Merc 60 already being raced in the UK

[HRTV]

Could someone please refresh my memory and tell me why the 60 has not come to the states yet ?

http://www.hydroracer.net/Merc60/Merc60/index.html

Thanks

[Mark75H]

I'm not sure it was the UK, but it was Europe (I'm pretty sure your pictures are Germany).

The reason is ... APBA just wrote the rules this year ... kinda like the D Stock Mk58/Merc 500 thing ... you can't race until you have the rules and you don't make them up mid year (remember, APBA's racing year is November 1 thru October 31).

[Mark75H]

Its in this thread: http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6143

[HRTV]

Its in this thread: http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6143

That's it thanks, so I wonder what stage this is in for US racing ? still pending rules, regulations, boat builders suppliers etc. "I'm asking I don't know" :)

[Mark75H]

I guess the person to ask is the OPC chairman ... contact info is in the front of Propellor every month

[Lars Strom]

I just read that UIM roles that Formula Mercury must be namned
SL 60 and the World Championship is next month in Sweden.

From www.nolimit.se homepage.
Sundsvall, new Venue for Formula Mercury/ SL60 World Championship & Formula 2000
Sundsvall is the town replacing Karlshamn for the World Championship race in Formula Mercury / SL60. It has been a long fight to find the right Town, possible to race at same date July 19. Now it is settled and beleive me, it will also be good for the sport itself to be established also in middle of Sweden, at the Capital of Norrland.

[Lee Motorsports]

Seems like ONE of the hurdles for the US is a boat builder. Has that one been cleared yet?

[Lars Strom]

This is a Danish boat, built by Molgard

[Mark75H]

Seems like ONE of the hurdles for the US is a boat builder. Has that one been cleared yet?

Again, I'd say the person in the know would be the OPC chair

[HRTV]

Again, I'd say the person in the know would be the OPC chair

Sam is right no point in all of us just guessing, If I have time tomorrow I will make a few phone calls.

Mercury Racing
N7480 County Road UU
Fond du Lac, WI 54935
Phone: 920-921-5330
FAX: 920-921-6533

[tthibodaux]

The U.S. based F-1 ChampBoat Series is planning to bring the Mercury FormulaFour series concept to the states in 2009. ChampBoat promoter Mike Schriefer envisions the Mercury 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard and the FormulaFour class concept as the breath of life that U.S. outboard tunnel boat racing is in dire need of. Schriefer plans to launch a powerboat racing school featuring 12 identical turn-key spec boats. The school will be used to promote safety first with new state-of-the-art race boats and power. The school will enable “graduates” to rent or buy the boats for competition in the new ChampBoat Series F-4 class.

http://www.mercuryracing.com/outboards/60efiformularace.phpNot to damper anyones spirits but my dad and Gary Garbreck tried that back in the 80's and nothing happened. Tons of time and money went into the school and dad went out to California to a car racing school to get an idea of how it should work but NOBODY would come. I'm not sure that a school with OMC backing would be any different than a boat driving school today. Fact is, a new rig with a new 4 stroke 60hp is just to damn expensive for a new racer to race.. a guy trying to get into the sport on average just doesn't have $10.000 to spend on his first race boat.

[tthibodaux]

Seems to be a hit in Germany so far, this photo was taken earlier this month.Again, not to disagree but racing as a whole works overseas. Those guys just want to and can afford to race. Here in the US we have to face the facts that for what ever reason it's just not that big of a sport. Don't get me wrong, I wish it was but it isn't and isn't going to be any time soon. In Europe they race anything they can find with a motor on it and the class is huge. In the states we are lucky to have 3 big OPC classes. It's not me it's just the facts.

[sst45jefff]

I agree with Tim & the current state of the economy and price of fuel is not going to help.

[HRTV]

Jeff & Tim and others

I did not start this thread to ask for opinions on weather or not you thought this might work here in the states, I was only asking what the status was here in the US. I had no idea it had even started in Europe but looking at the photos and reading the information on other web sites it seems to have been received well in Germany and other European countries.


Yeah I know just mention racing anything in the US and it is automatically labeled a failure before it even starts. *Sarcasm* :rolleyes:

[tthibodaux]

Jeff & Tim and others

I did not start this thread to ask for opinions on weather or not you thought this might work here in the states, I was only asking what the status was here in the US. I had no idea it had even started in Europe but looking at the photos and reading the information on other web sites it seems to have been received well in Germany and other European countries.Ok.. Then the status is NONE. Not going to happen. Like I said before, we have classes now that aren't working so no need to add another that cost to much money to race.

Besides, if we were to add a new starter class to OPC it would need to be a new SST45 type class with left hand rotation to actually teach new drivers how a tunnel boat handles and turns and not another SST60 type class with a stock gearcase that drives NOTHING like what a 120 or CHAMP boat would when they move up to race.

Sorry to have highjacked your thread but you asked why it hasn't caught on in the US and I answered.

[Mark75H]

Tim, your response is not logical. The boats have not been built, the motors not sold. This class will not run in the US until the 2009 season. As far as the technical aspects of the boats and motors ... it is already successfully running in Europe, fact, not argument.

Again, there is this theory that money is no object (evidenced by the costs to race in other motorsports), availability of complete racing rigs is the main problem keeping people out of boat racing.

We must go down this road and learn this lesson one way or the other and then proceed the logical direction after obtaining the data.

Although there is some historical data leaning both ways ... please try to see this expensive effort by the OPC commission and Mercury as a positive thing and possible working solution to bring in new racers and speak of it in that light ... at least until the outcome is known in 2010 ... then you are welcome to add your "I told ya so" :)

Everyone, please admit it is possible ... give it a chance before poo poo'in it

[tthibodaux]

Tim, your response is not logical. The boats have not been built, the motors not sold. This class will not run in the US until the 2009 season.

Again, there is this theory that money is no object (evidenced by the costs to race in other motorsports), availability of complete racing rigs is the main problem keeping people out of boat racing.

We must go down this road and learn this lesson one way or the other and then proceed the logical direction after obtaining the data.

Although there is some historical data leaning both ways ... please try to see this expensive effort by the OPC commission and Mercury as a positive thing and possible working solution to bring in new racers and speak of it in that light ... at least until the outcome is known in 2010 ... then you are welcome to add your "I told ya so" :)

Please admit it is possible ...Ok, I agree with you. Sorry Dan.. Just seen this so many times before and the thought of a new class taking yet another couple boats from already dieing classes just sucks. It would be nice in my opinion if we could get all the SST60 guys and the SST45 guys to meet in the middle and all somehow race the same class and then we would have something going to grow and help the sport.

[HRTV]

Tim, your response is not logical. The boats have not been built, the motors not sold. This class will not run in the US until the 2009 season. As far as the technical aspects of the boats and motors ... it is already successfully running in Europe, fact, not argument.

Again, there is this theory that money is no object (evidenced by the costs to race in other motorsports), availability of complete racing rigs is the main problem keeping people out of boat racing.

We must go down this road and learn this lesson one way or the other and then proceed the logical direction after obtaining the data.

Although there is some historical data leaning both ways ... please try to see this expensive effort by the OPC commission and Mercury as a positive thing and possible working solution to bring in new racers and speak of it in that light ... at least until the outcome is known in 2010 ... then you are welcome to add your "I told ya so" :)

Please admit it is possible ...


Thanks Sam

Someone with a postive outlook gets my vote any day of the week.

[HRTV]

Ok, I agree with you. Sorry Dan.. Just seen this so many times before and the thought of a new class taking yet another couple boats from already dieing classes just sucks. It would be nice in my opinion if we could get all the SST60 guys and the SST45 guys to meet in the middle and all somehow race the same class and then we would have something going to grow and help the sport.

Tim,

I dont think you are reading this correctly, this has never been done before! you dont have to buy anything! "rent or buy" yes the Mercury racing truck has been around for years which allowed Champ boat drivers and the like to lease motors etc. but when has there ever been a rental program for a turn key boat? give it a chance they are trying and moving forward with a postive attitude.


From the Mercury Press release:

Back to the Future
The 60 EFI FormulaRace features a production 60 h.p. four-cylinder powerhead mounted on a short (15” - 381 mm) shaft, die-cast mid section with race-inspired solid upper and lower mounts. Power is transferred to the water through the production 1.83:1 gearcase. A line of Mercury Racing Lab Finished® stainless steel propellers are available. An accessories kit sold with the engine includes competition steering bars.

The 15” mid section, five inches shorter than a normal (20”- 508 mm) model, lowers the engine’s center of gravity. The lower center of gravity, combined with solid engine mounts, enhances boat handling and overall performance.

North American tunnel boat racing is stagnant in regards to new entries into the sport. Entry level classes currently feature antiquated “dirty” OMC 45 & 60 race engines which have been out of production for years. Turn-key, entry-level equipment is non-existent.

The U.S. based F-1 ChampBoat Series is planning to bring the Mercury FormulaFour series concept to the states in 2009. ChampBoat promoter Mike Schriefer envisions the Mercury 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard and the FormulaFour class concept as the breath of life that U.S. outboard tunnel boat racing is in dire need of. Schriefer plans to launch a powerboat racing school featuring 12 identical turn-key spec boats. The school will be used to promote safety first with new state-of-the-art race boats and power. The school will enable “graduates” to rent or buy the boats for competition in the new ChampBoat Series F-4 class.

[catndahats]

For all the good reasons stated:

I think the new class is a great idea! And, when (not if) it gets going here, if promoted properly to the general boating public and not just to the few people in this country that are already racing, I'd expect the new class could really draw some interest and new blood into the sport!

I give it a thumbs up!

[Barry Strawn]

We should all hope Mercury is more successful in this venture than they have been in getting racers to abandon their antiquated "dirty" SST120 race engines which have been out of production for years and start racing the new Optimax race engine.

[Fast Fred]

had one in the test tank just to other day, a 20". i don't think it's guna "FLY".

[mercboy175]

if promoted properly

Key words for tunnel boat racing in general.

[Skoontz]

I am cautiously optimistic about this program...

The reason racers won't abandon the old engines, which by the way are not nearly as dirty as the bogus governmental study has the lemmings believe,
( no offense to anyone by saying that intended) is that no one was ever asked for a viable solution to the EPA knit wittery and government as always felt it knew best, and just acted.

As with all governmental regulations, they could have done it right by simply asking those who use the engines what they would prefer to see happen, and a far better solution could have been come up with. If anyone thinks for a nano second that manufacturers would rather be making bumpstick motors than two stokes, guess again. I would love to see new pollution numbers using current oils for example with woe is me hug a tree gas. The study used to regulate and cause the demise of the two cycle as we all knew it, was from statistics taken 30 years ago, with leaded fuels. At that time, those numbers were stepped all over, because as usual, they could not make their case.

Now that the production lines are being butchered into the new ways, this crap is going to be here to stay at least until someone shows the old way was better, as usually happens with everything.

So, if this is what racing is supposed to evolve to, it is better than nothing, but I'm not sure how much right now..

Add one more scary thing...With the state of the fuel situation, and may racers pulling back a bit, getting people to buy into a new expensive design might just be a self destruction unit in itself no matter how good it is to see.

It's a bold step to say the very least at this particular juncture in time.

[FrenchPhil]

In France the class has limited success since they race with S850's & speeds are very different. The Hulls, usually ex-S850, are too light to take on the extra motor weight& are stern heavy. However if gas prices keep climbing they only get more popular with racers although as a spectator they are not very exciting to watch. There's another V class, "Promo Cup" that uses the same motors. Here, Evinrude has been more active in Offshore than in Inshore unfortunately. But at least that leaves Mercury still promoting Inshore racing.

[Fast Fred]

had a stocker 850 Yamaha in the tank, that Merc got Zero for it.
but for a beginner,it would be nice.


some one please tell me how a hull that weighs more with less power is guna save fuel. cuzz i'm so not seein it:eek:

whos got the Hemi Outboard:eek::cool:

[Techteam]

Tim,

I don't think racing in Europe is in any better shape than in the US. While we continue with outdated classes which use equipment which is getting harder and harder to obtain all we are doing is slowly strangling the sport. We have to get a situation where the average guy can walk into a dealer or buy direct from the governing body a new package which is reliable and competitive. Gas over here is now around $9.36 a gallon for standard pump fuel so getting to races is now really the biggest cost. It's going to get a whole lot harder. It won't be much longer now until the environmentalists ban 2 strokes altogether so if we don't go green then powerboat racing could disappear overnight. The only way forward is to phase out the outdated classes. 2010 Green classes only, those dyed in the wool racers will find the money from somewhere we always do and at least anybody who wants to start up can buy new gear.

[john miffco]

your right on target techteam

last yr there were 63 sst 120s here in the states
this yr 38
the economy is going fast worldwide

2006-2007 i tried to bring a new spin for the mini gt class here
using a sealed from the store 4 stroke
building a new hull to maximize what the motor had to offer
to bring in new drivers with no motor experience to be able to buy 1

was a commissioner then,,so took it to our chairman
asked racers as i traveled the country thier thoughts
of 1 hull design,,,and a sealed 4 stroke
that can be store bought as a turn key rig

opc was not enthused to try to promote it
my response from 80% of drivers argued the 4 stroke sealed motor program
so i shelved the idea,,,,,,,,,,,

here parts are more abundant
the omc 45&60 have reproduction parts being made
to keep them going
sst120 merc still selling parts in 2008
no more blocks to be produced,,,there are still bolcks in stock till all sold
so the willingness to go green is rejected harder than overseas

but for a boat racing future
something needs to be done to bring in new drivers with no motor experience
merc is trying with the opti200 and the 60
i tried with smaller 15&25
if we dont give the merc motors a try,,,,
merc is a business,,and the racing division is not a profitable division
sooner than later it will go away without world support of the new products
when the merc board of directors dont see any sales
program cut,,,,,,,not good,,,,,,,,,,

we may not like the less punch,less raw hp,,,quieter motors
but by 2010 it could be gone if
opc here dont get off butt,,,,,,,,and for 1nce"""""""and promote boat racing""""""""""
and us support the new technology that the only motor manufacturer
still making racing motors to keep the racing division from being cancelled

[Fast Fred]

the 60hp 4 choker is not a replacement class for any thing. just an entry level class for New racers. show somethin New that is not a big compromise to the term Racin.

So to hear what your sayin is in 2010 (two years from now) APBA will be tree hugger racin only, Slow and borin, well good luck with that. don't think you'll get to many takers on that.

green racing, lead balloons, square wheels.

[john miffco]

no 1 ever yet on this thread
has said its a replacement class
it is a whole new class
has already been approved by opc at last annual meeting

2010 a lot of emmission standards hit america
car manufacturers already scrambling
trying to get rid of big gas hogs they cannot sale
gm down 18%,,,ford down 40%,chrysler down 48%
they have to hit gpm minimum in 2010
so a lot will be changing when these standards hit

thats all im saying
not wanting to get into a discussion of old motors
i like the old motors ,,,,ive been building v6 mercs since 1981
but nothing last forever
the old motors are slowly being taken off lakes 1 state at a time by the epa
im a realist
john

[Fast Fred]

Fred likes New stuff, "wares the Beef", ya you may not remember that one.
Guess it all comes down to what racin means to you.


green racin, sugar free ice cream made with skim milk. lose the Green crap,
made with sugar and cream and forethought of purpose.think any of them engineers was thinkin of the term Racin when thay thought up any of the production stuff of today? i don't.:cool:

[sst45jefff]

How many other racing motorsports worry about there motors being green ? Or meeting the new enviromental standards.
Why is boatracing worrying about it ?

[Techteam]

You see what I mean !!

I want to reply to both Fred and Jeff.

Fred

Depends what YOUR definition of "racin" is. Your definition is to tune something to within an inch of it's life and go try blow everybody off the water, ok for the very talented few such as yourself but what a lot of other people call cheque book racing.

My definition of racing is to "hopefully" have 20 boats in a class that are all dicing for a podium position at every race and I mean EVERY race, not because 3 of them are waiting for parts so 3 others don't go and it's a long way to travel for three more if six of them are not going so the organiser says scratch that class because there are not enough entrants. Racing is the spectacle of tight honest racing not just how fast you go.

Jeff

Like it or not we love a MINORITY sport that is poorly represented. This isn't an attack on the great many people that give up a lot of time and effort to represent and organise the sport it's just a fact of life. Believe you me for every 10 people who shout out for powerboat racing there are 10,000 screaming green. We do not have privately owned dedicated race tracks we beg borrow steal water time normally from the very organisations who have the worst green track record but try to enforce it on us rigidly. I know I've been there I live in an area with the biggest lake in the country which now has a 10mph speed limit. It doesn't matter that it wrecked the local economy, put thousands of people out of work and destroyed businesses that were 100's of years old because the only BUZZ word out there at the moment is ENVIRONMENT. Remember an elected official has COMPLETE immunity with every decision, it does not effect them, their pocketbook or livelihood whatsoever, all they want to be is popular with as many people as possible.


So it's time to wake up. We can carry on as we are and slowly strangle the life blood from the sport or we can try and change. Choice is yours.

[Sutter's Gold Jr.]

In my opinion, the key point that John touched on is the profitability of the Brunswick Corporation (Mercury). They are accountable to their shareholders and if you recently read their headlines you can ascertain they are extremely concerned with profitability (like all public companies).

http://www.brunswick.com/news/newsstories/release/1/1169657.php

If OPC worldwide does not support their new engine programs in the future this sport we all love will continue to struggle along much the same way the unlimiteds have struggled because they race obsolete turbines. My guess would be if OPC globally supported Mecury's new engine programs to some degree they would have the additional resources to step up their support to boatracing.

I realize this is a complicated/sensitive topic and their is not a perfect solution for all parties, but supporting the only engine manufacturer and making it possible for a newcomer to enter sport with relative ease at a reasonable cost will add to the boatcount.

By the way, I would be extremely interested in the 60 program that was laid out earlier in this string. My main issue at this stage in my life is time. If I had the option to fly into a race site and lease a competitive turn key outfit for the weekend I would definitely be interested. I do this currently with Skip Barber racing cars, but would prefer boats.

[cnunez55]

I would think that going to 4-strokes would also make it easier for other manufactures to get involved! If that happens the growth of the sport is unlimited. Motocross pops in my head when I think of 4-strokes vs 2-strokes! Everyone despised them at first but now you have to run a 4-stroke to be competitive. Yes they have twice the cc's and probably use atleast the same amount of gas but it worked and the sport is only getting bigger! I can only dream that our sport can reach the level that they have obtained!

[john miffco]

curtis is correct on the motorcross
2 strokes are gone,,,at this yrs supercross here there was 1 lone 2 stroker
and was not a leader,,,,,,,,,,
car racing they have been putting in restrictors and mixing cleaner burning fuels
to get the emissions down to satisfy the cities,states and epa
not just to slow the cars down from better technology

in boats the raw fuel/oil goes directly into the water
thus green people are putting lots of pressure on the cities
thus many states now do not allow carbed motors in lakes
as said putting mph limits to take off the larger motors

we as boater dont like it
it kills income for business sorrounding the shores
it takes a potential boater out of the euquasion when they have no place to go run a boat

epa has standards that the boat motor manufacturer has to follow
so what can be done when it is 2008 and they have future standard to meet

this thread is about the 60 being released
i wish it well over there
it needs to be a sucess
so will be released over here in 2009

[Lars Strom]

First,

I think it is very good that Mercury is willing to spend some money in Outboard Racing.
At the Miami Boat show 2008 I asked more or less all the Outboard factories if they where interested
to market there Outboards thru Racing and the answer was no, at that time.

Mercury is doing no wrong by starting to sell this 60 Hp outboard for Racing, but APBA-UIM
need to step up and tell Mercury to use it in the NEW Low Emission SL 60 class so all the other outboard factories
could get involved.

Suzuki, Yamaha etc. make 60 Hp four stroke to, but need to make a short shaft (15").

Some RIB have a need for short shaft, and maybe they can force the other factories to start
making short shafts 60Hp again and go Racing.

I think that is the right way to go.

A new one engine class is not good for the future of the sport.

This one time great sport has been very good to me and a big part of my life.

My wish is to see the sport become great again.

Thank you

[three_banger_omc]

At first i was opposed to this new class but now its making more sense. I like the point about how going to four stroke might encourage other engine manufactures back into the sport. One thing i dont understand is if everyone feels OPC is run poorly why isnt someone proper implimented that can really help. If you look at it from a wider point of view boat racing is one of the few types of vehicle racing that has not exploded into the mainstream. It frustrates me to be a younger individual coming into this sport with a dim future ahead.

[sst45jefff]

It doesnt matter how much support we as a group give Mercury on there new motor they will not make money off selling a racing package except in advertising.

If we want more support from other manufactures you have to open the class and structure it to allow all the manufactures motors that fit in the 4 stroke 60 category.

If you don't what are you going to do, create a class for every manufacture that want's to introduce a motor.

The one motor classes (which I run myself because there isnt anything else) is what killed the competition between manufactures, which is what spectators want to see.

One motor classes were introduced so they could always say their motor one in my opinion.

[Mark75H]

One motor classes were introduced so they could always say their motor one in my opinion.

One motor classes are usually intended to reduce costs ... that way everyone knows what motor will be usable next year and the year after. How many racers will be able to drop $8,000 to $10,000 per year on a one year motor, each year? You know they will not be giving them away ...

[sst45jefff]

One motor classes are usually intended to reduce costs ... that way everyone knows what motor will be usable next year and the year after. How many racers will be able to drop $8,000 to $10,000 per year on a one year motor, each year? You know they will not be giving them away ...

It doesn't reduce cost when they quit supporting a motor & class they introduced and then create a new motor & class.

How many guys can afford to buy into a class and then switch to a new class with a diffrent boat and motor having to be purchased while the other boat & motor becomes obsolete and not even resaleable.

Every time a manufacture has gotten invlolved with creating a class it means buying new equipment. Then they don't support the motor in a few years.
The motors are changing every few years. As soon as it is replaced by a newer version they quit supporting it.
(It's only good bussines not to produce parts for a motor you dont even sell anymore.)
Which is where we are at right now.
If we keep repeating history things will never change.

How many guys who have never raced will be able to drop $15,000 - $20,000 to try out racing, when the guys who allready race cant drop $8,000 - $10,000 on a new motor every few years.

I dont think a guy should be buying new motors every few years, It doesnt make economic sense.

The bottom line is the cost. The bang for the buck is not there anymore.
Cost is to high and the numbers are to low. Nobody wants to drop a $1,000.00 to go racing with themselves and 2 of their buddies.

If the Manufacture want's to get involved why don't they take the money they are putting into this new class and provide free of charge motors to all racers who want to run there motors in what ever class they have a motor that may fit that class. Lets take it one step further and they can provide parts free of charge also.

OPC Then needs to step up to the plate and approve these motors for the classes.
Yes some motors will work better than others in some classes, but that is what makes them want to produce better motors.
This will create new motors for the classes and not at the expense of losing Boat racers.

The cost to the manufacure would be very small considering the number of boat racers out there.

Then when they want to implement a new motor they can take the old one back and provide the new one at no cost to the racer.
This will also get there new motor out there and running on race boats to attract the buyers to their motors.

This type of a program will attract new racers into boat racing.

I don't think many guys would say no to a new motor for a classs if they didn't have to foot the whole bill to change everything over.

OPC needs to focus on its existing classes so as not to dilute the pool any further.
Then they need to get the cost down to run the boats, via advertisers to foot the race expenses and or suplement the cost to the drivers.
Making raceing more affordable is the only way you are going to attract more racers.

More racers means more fun and exposure which gives you a marketable product.

You have to treat it like a bussines if you want it to progress from where it is now.

All of the people that run APBA are volunteers with there own agendas. So we keep going in circles. (no pun intended)

APBA needs to restructure and hire people to run APBA as a bussines and do what the racers want, if it is ever to progress into the 21st century with the other motorsports that are mainstream.

If it is run like a local club then it will always be a local club.

It is the preverbale chicken and egg problem.
If we sqaunder what monies that are produced, then there will never be enough money to produce.

It is a shame that I travel on average over a 1,000 miles to get to a good race where there is more thn 3-5 boats in the class.
That series has been put together by a very dedicated person who wanted better boat racing as it was intended. He has put a lot of time and money into it but has learned over the last several years that boatracing is going nowhere. He has started to focus his attention on other forms of racing that are going somewhere and can be marketed to the advertisers. So we will soon lose one of the only few bright spots in boat racing and another dedicated volunteer, along with that several more boat racers.

I was brought up in boat racing like many of you and my two sons have been exposed to it, but they may never race boats because the cost is getting out of hand and the racing sucks in most places.
My thought for them in racing has been turning to getting them into another form of racing that actually has competitors and a future.

Most of the new racers are buying into this program because they have not been apart of the boat racing history and seen it play out with their pocket book.
Nothing against them, they just dont know any better.
I was in the same boat years ago.

OPC boat racing deserves better it is one of the most exciteing motorsports out there if it is promoted correctly.

[Mark75H]

How many guys can afford to buy into a class and then switch to a new class with a diffrent boat and motor having to be purchased while the other boat & motor becomes obsolete and not even resaleable.

That is exactly the way things went in the good old days of manufacturer competition you are begging for ... a different boat and motor winning every year; classes changing every year or so. I'm lost on whether you really understand that. And then no one wanted to buy your old stuff because it wasn't competitive any more or the class was gone, just like you point out. It was every year, not once in a while, once in a decade or so with the equipment you are talking about.

APBA needs to restructure and hire people to run APBA as a bussines and do what the racers want, if it is ever to progress into the 21st century with the other motorsports that are mainstream.

If it is run like a local club then it will always be a local club.That theory has been tested and put to rest. The membership does not want APBA run as a business, reducing everything to a bottom line for profit. You are speaking as though you know nothing of the Offshore takeover fiasco or fully approved of it.

One solution is to form a company to put on the race series like the USTS does with alky racing. If you are as passionate as you say, you should look into the USTS model and find backers for a similar series in OPC; it works.

As far as "run APBA as a bussines and do what the racers want" ... how would that be different than things are now? Currently APBA & OPC are run by racers, why would a paid director do what racers want if he is hired to make money? A hired director would do what made money regardless of whether racers wanted it or not ... there would be an awful lot of ticked off racers.

[7500Blizzard]

I agree with some of the things that Sam says in the beginning of his post but Every form of racing that is successful is run like a business and the racers and owners go by whay they say or don't race and it works for them.

[Mark75H]

So, since it has been long since decided that APBA won't be the business ... another entity needs to step up to the plate to be the business ... whether it is funded by outsiders or the drivers become the shareholders by buying into it, that's the way to go.

[Lars Strom]

Today there is a story on the Swedish Power Boat Federations
home page about the SL 60 Race in Holland this weekend.

The race after Holland is the first ever World Championship in
a "clean SL class", but the pro motor want to call the class Formula Mercury,
The Federation SL 60!!

I guess there is a conflict growing...

The SL 60 World Championship race is in Sundsvall, Sweden July 19....
13 boats so far is has entered the race

www.svera.org

[HRTV]

It doesn't reduce cost when they quit supporting a motor & class they introduced and then create a new motor & class.

How many guys can afford to buy into a class and then switch to a new class with a diffrent boat and motor having to be purchased while the other boat & motor becomes obsolete and not even resaleable.

Every time a manufacture has gotten invlolved with creating a class it means buying new equipment. Then they don't support the motor in a few years.
The motors are changing every few years. As soon as it is replaced by a newer version they quit supporting it.
(It's only good bussines not to produce parts for a motor you dont even sell anymore.)
Which is where we are at right now.
If we keep repeating history things will never change.

How many guys who have never raced will be able to drop $15,000 - $20,000 to try out racing, when the guys who allready race cant drop $8,000 - $10,000 on a new motor every few years.

I dont think a guy should be buying new motors every few years, It doesnt make economic sense.

The bottom line is the cost. The bang for the buck is not there anymore.
Cost is to high and the numbers are to low. Nobody wants to drop a $1,000.00 to go racing with themselves and 2 of their buddies.

If the Manufacture want's to get involved why don't they take the money they are putting into this new class and provide free of charge motors to all racers who want to run there motors in what ever class they have a motor that may fit that class. Lets take it one step further and they can provide parts free of charge also.

OPC Then needs to step up to the plate and approve these motors for the classes.
Yes some motors will work better than others in some classes, but that is what makes them want to produce better motors.
This will create new motors for the classes and not at the expense of losing Boat racers.

The cost to the manufacure would be very small considering the number of boat racers out there.

Then when they want to implement a new motor they can take the old one back and provide the new one at no cost to the racer.
This will also get there new motor out there and running on race boats to attract the buyers to their motors.

This type of a program will attract new racers into boat racing.

I don't think many guys would say no to a new motor for a classs if they didn't have to foot the whole bill to change everything over.

OPC needs to focus on its existing classes so as not to dilute the pool any further.
Then they need to get the cost down to run the boats, via advertisers to foot the race expenses and or suplement the cost to the drivers.
Making raceing more affordable is the only way you are going to attract more racers.

More racers means more fun and exposure which gives you a marketable product.

You have to treat it like a bussines if you want it to progress from where it is now.

All of the people that run APBA are volunteers with there own agendas. So we keep going in circles. (no pun intended)

APBA needs to restructure and hire people to run APBA as a bussines and do what the racers want, if it is ever to progress into the 21st century with the other motorsports that are mainstream.

If it is run like a local club then it will always be a local club.

It is the preverbale chicken and egg problem.
If we sqaunder what monies that are produced, then there will never be enough money to produce.

It is a shame that I travel on average over a 1,000 miles to get to a good race where there is more thn 3-5 boats in the class.
That series has been put together by a very dedicated person who wanted better boat racing as it was intended. He has put a lot of time and money into it but has learned over the last several years that boatracing is going nowhere. He has started to focus his attention on other forms of racing that are going somewhere and can be marketed to the advertisers. So we will soon lose one of the only few bright spots in boat racing and another dedicated volunteer, along with that several more boat racers.

I was brought up in boat racing like many of you and my two sons have been exposed to it, but they may never race boats because the cost is getting out of hand and the racing sucks in most places.
My thought for them in racing has been turning to getting them into another form of racing that actually has competitors and a future.

Most of the new racers are buying into this program because they have not been apart of the boat racing history and seen it play out with their pocket book.
Nothing against them, they just dont know any better.
I was in the same boat years ago.

OPC boat racing deserves better it is one of the most exciteing motorsports out there if it is promoted correctly.


Jeff,

Boat racing is not dead, its only OPC and a few other categories that are really hurting right now. Stock Mod and Pro are seeing a very small decrease in numbers due to all the normal things in today's economy but look at the list of Inboard races right in my back yard. OPC has been on life support for many years now way before the economy went south and even back when folks had the money the category was in trouble and lets face it Outboard motors are the real problem and the cost associated with them.

The list below are Inboard races with full fields in every class all in my back yard! back home by 6-7pm :-) or sooner! not one of these races is more then a four hour drive from my front door. A couple of these are less then two hours driving time for me.

http://www.portboatrace.com/index.htm

http://www.carolinacupregatta.com/

http://www.kentnarrowsracing.com/

http://www.hamptoncupregatta.org/

http://www.cpbra.com/dynamic.html

http://www.powerinthepark.com/

http://racing-images.com/slha/

http://www.clarksvillehydroplane.com/index.html



The list just goes on and on!!

[Lars Strom]

There was 9 boats in the race and the winner was Sparring from Sweden

[Lars Strom]

World SL 60 & Formula 2000 in Sundsvall,
Sweden

Sundsvall July 19th, is the race coming up next. Sundsvall is a new venue for these cathegories. Race course is located in the very center of the town. We have got large areas for Pite area and a large parking place. Start jetty is permanent incl. fuel pumps.

We are staying at one of the most exclusive Hotels in Sweden, Hotel Sodra Berget, where also the World Banquet will take place. Tickets are as low as SEK 240. Tickets are to be pre booked to the organiser at arrival to Sundsvall. There will be a Shuttel between pit area and hotel for team guests who do not like to stay at race site all days.



RACE HOTEL is

HOTEL SODRA BERGET

Single: SEK 695

Double: SEK 790

Suite: SEK 465 per person

Ph +46 60671000

reception@sodraberget.com

Code: "Formula 2000"

www.sodraberget.se

More info www.nolimit.se

[Lars Strom]

Daniel Sparring from Sweden is the first World Champ in a low emission UIM class.

It happen today in Sundsvall, Sweden.
SL 60 is the same class Mercury like to call Formula Mercury or/and Formula Four in Europe.

There is still a argument about that...


12 boats started the Race, but I have no more info att this time.

[Lars Strom]

This is from Sundsvall, Sweden yesterday.

Daniel Sparring in action.... and the winner.

[CarlosM]

We should all hope Mercury is more successful in this venture than they have been in getting racers to abandon their antiquated "dirty" SST120 race engines which have been out of production for years and start racing the new Optimax race engine.



The reason mercury hasn't been that successful with the optimax is because it is NOT a race engine, it's a fishing motor, and a very expensive and heavy one at that.

I'm not saying they will never work, I just think the 120 motors are better suited for racing and will continue to be our bread and butter until the day we can no longer find any parts for them, which probaly won't be anytime soon.....

One more thing, I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure the 120 motors have only been outta production for a couple of years....

Sorry to hijack!

[Barry Strawn]

Carlos - I was just spoofing Mercury's press release language about the 60 as applied to exactly the same situation in 120. And I think everyone agrees these are heavy and expensive engines better suited to fishin' than racing.

[CarlosM]

I was just pointing out that the un-succesful replacement of the 120 was because the motor they decided to go with just wasn't a racing motor. It was just something they had on a shelf and said "hey, we can throw a speedmaster on there and race em!"

As long as this new 60 motor is a purpose built race motor, which it seems to be, and it's affordable, this new idea should thrive.

Lets just pray Mercury makes this one easy to race and cheap to maintain!

[Lars Strom]

I am not 100% sure, but the Merc 60 they race in SL 60 is a standard
production 4 stroke.
The only difference is the 15" shaft, instead of 20"

[Barry Strawn]

Mercury Racing website says it is a production powerhead and gearcase on a new 15" midsection.

[Hottrucks]

sorry to jump in late but looking for more info on the SL 60's and the who what and where here in the US.....as ussual I think you guys in the mid west will get first bite .....but hey I can hope....

My $.02 is that for what i heard ( around 12k) you can get a NEW turn key boat and not worry about the extra expence of blowing the thing up it sounds like it might fit my needs...which is being a beginer racer...hell I could spend that on a gayliner

[foxjay5419]

what is considered a full field of inboards?

Jay

[fernandez32112]

If you want to change something you need to make changes...............Thats an idea many in our racing community have a hard time understanding.

Hows that for a reason why things dont and wont work???? The small tunnel classes havent seen a new motor designed for the class in 20 years!!!!! We should be all jumping for joy and celebrating!!!!!!!

[Ron Hill]

From Rick Mackie at Mercury Racing.

Ron:

Fred Kiekhaefer asked that I respond to your request for 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard information.

Attached is the press release and photo.




Racer Price is $7,475.00

[hydrorider]

nice

[MN1]

Lars,
Is there any video of Mercury's 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard available?
Mark Nelson






Today there is a story on the Swedish Power Boat Federations
home page about the SL 60 Race in Holland this weekend.

The race after Holland is the first ever World Championship in
a "clean SL class", but the pro motor want to call the class Formula Mercury,
The Federation SL 60!!

I guess there is a conflict growing...

The SL 60 World Championship race is in Sundsvall, Sweden July 19....
13 boats so far is has entered the race

www.svera.org

[Ron Hill]

CONTACT: Rick Mackie
Mercury Racing
Senior Marketing Manager
Phone: 920-924-2032
FAX: 920-921-6533
E-mail: rmackie@mercmarine.com

New Mercury 60 EFI FormulaRace
Latest Four Stroke Outboard From Mercury Racing

FOND DU LAC, Wis., April 22, 2008 – Mercury Racing is pleased to announce the introduction of the all-new Mercury 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard. The 60 h.p. in-line four-cylinder engine expands Racing’s breadth of low-emissions 4-strokes; an offspring of the soon-to-be released Verado 350 SCi. The two join Mercury Racing’s line of OptiMax “XS” series of low-emissions 2-stroke consumer outboards.
The engine, built at Mercury Marine’s state-of-the-art outboard manufacturing facility in Suzhou, China, was designed specifically to meet increasing demand for engines in support of the popular Mercury FormulaFour outboard tunnel boat racing series. The series, featuring one-design 14-foot tunnel race boats powered by a production Mercury 60 EFI 4-Stroke outboard, was originated byBrunswick Marine Sweden and their dealer Mikael Frodé. A total of 10 boats compete on the Scandinavian circuit (Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway) with an additional six boats scheduled to join the fleet in 2008.
Although racing is basically exempt from emissions regulations, event promoters are beginning to realize that they need to create new classes and/or update existing boats with emissions compliant power. The 60 EFI FormulaRace provides racers and promoters with an affordable modern engine which is also environmentally responsible. Racing communities throughout Germany, Poland, China and the Middle East have expressed interest in the Mercury FormulaFour series.
(more)
Released: 04/22/2008-RM


Mercury 60 EFI FormulaRace – Page 2 of 2

Back to the Future
The 60 EFI FormulaRace features a production 60 h.p. four-cylinder powerhead mounted on a short (15” - 381 mm) shaft, die-cast mid section with race-inspired solid upper and lower mounts. Power is transferred to the water through the production 1.83:1 gearcase. A line of Mercury Racing Lab Finished® stainless steel propellers are available. An accessories kit sold with the engine includes competition steering bars.
The 15” mid section, five inches shorter than a normal (20”- 508 mm) model, lowers the engine’s center of gravity. The lower center of gravity, combined with solid engine mounts, enhances boat handling and overall performance.
North American tunnel boat racing is stagnant in regards to new entries into the sport. Entry level classes currently feature antiquated “dirty” OMC 45 & 60 race engines which have been out of production for years. Turn-key, entry-level equipment is non-existent.
The U.S. based F-1 ChampBoat Series is planning to bring the Mercury FormulaFour series concept to the states in 2009. ChampBoat promoter Mike Schriefer envisions the Mercury 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard and the FormulaFour class concept as the breath of life that U.S. outboard tunnel boat racing is in dire need of. Schriefer plans to launch a powerboat racing school featuring 12 identical turn-key spec boats. The school will be used to promote safety first with new state-of-the-art race boats and power. The school will enable “graduates” to rent or buy the boats for competition in the new ChampBoat Series F-4 class.

About Mercury Racing

Based in Fond du Lac, Wis., Mercury Racing, a division of Mercury Marine, is a leading provider of high-performance marine propulsion systems to discriminating boaters worldwide, offering an exciting and fulfilling powerboating experience on the water.
Using leading-edge technology, Mercury Racing produces high-performance outboards, sterndrives, propellers, parts and accessories.
Mercury Racing-powered boats worldwide win more races and set more records than any boats powered by other marine engine manufacturers.
Mercury Marine is a division of Brunswick Corp. (NYSE: BC), the world’s largest manufacturer of recreational products, including pleasure boats, marine engines, fitness equipment, and bowling and billiards.
# #

[Fast Fred]

ya, it is Nice:cool:

[Lars Strom]

Lars,
Is there any video of Mercury's 60 EFI FormulaRace outboard available?
Mark Nelson


I have placed a question in Sweden about a tape from a SL60 -
Formula Four - Formula Mercury Race.

One response and he need a few more days to put one together.

[Ron Hill]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=124

I case some missed my fund raiser...

[Lars Strom]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=124

I case some missed my fund raiser...


Very good Ron,

I will for the first time in my life support a "Mercury thing" and send you
some money. :)

[Lars Strom]

I think there is some info about the SL 60 class here...


www.adac-motorsport.de
www.sl60.de
www.schuft-racing.de
www.mf-powerboat-racing.com
www.powerboat-germany.com
www.ellmers-motorsport.com

[Lars Strom]

Maybe this one will work..

http://www.sl-60.de/

[sbs1974]

Hey there,
looks great to see how much interest there is in sl60 racing.
We started with this class in Germany in 2008, after having seen it in Sweden the year before. We started with 6 boats in this first season and at some races we could start together with the scandinavian drivers, so that we had between 6 and 12 boats (WM in Sundsvall) on the jetty.
In Germany we organised 5 races this year, the last one will be this weekend in Lauffen/Neckar. One more we had in the Netherlands (Lobith) and then there was Sundsvall, what means 7 races in this new class altogether.
So we, the drivers, are very satisfied.
The beginning of October there will be an official testing in Sweden for new potential drivers, in Germany we will have one a week after (with up to now 4 highly interested drivers).
I know about interest in Finland and in Italy as well.
So, we are looking forward for a new, maybe really international class.
I keep my fingers crossed that it will also be running (that means: that it also will be raced) in the US.

Regards from Germany
Simone
www.schuft-racing.de

[sbs1974]

The last SL60 race for the Int. ADAC Formula Mercury Cup is coming up on 20/21. September in Lauffen/Neckar, Germany.
Furthermore we will present the Formula Mercury on all relevant boat fairs the next months (Interboot Friedrichshafen, September 2008, Hanseboot Hamburg, October 2008, Motorshow Essen, November 2008, Boot Düsseldorf, January 2009)

BR
Simone

[Ron Hill]

Thanks Simone...So does this mean your are donating to my FUND RAISER?

[sbs1974]

Good try ;-)
Actually, just trying myself to finance my next race season...


However, here are the news from this weekend:
Last race in Germany's "Formula Mercury CUP 2008" passed this weekend in Lauffen / Neckar. Seven starters came up, however the Latvian Martin Morosz who took over the long long travel to race in Lauffen, had very bad luck during the timed trial. He had second best start position but lost in the last laps his propeller including the prop shaft.... there was no other one to be found, so unfortunately he could not start in the races.
Six starters for the races. Good races altogether. Gimpl, who got best times in time trial and started from pole, had an early start. Great pity, because he dominated the field easily. The end of the day, we had a cup winner calling Stefan Hagin, who started in Formula ADAC for two years before starting in Formula Mercury now in 2008.

Photos will follow soon.

In Dresden, Oct 4th, we will discuss racing season 2009 and places to race, hopefully together with Leif (Ahlborg) representing the scandinavian pilots.

BR
Simone

[Ron Hill]

If ever view gave ONE DOLLAR to the funder raiser....We'd have the $15,000 needed...

[Ron Hill]

FYI: On December 29, 2008 Mark Wheeler APBA's VP visited Revolution Boats. Stay tuned...

[Pierre]

Hi,

Happy New Year 2009
About me I am in French pilot category S850 - F4 (Yamaha 70cv).

With the new European standards, we are forced to switch to clean engine in 2010.
Your boats with 60 hp mercury appear powerful.
On the Internet, I watch the news, I have the impression that there moolgaards, is this the case ? or are there other boat hulls ?

Are there any teams that sell used equipment and motor boat ?

Regards from France
Pierre

[Ron Hill]

Hi,

Happy New Year 2009
About me I am in French pilot category S850 - F4 (Yamaha 70cv).

With the new European standards, we are forced to switch to clean engine in 2010.
Your boats with 60 hp mercury appear powerful.
On the Internet, I watch the news, I have the impression that there moolgaards, is this the case ? or are there other boat hulls ?

Are there any teams that sell used equipment and motor boat ?

Regards from France
Pierre

I know little of this class and know nothing of a moolgaards... http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=124

The AMerican Power Boat Association is investing in this class. We are hoping the concept is embraced worldwide!

[jimnello]

Can anyone advise what speeds the SL60 boats are getting too? Looks like a fun class!

[Lars Strom]

Can anyone advise what speeds the SL60 boats are getting too? Looks like a fun class!

I asked Oskar..one of the Swedish drivers in the class..
Oskars answer is more than 65 MPH...less than 70 MPH..
He is driving a Danish built boat.

[Lars Strom]

This is the place for the World Championship race in August 2009..

The old Olympic Games Row Boat station in Berlin,
(I think the games was in 1936)...

Jason Neri...
don´t delay.. send your entry form today...:)