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View Full Version : Performance Potential of Merc 20H, 25SS, and 25XS



RickHex
03-18-2009, 05:54 AM
Hi,

I'm new to this forum and used to own a 10' runabout with a Mark 25 back in the 70's (when I was 13)

I'm a metallurgical/ceramic engineer and like to tinker with racing engines, transmissions, most recently auto/drag racing and in the past I really enjoyed building rebuilding a Mark 25 that I found in the neighbors garbage and was in pieces.

Now that I have kids on the way I'm starting to go back to my younger days and I'm interested into getting back into a runabout and/or hydroplane (both for myself and hopefully once the kids are old enough) and going fast! We live on a lake and enjoy pleasure boating, so having a hydro zipping around would be fun....

Of the Merc Mark 20H (both standard and converted carb/fuel pump/corn popper lower unit), 25SS, and 25XS, what setup or combination (both powerhead and lower unit) would be the lightest/fastest and offer the most potential in a given boat?

I'm looking for a engine and lower unit that I can work on/modify to go fast and something that also won't be really hard to find or cost an arm and a leg.

Does anyone have something tabulated on these engines like potential HP, torque, rpm, weight, advantages/disadvantages etc?

Thanks!

Rick Hexemer
Granite Falls, NC

bobvdinghyracer
03-18-2009, 07:18 PM
ok i`ll bite heres MY opinion .....based on personal use on a inflatable and a small homebuilt utility type boat .... comparisons are with a stock leg with all .. stock 9.8 = 22mph /
stock mark10a (autotrans) 22mph ... unimpressed
sooo ported to 200 specs , added 8 reed setup
+merc500 carb HUGE DIFFERENCE = 30MPH
/STOCKmerc200= 30mph /
MERC200 on mark20 leg with 7.5x12p 3blade brass aj series= 33 inflat.to39 on utility
merc 25xd stock 14p 3blade= low 20`s
merc25xd with stk tower cut tuner and mark20 gearbox with13p mk30prop =35/36 at 6200rpm ... no setup time
my opinion would be the 25xd motor shows most potential BUT if you want to mess with porting you NEED the mercsoil block the other ones are either chrome or nickacil and you wont be able to port cause you may end up chipping the plating ... the mercsoil can be ported / which i am currently in process of doin 1 up with 2 carbs also and a chamber
my second choice is the merc 200 .... 22cubes its the same motor as the 25ss factory racer from the 70`s and yes theres some extra ponies hiding in there if ya kno porting this has been my everyday engine last 4 years mounted on a mark leg and it always runs well on the inflatable

beyond that as far as lower units go if ya want a quickie yer lookin at some $$$$ good luck with that !! ,a good poor mans quickie would be the direct drive early super ten lowers ..the ratio is 1.34 / 1 and then find some lefty race props an put a merc 200 on top of it !!, for playin around i like the early mark leg an gearboxes not too hard to come up with props easy to rebuild there are plenty of them around and with a little tinkering pretty much ya can drop on most any of the 2 cyl motors mk10/15/20/25/28//merc200/super tens etc and even the 4 cyl motors ..mk30 thru mk55 with a mark 30 lower cowling and a driveshaft adapter
THATS MY STORY AND I`M STICKIN TO IT :)
ck some of my stuff at
http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/bvrevrev/

RickHex
03-19-2009, 06:00 AM
Thanks! That was helpful.

Is the 25XD the same as the 25XS? Whats the difference between these two engines. And how do they comparee with the 200/20?

I'm pretty much confused on all this lower unit stuff! I sure wish someone had a comprehensive chart/Table of the different units, what fits what, and with pictures???

I'm starting to think more is better.... so what about the 4 cylinders (30H, 40H and especially 55H) with that short lower units?

Bunker Hill
03-19-2009, 09:33 AM
All of the old racing Mercs will cost you $$$. There is a 20h, standard not toilet bowl mid., on ebay now and it will sell for more than $25oo.oo and parts are hard to find. The probably the best route to go today is to buy a Yamato 302. That engine is 30 cubic inches and can be run as a 20 cubic incher with a restrictor plate.
The lower units, or gearcases, feet, or as some say gear feet, come basically 2 ways: 1) Quicksilver or "Quickie" which is very hydrodynamic and doesn't have a shift option, no reverse, always in gear, these are racing units. and 2) "Club foot" or standard shifting units. Based upon the location of the water pick up holes, a "Quickie" can be run much higher on the transom wich also aids in performance, the above descripyions are for Mercury only, however are generally true for all mfgrs.
As far as the 25SS/25xs, to my knowledge, the only sifference is the mid-section, the driveshaft/exhaust housing portion, or "Leg" of the motor. The 25xs has a much shorter mid, lowering the overall center of gravity of the outfit, the powerheads, I believe, are interchangeable

Bunker

RickHex
03-19-2009, 10:41 AM
Bunker and others.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm a diehard Merc fan, but do realize that Japan builds some pretty nice equipment these days.....

Regarding the Yamato 302's, just how much does it generally cost to pick up one of these units with the racing lower unit?

Since we're talking about the newer engines now, what would the advantages/comparison of a Merc 25XS vs. a Yamato engines 80, 302?

I suppose to you tinker with either and increase the performance if you not racing all the time?


Rick

Bunker Hill
03-19-2009, 10:53 AM
Model 80 yamatos are kind of out dated. Merc 25 xs's are too, I am also a "Die hard" merc guy but the Yamatos were designed to run and run and run!! They were built for Pari-mutual betting, like a horse race here in the US. If an engine, a Yamato, failed, the bets were all refunded and the race scratched, so motor failure was NOT an option. The Yamato 302 is most versitile of the 3 you mentoioned, it may be raced in multiple APBA classes, C stock and 20ss, and in the pro/UIM world OSY400.
The yamatos have racing gearcases, very simple ones, no water pump, they are force fed water through a water pick-up located in an exhaust snout which is directly in the line of the propeller wash
A very effective and simple way to cool the engine.

Bunker

RickHex
03-19-2009, 11:08 AM
Bunker,

So the 302 racing lower unit is force feed. Does this present a problem if you aren't moving fast, (ie. going slow for awhile)? I don't intend to race it all the time and may mess around with it in our lake when the rest of the family is in our sea ray. Or want to let the kids (with me in the boat too) have a spin.

If I'm looking for something that is still fast (Hydrodynamic in nature), but had a neutral/shift, what are my options for an outboard/lower unit??? Anything out there in a Merc, Yamato, other brands?

You did mention the Yamato has a shifting lower unit, but is that much longer and slower???

I suppose ALL of the racing lower units are non shifting? Start and go!

Bunker Hill
03-19-2009, 12:44 PM
No shifting lower units on the yamatos!
as far as long idle runs, a heating issue could result.
Many racers, sport C for example, use a "Nose cone" which is just that, a pointed addition added to a "Club foot" unit. Many bondo up the stock water pick up holes and create "Bottom pick ups" to jack up the motor higher. These nose cones are around and available (Try Hillmarine.com) for many smaller 15 -50 horse shifting units with waterpumps

RickHex
03-19-2009, 02:39 PM
Bunker,

I thought you said in your first response that besides the racing lower unit that they had a club foot or shifting unit for Yamato?

So nobody makes a short shifting unit?

Thanks!

Rick

bobvdinghyracer
03-19-2009, 04:02 PM
we need to go back to the beginning a bit here !!
some questions need to be asked to form a better opinion on what to look for
1...... what will the boat be ?hydro // utility ????
2...... used for fun / racing / "lake racer"/putting around ?
3 what kind of speed ya lookin for ?
4 how much ya willing to spend on motor ??
5 longevity of motor / lower unit
...........................................
to answer a couple of earlier questions from you
the 25ss merc powerhead is same as fishin merc200 ... only difference was carb and i think some had an alum. flywheel a bit lighter // tho never saw 1 myself = rated 20 hp @ CRANK //25hp+ on a quickie depending on rpm
.........................................
the merc 25xs ... same deal has same powerhead as 25xd / fishin motor ... some had a little bit lighter flywheel = rated at 25hp @PROP..
25+HP ON A QUICKIE DEPENDENT ON RPM

as far as how are the 2 motors different from eachother ? well the 200 is a old style DEFLECTOR .. style ported motor and is 22 cubic inch with cast cylinder liners ... nice engine, good all around power / plentiful / inexpensive !!! will run forever
**** it will pretty much bolt up to a super ten lower unit (apoor mans quickie for a lake racer .....what we call rat motors)/ a mark series (what i use) lower unit .... it has a full gearshift and easy to adapt a lot of different props also its farily light my 200 on a mk leg weighs in at 68 lbs same as a 9.8 merc.......or thru prop ex as it came a bit too heavy for me !!
NOTE will bolt up to a quickie also // if ya can find one (good luck there $$$$$$)........................................... ............................................

the 25xd is a modern " looper ported " motor meaning like a typical snowmobile motor completely different design its 24cubic inch and the cylinders are 1 of 3 types first was chrome bore on alum... 2nd was nickasil on alum ... the later 3rd type is mercsoil which is i believe high silicon content alum and can be PORTED / + BORED .....my personal preference for that reason / if ya trash either of the first 2 they then need to be sleeved and is big bucks !!!and should not be ported (can chip coatings)
this engine ONLY fits the stock lower unit ... or the racing lower both factory or afterrmarket version there again NOT THE SAME mid as the earlier versions $$$$$$$$$$
i have my own ideas here ,there again i have fabed a stock midsection fitted up with a mark series gearbox ... works well
avaibility is not as good as the merc 200 engines and i have seen a lot of these that are trashed due to the lack of a cast liner these are not as forgiving as the earlier 200 and generally will cost more to find and esp. when repairing

bobvdinghyracer
03-19-2009, 04:45 PM
MERC25XD WITH MK GEARBOX
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/bvrevrev/frankinmerc%2025xd/25xdwithmk20gearbox.jpg

MERC200 ON MK LEG/GEARBOX=68LBS
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/bvrevrev/merc%20200%20plus%20mark%20lowers/b803.jpg

Bunker Hill
03-19-2009, 09:20 PM
On that "gearbox" that you have posted, you are severely limited on the props you can run, you can also see that the water pick ups are above the propshaft minimizing your transom height, and therefor performance. I think you would be far better served with any newer outboard, wheather it is a Suzuki, Yamaha, Mercury, OMC(BRP) Tohatsu, or whatever. Parts and prop availability with a newer, 1980's or newer, outboard will be cheaper and WAY more reliable. You are wanting your kids to enjoy this boat, so reliability is crucial!! Not to mention, with the newer outboards, propellers and nosecones are readilly available and less expensive than custom antique stuff.

JohnsonM50
03-20-2009, 05:31 AM
Hi,

I'm new to this forum and used to own a 10' runabout with a Mark 25 back in the 70's (when I was 13)

I'm a metallurgical/ceramic engineer and like to tinker with racing engines, transmissions, most recently auto/drag racing and in the past I really enjoyed building rebuilding a Mark 25 that I found in the neighbors garbage and was in pieces.

Now that I have kids on the way I'm starting to go back to my younger days and I'm interested into getting back into a runabout and/or hydroplane (both for myself and hopefully once the kids are old enough) and going fast! We live on a lake and enjoy pleasure boating, so having a hydro zipping around would be fun....

Of the Merc Mark 20H (both standard and converted carb/fuel pump/corn popper lower unit), 25SS, and 25XS, what setup or combination (both powerhead and lower unit) would be the lightest/fastest and offer the most potential in a given boat?

I'm looking for a engine and lower unit that I can work on/modify to go fast and something that also won't be really hard to find or cost an arm and a leg.

Does anyone have something tabulated on these engines like potential HP, torque, rpm, weight, advantages/disadvantages etc?

Thanks!

Rick Hexemer
Granite Falls, NC Rick, All this stuff as noted will co$t or "speed cost $$$, how fast you wanna go"] But Im sure your past that & are also skilled enough to do what you want. The older mercs have speed potentials of 50 - 60mph [depending on many factors..+ or -] newer looper motors can net 70+ [again factors + o r-]
I build 31.8 late 70s early 80s OMCs & adapt various gearfeet. This amounts to cheep speed. I 'work' them for fun but even stock they are of good torque & respectable top end. [as many a Merc has seen;)] Id be afraid to try an AB-C even tho 30Hs use em [C] Likely to go.. [3" pistons :eek:]
A Yamato or OMC A foot would be good tho.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/mes355/DSCN0026-1.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/mes355/IMG021.jpg

This motor is 79lbs, 25 or 35 hp bolt into the same tower, Its shortened 3 1/8" has a Yamato 102 foot -with the stock OMC water pump. It has made 63, Im sure more testing will net more speed but mostly fun is it accelerates like a dirt bike. Mike

RickHex
03-20-2009, 06:22 AM
Bob and guys,

Thanks for all the geat feedback and information...

Well, I guess I'm not sure yet what I'm looking for.

What I do know at this time is I'm looking for something that goes fast. I'd like to use a Merc powerhead. Perhaps a top speed in the upper 60's/70 ish. There are bass boats all over my lake with Merc. 200 or 250's running 70 - 80 mph all day long and I'd like to give them a good run for their money.... :D

I would like a boat that I can race in a stock, or preferrably mod class as I enjoy restoring/building/modifying things (boat engines, lower units, boats), but will most likely also use in the local lake for recreation/adrennaline boost. The wife and I take a 25' sea ray sundancer out every weekend (runs about 45 mph with a 454/bravo III) and I'd like something that I can run around in when the wife's in the pleasure boat. If it will fit 2 people that would be a plus, so when the kids get older I can take them for a spin.

I don't really enjoy flipping, but do hear the hydroplans run smoother/faster, so I'm not sure if I'm looking for a runabout or a hdyro? I like the looks and idea of the hydros.... :)

Recently I've liked what I've seen in the old 4 cylinders like a merc 55H on a quicky of perhaps one of those bass lower units? So would this be a D class? Or what are we talking with this size engine in a mod class???

Thanks guys!

Rick

JohnsonM50
03-20-2009, 03:20 PM
Bob and guys,

Thanks for all the geat feedback and information...

Well, I guess I'm not sure yet what I'm looking for.

What I do know at this time is I'm looking for something that goes fast. I'd like to use a Merc powerhead. Perhaps a top speed in the upper 60's/70 ish. There are bass boats all over my lake with Merc. 200 or 250's running 70 - 80 mph all day long and I'd like to give them a good run for their money.... :D

I would like a boat that I can race in a stock, or preferrably mod class as I enjoy restoring/building/modifying things (boat engines, lower units, boats), but will most likely also use in the local lake for recreation/adrennaline boost. The wife and I take a 25' sea ray sundancer out every weekend (runs about 45 mph with a 454/bravo III) and I'd like something that I can run around in when the wife's in the pleasure boat. If it will fit 2 people that would be a plus, so when the kids get older I can take them for a spin.

I don't really enjoy flipping, but do hear the hydroplans run smoother/faster, so I'm not sure if I'm looking for a runabout or a hdyro? I like the looks and idea of the hydros.... :)

Recently I've liked what I've seen in the old 4 cylinders like a merc 55H on a quicky of perhaps one of those bass lower units? So would this be a D class? Or what are we talking with this size engine in a mod class???

Thanks guys!

Rick Well Rick your gonna need a big boy for that kinda speed, Ds will do in the 80s E & Fs even more. OMC 3 holers, Bass Machine Tohatso D, Merc 4 or 6 cyl. These are what you can race & kinda have to to get this equipment. Also these are no messin around fast & it might not be a good idea to run one around where you can/will hit a rougue wake you might not've seen till your fly-in sooo, Id think more along the lines of C or less for play. Merc 30Hs can be raced in C, also can run with the Yamatos but hearsay is the Yamato being less top heavy will out-turn a 30H.

jeff55vDSH
03-20-2009, 06:01 PM
Rick, So...you wanna go fast? You want a Merc? You prefer a hydro? If you'd like to go racing in a sanctioned event, there are quite a few complete D rigs for sale. Here's a D stock rig:http://www.hydroracer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14656

add: If it's still for sale...it's a fast one!

Mark75H
03-20-2009, 06:29 PM
I agree, to run a 4, 6 or 3 will require a 12 to 14 ft boat, good safety gear and a chase boat and are too small to run with normal boats & PWC's. You can't survive the wake from a 85 mph bass boat in an 80 mph hydro.

It takes serious set up to get an old D past the 80 threshold; modern D's are what used to be called E's and do flirt with the 80's.

The only place 30's and Yamatos can race together is in C Mod. In C mod you can make either motor so short there is no advantage to the shorter 2 cylinder Yamato. Whole, out of the box Yamatos are considerably taller than a whole 30H

Rick is in NC, that rig is in Michigan or northwest Ohio

I think it would be best for Rick to come to the Tabor City, NC June 13 or Roanoke Rapids VA June 27 and take a first hand look at the boats and maybe take a ride in one.

D is now 44ci in both Stock and Mod (now called 750cc)
D is the biggest class in Stock, Mod has a class called 850cc where 44's can race with the bigger 49 and 60 ci motors with few restrictions on modification

RickHex
03-21-2009, 03:42 PM
Thanks for all the great feedback! I'm learning a lot.

I'd like to go to one of those races that were mentioned, but we'll have to see as my wif'e pregnant with twins and their due in August. I'd like to teach them about boats/cars and perhaps build a small runabout or hydro with them when they're 10- 12 or so and maybe they'd like to run the J class???

In the meantime, I'm thinking that for myself in our lake, wouldn't a runnabout be a bit safaer and less likely to have problems with wakes? Also less likely to catch air and flip?

Perhaps building or restoring a 11 - 13 ft runabout (any recommendaions on what brand/model) with something newer like a Merc 25XS or I'm still really liking the old 20H, 30H, or 55H units....

I also really like the looks of the newer (BASS Machines or are their others) lower units and was wondering if these might offer some advantages over the older merc lower units in terms or parts/props availablility and performance?

Thanks again guys.

Rick

JohnsonM50
03-21-2009, 04:19 PM
Thanks for all the great feedback! I'm learning a lot.

I'd like to go to one of those races that were mentioned, but we'll have to see as my wif'e pregnant with twins and their due in August. I'd like to teach them about boats/cars and perhaps build a small runabout or hydro with them when they're 10- 12 or so and maybe they'd like to run the J class???

In the meantime, I'm thinking that for myself in our lake, wouldn't a runnabout be a bit safaer and less likely to have problems with wakes? Also less likely to catch air and flip?

Perhaps building or restoring a 11 - 13 ft runabout (any recommendaions on what brand/model) with something newer like a Merc 25XS or I'm still really liking the old 20H, 30H, or 55H units....

I also really like the looks of the newer (BASS Machines or are their others) lower units and was wondering if these might offer some advantages over the older merc lower units in terms or parts/props availablility and performance?

Thanks again guys.

RickI can tell ya this [having learned the WET way:D] I can take my Airborn B runabout out in water that would submarine my hydro & go full blast 50-55 all over the place. Its fastest in 6"- 8" chop & can go thru much ruff-er.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/mes355/647578-R1-12-13A_013.jpg
A modern B would run away from one of these old style utility [water-ski Friday/race Saturday] runabouts with ease but in ruff?? probably still. :rolleyes:

RickHex
03-21-2009, 04:49 PM
Thanks.

So what engine would you run on that older B (Airborne) boat? Would a 20H or 25XS be best? What length is that boat in the picture?

So are you saying the older runabouts such as the Airborn would be better/more stable in rough water? Or would a newer runabout be ok in the lake for cruising around?

Whats my best bet to go fast maybe 60's (Runabout/motor) with wakes around and still be able to race it? Also I'd like it to hold two people when I'm in tha lake....

Rick

JohnsonM50
03-21-2009, 06:16 PM
Thanks.

So what engine would you run on that older B (Airborne) boat? Would a 20H or 25XS be best? What length is that boat in the picture?

So are you saying the older runabouts such as the Airborn would be better/more stable in rough water? Or would a newer runabout be ok in the lake for cruising around?

Whats my best bet to go fast maybe 60's (Runabout/motor) with wakes around and still be able to race it? Also I'd like it to hold two people when I'm in tha lake....

Rick The Airborn was designed for a 20H, closest I got was a stock MK25 on an AB, not super fast but the boat handled great with such a light motor. The OMC on now is much heavier. You could race a classic runabout/hydro w/a legal classic motor but if you want to race stock outboard or a mod class a modern boat is the choice. Hydroracer.net has a pretty active buy-sell section, the best deal probably is a complete rig.

jeff55vDSH
03-21-2009, 06:19 PM
I'm thinking that for myself in our lake, wouldn't a runnabout be a bit safaer and less likely to have problems with wakes? Also less likely to catch air and flip?

Perhaps building or restoring a 11 - 13 ft runabout (any recommendaions on what brand/model) with something newer like a Merc 25XS or I'm still really liking the old 20H, 30H, or 55H units....

I also really like the looks of the newer (BASS Machines or are their others) lower units and was wondering if these might offer some advantages over the older merc lower units in terms or parts/props availablility and performance?

Thanks again guys.

Rick

If your lake is large, you'll need a runabout. Waves and wakes can come from nowhere and cause a hydro to stuff. Even with a large runabout, you can get waves from nowhere that will scare the s*** outa you! Take it from me.

For lake play, why bother with a vintage racing motor? They're old, overpriced, and difficult to find parts for. For the amount you'd spend on an old 20H, you could buy a nearly new 35hp service motor. Then you'll have more power than a 20H and gearshift.
Also...
The Bass lower unit is far superior in design to the 40+year old Merc quicky... period.

Mark75H
03-21-2009, 06:26 PM
It has been decades since there was a competitive Stock hydro or runabout that could be used as a pleasure/racer. Even runabouts are too small and flighty.

RickHex
03-21-2009, 07:05 PM
So with something like a Airborn (11 ft) that I can get plans for from Clark Craft which more modern merc. would be best? 25XS or is there something else? What class and engines can be used to race something like this?

What powerhead would be good if I went with the Bass Machines lower?

Being an R&D engineer and into working on engines, I'd like to build something for the motor/lower unit.

What would make sense for this boat?

Rick

immulmen
03-22-2009, 07:10 AM
Rick
Go to a race and ask questions. If I where to make a boat to play with I would go with a utility design that was raced in the 50's. This was a play all week and race on the weekend boat and it has a front cockpit for a passenger.
I am new to racing stock outboards and can tell you it is not easy to understand the details. In the one year, only 5 races, I have watched boats flip or the drivers get ejected. This includes my son going swimming two times.
http://www.southshoreoutboard.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=158
http://www.southshoreoutboard.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=157
This yellow 53A is my son. It is a CSH [C stock hydro] with a Yamato 102 [photo below]
http://www.southshoreoutboard.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=193
This 22N I think is an ASR? [15hp] and the photo was taken just before it flipped.
http://www.southshoreoutboard.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=197

This photo of the white boat is a BSR [B stock runabout] built in 1975 with a 100% stock 1979 johnson 25hp. This set up will do close to 40mph. This set up does very good in VERY rough water at this speed. I don't know what it would be like with another 15 to 20mph.

JohnsonM50
03-22-2009, 07:41 AM
So with something like a Airborn (11 ft) that I can get plans for from Clark Craft which more modern merc. would be best? 25XS or is there something else? What class and engines can be used to race something like this?

What powerhead would be good if I went with the Bass Machines lower?

Being an R&D engineer and into working on engines, I'd like to build something for the motor/lower unit.

What would make sense for this boat?

Rick I helped a pal build a Wetback hydro & decided to build 1 for me. I looked at his ClarkCraft mag & chose the Airborn for its look. It comes with no kit but may be a good thing cause the Wetback kit is about 170lbs. Hal Kelly designed it to weigh 130lbs. The plywood is fir [even has the little footballs] so the get it to reach 50mph took some doin.
I had to gather the frame wood, Sitka Spruce was the only kind I couldnt find at a lumberyard but found online. The ply I got from Harbor. I chose Sepele because it has a moderate durability compared to the usual Okuome which is rated perisable. [fine for epoxy saturation & as strong -a bit lighter].
Im partial to the Airborn but there are others that will do as well. Thing is From the buy/build to the 1st test run theres no way to be sure youll be satisfied or not & then be invested in it.

RickHex
03-22-2009, 08:05 AM
Thanks,

Yes, I should go to a race and I'm sure that would be helpful at answering 1quite a few of my questions.

What's a utility design boat that you can play with in the week and race on weekends?

On that Hal Kelly Airborn 11' B, what engines did/can you run? Are they still racing this class? And whats a wetback design for this boat?

Rick

JohnsonM50
03-22-2009, 08:20 AM
Thanks,

Yes, I should go to a race and I'm sure that would be helpful at answering 1quite a few of my questions.

What's a utility design boat that you can play with in the week and race on weekends?

On that Hal Kelly Airborn 11' B, what engines did/can you run? Are they still racing this class? And whats a wetback design for this boat?

Rick It can be raced in classic as a B with a 20H a Champion hot rod. Even if you could race it in regular B class it would not be able to go as fast [50ish at best] & more importantly turn as well as modern equipment. I started with a 22ci stock lower OMC, was not satisfied with 34mph or its lack of go in general. The big block 31.8 offered much better power but only a little more speed. Then I went with a race lower & now its good all around & improving. I intend to try my hydro rat motor on it, 20 lbs less motor weight should be nice.:cool: Going to the races is good on many levels.. enjoy the show, sometimes stuff is for sale there. If not for the love of building one might be better suited buying.

DeanFHobart
03-23-2009, 03:23 PM
The Hal Kelly Foo Ling is a better design than the Airborne.

:cool::cool::D:D

JohnsonM50
03-23-2009, 03:53 PM
The Hal Kelly Foo Ling is a better design than the Airborne.

:cool::cool::D:D

Oooh-K - Is that because of the external upper chine? Ive heard something about it being good. I heard also that on the Airborn, the last 3' or so of lower chine having the 1/4" bottom ply left square could trip it up in a turn. Also a funky transition to make building it. I rounded mine over & it turns more predictably since " And not only that Skipper" she turns BOTH ways...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d151/mes355/Boat030.jpg

MTECHMARINE
03-23-2009, 07:43 PM
I have an Airborne, 50 years old, original 1958, it's heavy, takes all I can manage to carry the back:( and with an unconverted 20H it runs about the same speeds I achieved with a KG-4/MK15 in the 60's on a "Foti Craft".

It might be faster with my MK40H:D:D:eek:

I think I'll build meself a new style boat thats LIGHT!!

JohnsonM50
03-23-2009, 08:18 PM
I have an Airborne, 50 years old, original 1958, it's heavy, takes all I can manage to carry the back:( and with an unconverted 20H it runs about the same speeds I achieved with a KG-4/MK15 in the 60's on a "Foti Craft".

It might be faster with my MK40H:D:D:eek:

I think I'll build meself a new style boat thats LIGHT!!

Yeah mines 158w/hardware, was meant to be 130 but the Sepele weighs more plus I added a bit for looks & strength.

Lee Sutter
04-13-2009, 10:34 PM
I have an Airborne, 50 years old, original 1958, it's heavy, takes all I can manage to carry the back:( and with an unconverted 20H it runs about the same speeds I achieved with a KG-4/MK15 in the 60's on a "Foti Craft".

It might be faster with my MK40H:D:D:eek:

I think I'll build meself a new style boat thats LIGHT!!
Would you please tell me about your Foti Craft? Don Foti built a lot of his boats in my dad's shop in Seattle. Thanks.

MTECHMARINE
04-16-2009, 09:31 AM
Aloha Lee, from Bill Kelly, now in NW Florida.

Lets see - I think I got that boat in 1963 for A runabout. I remember it being built in a garage, I think it was at Don's place, but not knowing everybody and being shy I never asked. Did OK in AU, later I ran it in ARR with an Anzani and BU as well, it was a great boat. Craig Selvidge bought it from me in 1969 when I got involved in OPC.

BTW, there is a thread up here from Don Peterson in Bellevue about what he thinks is a Clark-Kraft and I think it's a Foti as well. I saw it B4 he took the numbers off, it was 13-R which as I recall Was Leroy Abinati's number. It's all Utile and I don't think Maloof used that wood exclusively. Take a look.