

Two others that come to mind -

Harold Nauss - Grand Rapids,Mi. --- R.I.P. ---- Harold raced many classes in powerboat racing. Set records as well. Held different chairs in APBA and was a stuborn technical inspector. Had a small prop buisness in a warehouse in his home town of Grand Rapids. His daughter Beth raced OPC for a while till Harold lost his life to cancer. He was a person that was dedicated to our sport. He left us too soon.:(



Thom & Todd Bucknell -- Hydromotive Eng.
Twinsburg,Oh.

This father and son team have had some very fast OPC equipment in their day. Held many championship titles in SE and SST 60. Thom campaighned a SST 120 when the class first came out. Top notch stuff and NEVER a speck of dirt anywhere.:D Retiring from racing to work on growing the prop buisness Thom and Todd in my opinon have some of the best pleasure and race 3 and 4 blade props on the market today.


A list from the 1995 "APBA" product and service guide book mailed to "APBA" members. (Not current for content !!!)

[Mark75H]

Thanks, Tom ... It was Harry Pinner I was thinking of as being from Florida

[Master Oil Racing Team]

And then there's this guy Steve Glenn from Alba, Texas that makes props. I only heard about him a month ago through BRF. I just looked up about 5 inches to see the ad "Steve's Custom Props".;) :D :cool:

[john lawrence]

Ron France from Grimsby,Ontario should be included along with these special people! John Lawrence

[david bryan]

Ron France from Grimsby,Ontario should be included along with these special people! John Lawrence
is ron france still around

[Ron Hill]

When I saw Dave Bryan (Outboard Racer, Dave Bryan) ask about Ron France....I thought about Bob Davidson... Bob made some very fast propellers...and never sold ojne of them...I understand that Ron France doesn't sell A propellers, but anyone that knows, knows Ron France can make a GREAT WHEEL!

Dave Bryan actaully made some pretty good props, too...

How about Denny Ytrowski....(Help me with the spelling)...

[Tomtall]

is Ron France still around

Yes Ron France is still around, and racing !!! :cool:
He will be at Grass Lake, Michigan this weekend (sept.8th & 9th,07) running his very fast "A" hydro equipment. Ron does it all. Boat builder (my son races one of his hydro's) Engine builder (built with the precision of watch's) and prop man.
Ron was an engineer of airplane propellers when he was younger.
Best wheels in our trailer say "France" on them. Great guy. Always willing to help with good advice.

[bill boyes]

How about Bob Willards dad from Oildale Calif. He really could rework an OJ prop.

[Ron Hill]

Roy Willard drove down from Oildale, California to Lake Los Angeles, with son, Bob Willard, for 39 straight weeks, when we raced on TV..(KTLA-TV Channel 5, Sppedboat Rodeo)... On TV we only raced four classes, but Bobby ran all the classes that were scheduled every weekend...A hydro, C Runabout, B Runabout and D Runabout...

They started with Morehouse boats and DeSilvas....They built their own boats, later.

Ellis Terrill and I spent a lot of time together at races and in the summer... We shot bow and arrows and played Croquet. We called ourselves "The Boat Racing Syndicate". When we raced at San Diego, Roy Willard would take us YOUNGER kids out to the amusement park and ride the roller coaster (Ellis Terrill, Jerry Rodgers, Jack Woodruff, Cecil Baggs, and me...Maybe Tom Nollar...)

Roy and I would ride tin he front seat....Ellis and I had a "BOARD MEETING" and we appointed Roy as VICE PRESIDENT of THE BOAT RACING SYNDICATE...

The next day, at the race, Roy was telling everyone that THE PRESIDENT and THE VICE PRESIDENT of THE BOAT RACING SYNDICATE sat in the front seat of the roller coaster....all night...Roy paid, of course!!!

Roy had an A wheel that had one blade that was an AU Kamic and the other was a BU Kamic, a FACTORY ERROR....Fastest Sum Bitch they had...After I won the Divisionals at Lake Mead, 1956, Roy loaned me their A Motor and A prop for the APBA Nationals in Cambridge, Maryland.

(They had taken my A apart for inspection and my dad was afraid we'd have no time to break it in). So, at the Nationals I ran Roy (Bobby's) Willard's A motor and A prop...I was third, I was 12. Dean Chenoweth won, Billy "The Kid" Schumaker was second, Don Pontius was 4th....

Yes, Bill, Roy could bend a prop....and he was a hell of a nice guy....Of course, I WAS THE PRESIDENT of THE BOAT RACING SYNDICATE!!!!

[Roy Hodges]

When i was an apprentice welder at Mare Island shipyard, i put some time in the propellor shop , which was part of their machine shop . after they cast a new superston prop for a submarine , the machinists work on it about 2000 man hours . They marked off the blades about every square INCH , and checked it with a pitchometer , and then grind and sand it , till perfect . 15 foot diameter - 7 blades ! I doubt anybody is so exact even on factory team race props , well maybe the old Bud unlimited ?................................................. .
just reflecting back, in those days (1967) the prop - finished - cost uncle sam about $250,000. Now ,i bet thats $ 5,000,000 !

[Bill Gohr]

What about Don Henrich, DAH?

Joe Nicellini, Air Marine

George Heslop, Props Unlimited

[Roy Hodges]

I (still) have a D A H prop , i got from Don, in 1976 . A omc 23 " Sport E prop . He cut down the diameter. I did not like it, after borrowing a DAH (omc) V-4 prop & using it on my sport e . I guess my boat ( sport E ) liked that big 25" Pitch v-4 prop . it had speed to burn & accelerate like a scalded cat . Only it did NOT turn . not a circle boat, as it had been ,when (builder -designer , Ken Kusnik ) raced it it "R" class. .................................................. ..
Price , new ? $188.80 , including shipping .

[russhill]

Sorry, Sam, I must respectfully disagree with you the Oakland Johnson and Hi Johnson were the same.

Iver Johnson from Oakland, California made the OJ props and, to the best of my knowledge at least one of his sons is still in the prop biz in the east. I can't remember both kids' names--one was Gary.

Harold I. Johnson or HIJ or HI Johnson repaired props and built the first cleaver I ever saw in 1945. HI had the greatest pitch measuring device ever made. He worked out of Newport Beach, CA.

I am totally sure these were different guys because I remember HI telling me how bad those OJ props were. He had to fix them by putting solder on the blades near the hubs to make the pitch true.

Now I'm speculating--I believe Johnson Oakland props were called JOs(logically) and HI called them OJs as a derogatory name. He was showing me how untrue their pitch was and called them OJ. I, smart *** little 12 year old, corrected him saying, no, JO. He said that was just what he called them. Whatever, the OJ name stuck.

HI was a member of the APBA Honor Squadron.

[Mark75H]

Thanks, Russ. Your informed input is always appreciated. Better to get info from the horse's mouth than the other end;)

[russhill]

Thanks, Sam, my "informed input" is only that anybody who might know I'm wrong is dead, so nobody really knows which end of the horse we're talking about--and, I've never been called a "HORSE'S HEAD".

[bill boyes]

Sorry, Sam, I must respectfully disagree with you the Oakland Johnson and Hi Johnson were the same.

Iver Johnson from Oakland, California made the OJ props and, to the best of my knowledge at least one of his sons is still in the prop biz in the east. I can't remember both kids' names--one was Gary.

Harold I. Johnson or HIJ or HI Johnson repaired props and built the first cleaver I ever saw in 1945. HI had the greatest pitch measuring device ever made. He worked out of Newport Beach, CA.

I am totally sure these were different guys because I remember HI telling me how bad those OJ props were. He had to fix them by putting solder on the blades near the hubs to make the pitch true.

Now I'm speculating--I believe Johnson Oakland props were called JOs(logically) and HI called them OJs as a derogatory name. He was showing me how untrue their pitch was and called them OJ. I, smart *** little 12 year old, corrected him saying, no, JO. He said that was just what he called them. Whatever, the OJ name stuck.

HI was a member of the APBA Honor Squadron. Erick Johnson is the grandson. moved the Business from Oakland to a town in Tennessee. They make a lot of propellers for competition Ski Boats. Wayne Seeberg and Eric are cousins. Eric raced C stock hydro then the Prop tour for a while.

[russhill]

I saw Wayne last week for the first time in 30 years. We talked about the Johnsons--but never knew Wayne was related.

Gary and his brother both raced B Alky hydros, with Johnny Alden inspired Champion Hot Rods

[Ron Hill]

Duane Mudd started D and J and was also an OJ Distributor. Duane turned the business Steve raced Sport C and UJ for a time. over to Steve Mudd and his brother. Steve bought his brother out. Steve closed the business about three years ago.

I still see lots of D & J stamped on inboard props...

[Ron Hill]

Lee was one of Wlt Disney's early partners. Think there was Hanna, Barbarra, Morehouse and Disney. Lee drew Mickey Mouse cartoons, and in many ways his life reflected Mickey Mouse cartoon. Lee loved life and loved boat racing. He built some wonderful boats.

His wife'd dad had been a dentist, and when he passed on Lee ended up with the denatl equipment. Lee would order OJ props and grind the front of the blade to make a cup (I cup props and grind the back, seems easier that way). Lee's big trick was to order one blade a 9 and one a 10. Some of his best props were off by an inch of pitch...When I won D Runabout in 1970, DAH, of OMC props measured my prop the Monday after the Nationals he said he'd never seen such a piece of junk, one blade was a ten, the other a 13.....I told DAH, that the 10 got me off the corners, and the 13 gave me the top end....and HE might think my prop to be junk, but I'd just won the Nationals with a prop that had one blade that wasthree inches more pitch than the other.

My dad called that "Setting one blade ahead of the other...".

ADD: Lee Morehouse, he always had the grinding marks going 90 degrees to the water like little waves, with a big cup....(Down the middle of the blade was a hollow/low drag area, then the cup went all the way around the blade and down the leading edge...).

[palhal]

Phil Rolla was from San Jose, CA.
Harold Kindsvater from Fresno, CA made Menkens Props from 1966 to mid 80s and is still making them on the side. He took the prop speed record from the Italians in the mid 70s at 205 MPH and holds the fastest yet at over 252 MPH. Also he built props for Miller American Unlimited Hydro and won the Gold Cup once with his progressive pitch, Hi rake design which was new to that sport which was carried over from the Drag race design in the mid 80s.

[Ron Hill]

Any chance of doing an interview with him? I get through Fresno several times a year....Interesting stuff about Harold...Thanks!

I always thought Phil Rolla was from like Santa Paula near Santa Barbara...More of a SoCal guy....He worked for Joe marcari (Cary Propellers) before he started Record Propellers, if I'm not mistaken...

ADD:

Who did build the first progress pitch propeller? I know may dad made my Kamic into a propressive pitch prop, but he didn't "MAKE" the prop...just modified it!!! (On Wade Terrill's brass pitch block....with a hammer and his belt between the block and the prop...).

[palhal]

Ron---Harolds phone is (559) 299-2328. My wife and I stayed with Phil Rolla and his wife a couple of days in Lugano, Switzerland in 1966 and he was with Record Propellers then. He said he was from San Jose.

Al Menkens from Long Beach made the first steel progressive pitch prop. He also made the first all fiberglass race boat(cracker). It was in 1946 if my memory serves me right. I remember him saying he had to drive across LA to get the catalyz which was in powder form and mixed it up in the kitchen sink. He laid up the glass over a cracker box and pulled it off and finished it like that without making a mold. He left it clear and you could see the sunlight thru it.

He also made aluminum rods for his Studebaker engine that went into the Cracker.

When it came to the bronze props that everyone was using, he knew that wasn't good enough so he formed 4130 steel blades and welded the blades to a hub and finished it and ran it without heat treat. That was the beginning of Menkens Props. Hi Johnson, who was in the LA area somewhere could never figure out how to obtain the progressive pitch in his props which were a casting. This was told to me by Al Menkens who I knew well.

Al Menkens was one of the smartest men I ever met. He was the only one that could overhaul Mercedes fuel injectors and the only person in the whole LA area that could grind a hugh ships crankshaft. This was all done in his garage in Long Beach.

[Ron Hill]

Interesting stuff...Hi Johnson's prop equipment is still in use at Triple A Propellers in Costa Mesa, California. I used to hang out there every now and then when Rinney was still alive...He had worked for Hi Johnson...But they never could explain the pitch of a prop except TRUE/TOTAL pitch...The pitch guages I have used forever, will measure the pitch in one spot....Right or wrong, I tend to agree with Al Menkins that HI J's were never progressive pitch...

OJ (Oakland Johnson) Propellers made by Iver Johnson were cast outboard props with progression...

Where is Phil Rolla now days???

Thanks for posting...any pictures of stuff??

[palhal]

Don't know where Phil Rolla is. I have one black and white old picture of Al Menkens holding a prop some where in my house.