J/A OMC Gearcases... Question

[Ron Hill]

Frank Zorkan told me the Mercury had bought all the new OMC gearcases that Hot Rod had made. This didn't seem right, but I told him I'd find out.

He and I were discussing my desire to have him build me a boat for my 15 Class. He wanted to trade me a boat for an J/A OMC motor, if I still had one. I said I didn't, but I'd buy a new geracase and make one.....if they ever make them...

Then, Frank said, "Mercury bought them all."


Anyone know the real "SCOOP"?

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Frank Zorkan told me the Mercury had bought all the new OMC gearcases that Hot Rod had made. This didn't seem right, but I told him I'd find out.

He and I were discussing my desire to have him build me a boat for my 15 Class. He wanted to trade me a boat for an J/A OMC motor, if I still had one. I said I didn't, but I'd buy a new geracase and make one.....if they ever make them...

Then, Frank said, "Mercury bought them all."


Anyone know the real "SCOOP"?
Ron,

Ask Cooper Jess or Ernie Dawe. I believe that they were part of the Lease to/or buy through APBA. I also believe that this has gone away with Ron Selawach buying Hot Rod from Moulder. And last comment, supposedly the first new gear cases from Ron are those that are on back order for "A" class racers.

[Ron Hill]

Ok, I'll race "A"... The season is AROUND the corner....what does BACK ORDER mean???

I will call Ernie...was going to give him a day or two to recover from Florida.....(He drives like a carzy man, probably, been home since Tuesday!!!

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Ok, I'll race "A"... The season is AROUND the corner....what does BACK ORDER mean???

I will call Ernie...was going to give him a day or two to recover from Florida.....(He drives like a carzy man, probably, been home since Tuesday!!!
Demand, orders outstanding, no supply!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ron Hill]

When will the back orders be filled? How long? Any idea of price?

How many are they making...?

Hell, Jake made the 45 gearcases, with my help, in about 6 weeks....maybe longer...but a re order could be done in weeks.

If I had the blue prints, I'm make them... I make a lot of "CLONES" ....with improvements...

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

When will the back orders be filled? How long? Any idea of price?

How many are they making...?

Hell, Jake made the 45 gearcases, with my help, in about 6 weeks....maybe longer...but a re order could be done in weeks.

If I had the blue prints, I'm make them... I make a lot of "CLONES" ....with improvements...
I was told at least some of the answers to your questions, but don't want to guess on a public board. Ron Selawach would be the one to answer your question(s), or perhaps Cooper might know.

[Ron Hill]

FYI:

Ed Runne is doing the machine work on 30 J/A castings. He says they should be ready in two months. Price will be around $900..

[kws]

you should be able to get bare castings from Tad Olson in Rockford IL. if you want to machine your own . i will look for his email& phone if you want them

[Ron Hill]

Are you sure about the A/J housings??

[kws]

he had a bare casting of a J/A gearfoot sitting on the table @ Oskosh last fall and told me he was casting them in his foundry.
i am looking for his email ( i was infected by some virus around the first of the year, had to reinstal OS and lost his address. but i think i have a hard copy somewere) I FOUND IT!!! but i think i will pm it to you instead of just posting it

[17W]

It is not practical to finish machine your own individual casting if you can buy direct from Tad. KWS do you have a clue how much work is involved? Unless you or your local machine shop is tooled to perform such finish machineing, you are pissing up a rope!

[mercguy]

It is not practical to finish machine your own individual casting if you can buy direct from Tad. KWS do you have a clue how much work is involved? Unless you or your local machine shop is tooled to perform such finish machineing, you are pissing up a rope!

take it easy on him Brent, he is just trying to provide some info.

[kws]

thanks mercguy :)
hey big o, yes, i have even worked in a tool room for a while so i do have a real good idea how much work goes into a project like that .but thats not the point just look up the thread a bit Ron said he would build them from a blueprint.
if he wants to machine them from billet fine with me. but i wanted him to know where he could get a casting if he would rather go that route
btw i believe Tad told me he was not going to machine the castings to complete units but would rather sell the casting to someone else to be finished. if i am wrong about that, then by all means buy the completed foot from Tad
PS
i hope you are in better humor when you read this post than you were the last one :) :)

[Ron Hill]

My dad use to make one lowerunit at a time. A local shop here made the current new 45 gearcases on his CNC Mill. Once the program is set up....whcih is getting easier daily, small runs ain't that expensive.

My real point was: If NO ONE is making them, I would. But I ran down the info, and Ed Runne is working on them as we speak..

I will point out again, I see no reason to race "RACING" gearcases....when we have perfectly good production gearcase for seriously cheap prices...

A new 45 gearcase is $1,500. I bought a 45 PRODUCTION gearcase and mid section for $150.00. And I'll bet money, that, if allowed, a production gearcase in 45 could win on these 37 second Series Courses.....because of their gear ratio...

But, I'm not trying to change A/J or 45...I'm starting two new classes 15 and 36 runabout...and we'll see what happens...

My 15 comlete motrs will be cheaper the an J/A gearcase...

Yes, let's TRY to stay in good moods....though, it is hard at times!!!

[17W]

I apologize for being so harsh. Tad is only providing the casts. Ron is correct & Ed Runne is handling the finishing process.

[kws]

No Problem Brent, have a good day :D :D

[Ron Hill]

Ed Runne at SLED7J@earthlink.net
is building maching the cases. But the pricing will come from Ron Schelwech....help me with the speeling and a contact number...

[David Mason]

I tried to purchase a Merc J yesterday from APBA. The engines are ready to go minus throttle linkage on the conversion kit. Those are being produced from an outside source. The cost of the Merc J is $1995.00 from APBA. This is minus the gear box.

The gear box is still being worked on and there is a possiblitiy it could be done by the end of this month I was told. No guarentees. Projected costs will be around $900.00 or more.

I have a boy ready to race J hydro at the start of the season, so I went for the only real option, OMC. Much cheaper and available, used of course. We all know used is a realtive term...... being boat racers used can be made better than new ever was.

[David Mason]

Thanks Darren,

Found a rig for $2000.00, boat motor and prop. And within a 45 minute drive of home to.

Dave

[mercguy]

Thanks Darren,

Found a rig for $2000.00, boat motor and prop. And within a 45 minute drive of home to.

Dave

that's awesome Dave! That is a great price.....go get em'

[Ron Hill]

But what if someone else wanted to start? That is why I'm still pushing a 15 STOCK GEARCASE CLASS!

[Gstillwill]

The only problem with running a stock gear case is that they turn the wrong way for a race boat making left hand turns. The prop will cavitate in the turn and on a hydro it will drop the right sponson which in turn you will be swimming. Take a pleasure boat and make a sharp left turn and it will do the same thing just because the fat gear foot blocks the water to the prop. Compairing the price of a new Merc from APBA to the cost of buying a used OMC is like compairing apples to oranges. My two Mercs I bought used 9.9 fishing motors which are the same as the 15 except for the carb and tuned pipe in the tower which cost about 170.00 for both new. There are alot more 9.9's around then 15's which make them more reasonable and you can resell the stuff you dont need and get back about 1/3 of the cost of the motor. A stock 9.9/15 gear foot lists from Mercury for 1200.00 so getting 300.00 to 400.00 for a good used one isnt out of the question. Here is the break down for the cost of both my motors.
2001 9.9.........................cost 800.00
new carb and pipe...................170.00
APBA conv kit.........................545.00
sub total cost.......................1515.00
Sold stock gearcase and tiller...-350.00
total cost less racing gear foot.1165.00

1999 9.9.........................cost 575.00
new carb and pipe...................170.00
APBA conv kit.........................545.00
sub total cost........................1290.00
Sold stock gear foot and tiller.....300.00
total cost less racing gear foot...990.00

Two motors for about what a new one cost from APBA
and I have always found a used seasoned motor is faster then a brand new one.

[Ron Hill]

IF the stock gearcase had a nosecone, which could easily be made of epoxy, then it will turn. (We ran MOD VP's with right hand rotation props at 15 X 32 ...15 diameter, 32 pitch...we got around the corners...) Also, IF the stock gearcase was made legal, someone would figure out a prop. And IF the stock gearcase was made legal, guys would change the designe of their boats and IF the designs changed, boat might not turn over at an alarming rate....

But, George makes some good points!!!

[Seagull 170]

Ever since you started this site Ron, I've read a stream of posts discussing gear case problems.
Why don't we start from scratch & design a complete box that could almost be built at home from commercially available cheap components.
Starting with suitable bevel gears, splined for the pinion & perhaps pinned for the prop shaft, then add bearings that are up to the job.
These could be cased in 2 lengths of stainless bar for the prop shaft & pinion casing, easily worked on by almost any home workshop, & threaded together where access to the bearings is required.
Now weld them together with fillets for strength & a skeg on the bottom & a top plate to suit the leg & perhaps even a water pump.
Now all that remains is to encase it in epoxy until it looks suitably sexy.

All this info could be like the Linux operating system free to anyone providing all their developments are published for every interested party to use.
It might even awake a whole new generation of lake racers who want to make dads old 9.9 sing.
The knowledge is out there, let's try & bring it together before it's lost.

[Mark75H]

I don't think the total price could be made much less than the cost of currently available racing lower units: Bass and Konny ... each available for less than $1500 new. Yamato 302 cases and used 102/202 cases are available for $500 or less

The gears would still be a problem; to avoid being monsterously large they must be hard or hardened / suitable to be hardened to begin with and that makes them expensive. I know of no off the shelf gears that would work other than those already being made for racing lower units. Sending them out individually is very expensive and risky. The way hardening is done professionally is to do batches and destroy a sample from each batch to test the batch for quality assurance ... adding to the cost of the whole precess, but dramatically increasing quality and consistancy ... you throw out bad batches .... ouch!

The welded shafting scheme sounds good, but I doubt it could be done even in a professional fully equiped machine shop. The alignment would be super critical. Regular steel shafts aren't hard enough to run needle bearings directly on them .... using all ball bearings would make the whole thing monsterously large, require more machining and welding and defeat the purpose. The number of people with the tools and skills to successfully build your welded steel idea at home is probably less than 20. Having it done at a shop at $75-$200 per hour is gonna get most people right back to the $1500 they could plunk down on a Bass or Konny or 3 Yamatos.

[Seagull 170]

Type bevel gears into your search engine.
They are made all over the world in every material you can think of & seem to be cheap.
Splined shafts are often available from the same suppliers, hardened & ground waiting for a hardened steel sleave to run your needles or rollers on.

They might not be man enough for a 250 hp powerhead but there ought to be several that could handle up to 50hp.

It's the casing that's the hard bit hence the suggestion of the threaded & welded stainless & can be made thinner than the conventional aluminium ones due to its much better strength properties so all the internal components can be changed on a regular basis before they start screaming, if the bits are cheap, change them every 5 races or whatever.

Stainless welding here in the UK usually costs less than $60 per hour.

The prop shafts could be ordered in stainless & machined to a size to fit the cheapest suitable prop & it might be cheaper to change the gear ratio rather than the prop, that way internal problems would be spotted before they become a major drama.

This is just an idea that I'm hoping an engineering student will take up & come up with a design for a low cost unit that is home buildable & would fit straight on the bottom of Ron's 15hp motor as the next step up the ladder.

[hydroplanes]

current motors are built using the same platform invented 100 years ago. That in itself seems odd. Especially for racing motors, where real innovation usually occurs. Where as, in boat racing.. small boat racing, the innovation seems to be going backward, where motors are concerned.
The 44xs.. 20 years old, The Hotrod.. 30 years old, Bass seems to be looking forward.. sorta.

There's 7/8" universals around these days that'll take 140 ft/lbs of torque.
Now if one arranged 2 of the 70 degree type, they would be lightly loaded and easily make the 90 degree turn required. Of course then it's direct drive. 1:1 and right handed, unless you spin the motor backward. Which is an ignition change on a reed valve 2 stroke. There's probably 10 good ways to do it. Most just follow the 100 year old platform. my 2 cents

[Ron Hill]

Hydroplanes,

I don't know you from a hole in the ground, but you are SO RIGHT ON...

Sam mentioned big gears...Anyone ever look at RC Boats? They use a GIANT SKEG and run the gearcase above the water. Hell, RC's run backward around the course. Why can we run right hand propellers and run backward around the course too???

The problem is US!!!!

I was looking at a 2006 Honda Generator Motor with a flex shaft. Pontica's had a flex shaft in 1964.

The closest thing I've seen to innovation is those 8 HP Bath Tubs...

My "PROBLEM" with the BASS "D".....is my same "PROBLEM" with the 44 XS....TOO DAMN FAST...

The BASS would be really COOL on a 6 inch longer tower, then, this could be run on a 45 SS hull with a capsule.

Go Karting has EXPLODED wih ngrowth. Has any area of BOAT RACING LOOKED AT GO KARTS RULES to see maybe they have some COOL IDEAS.....Like they have a MANITORY AIR BOX (In some classes)...They have a REQUIRED MUFFLER (TUNNER) in some classes.


The Hot Rod was new in circa 1956...and in California it was called a "TIN CAN MONSTER"...They were expensive to make run, expensive to keep running...

I'm hoping the NEW HOT ROD will be GREAT...but...

[kws]

we have been running fishing motors for 5 years at a local race (9.9) most are really 15's. and at the slower speeds that they run turning has not been a problem in fact we have 1 RIGHT HAND CORNER (gasp) and with a race boat the lefts are still easyer than the right hander even tho the prop turns the wrong way. just my 2 pesos worth( probably not worth 2 cents lol)

[hydroplanes]

KWS.. Sir, you are correct. I ran a 700X Merc on a Hydro. It was a right hand ssm. The prop was a 9x13. And it still turned left decent. A right hand prop would really lend itself to flat turning a runabout. It's just not that critical, unless your worried about hydro records.

[hydroplanes]

Dear Mr. Hill,

well my names Mike, I grew up on the Susquehanna. Literally, as my father had a lease on a camp site in the middle of the river. And that's where we spent summers till I was 12, when Agnes came along and destroyed everything, including leases on the islands. After my 2 bros returned from Nam, Dad and they went drag racing. And I went along. Eventual, I moved to within site of that old island. I see it when I look out my front window.
And of course boats are my favorite recreation. Sam got me involved in hydros, after he discovered i had restored a Merc 700x. And the good folks around the east here, let me bring it out and run it. I gave up actively racing, due to 2 very young kids. And seeing a few too many crashes.
I finished school, Did vo-tech drafting, went to Penn State for Mechanical Engineering ( didn't finish).. my favorite tool is my 1953 Diamond mill. or maybe my 1940s Craftman drill press. that pretty well covers me.

[Ron Hill]

I went to Harv De Grace, Maryland, Christmas of 2000....Only spent a day there..went to the Duck Decoy Museum...LOVED THAT PLACE...the river...