Elgin Gates & C.W.'Doc' Jones...
Ron;
Elgin Gates is a very familiar name from our memories of the late 1950’s. I think that some of the older SOA racers did remember that the insignia was Gate’s Jacoby, a bit of 'tribal' knowledge. In that era there were nice publications for reading about outboard racing so the Notable names were etched in memory. That reading included the Winnebagoland & Stockton to Redding marathon days which alway seemed fairly dramatic.
There is a short memory of Entrop telling about Doc’s business transition from Merc to OMC and the move to AZ. Might have been mention of E. Gates then too. The later years where the Hill’s were involved is interesting to learn about. Seems to be a very odd & unfortunate end arrangement for the Hill - Mercury connection.
Entrop spoke about Doc Jones in a way that it was easy to know they were very good friends. Had they lived in the same town you would expect them to be pals. In one of those rolling DeSoto conversations I asked Hugh about the “Doc” nickname, thinking it may be a professional attribute. I don’t recall that answer but did learn that he was C.W. Jones and answered to either.
My most distinct memory in 1959 was the Stock Outboard Nat’s at Seattle’s Green Lake. The California racer families were all gathered at the West end of the pit area. It was quite interesting to wander around and talk a little at the R. Hill, H. Bartolomei, J. Alden (I think), and L. Stevens (maybe), very substantial trailers. There were a few more with smaller rigs and car-toppers. Bunch of racer kids attached; everyone well tanned and wondering about the “rain bleached” Seattle crews. We could see their fine tans when they pulled off their winter jackets to go racing on a nice warm Seattle day. First sight of an M hydro motor in the Bartolomei trailer and a tiny hull on the top rack. I think a similar gang arrived at the same spot some years later for an Outboard Divisionals so I get the memory images mixed together.
Russ R.
Elgin Gates, Had His Own Shelf in My Dad's Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OldRJexSea
Ron;
Elgin Gates is a very familiar name from our memories of the late 1950’s. I think that some of the older SOA racers did remember that the insignia was Gate’s Jacoby, a bit of 'tribal' knowledge. In that era there were nice publications for reading about outboard racing so the Notable names were etched in memory. That reading included the Winnebagoland & Stockton to Redding marathon days which alway seemed fairly dramatic.
There is a short memory of Entrop telling about Doc’s business transition from Merc to OMC and the move to AZ. Might have been mention of E. Gates then too. The later years where the Hill’s were involved is interesting to learn about. Seems to be a very odd & unfortunate end arrangement for the Hill - Mercury connection.
Entrop spoke about Doc Jones in a way that it was easy to know they were very good friends. Had they lived in the same town you would expect them to be pals. In one of those rolling DeSoto conversations I asked Hugh about the “Doc” nickname, thinking it may be a professional attribute. I don’t recall that answer but did learn that he was C.W. Jones and answered to either.
My most distinct memory in 1959 was the Stock Outboard Nat’s at Seattle’s Green Lake. The California racer families were all gathered at the West end of the pit area. It was quite interesting to wander around and talk a little at the R. Hill, H. Bartolomei, J. Alden (I think), and L. Stevens (maybe), very substantial trailers. There were a few more with smaller rigs and car-toppers. Bunch of racer kids attached; everyone well tanned and wondering about the “rain bleached” Seattle crews. We could see their fine tans when they pulled off their winter jackets to go racing on a nice warm Seattle day. First sight of an M hydro motor in the Bartolomei trailer and a tiny hull on the top rack. I think a similar gang arrived at the same spot some years later for an Outboard Divisionals so I get the memory images mixed together.
Russ R.
Never fear, my dad and Elgin and Carl were friends til the end. My dad had a six car garage in Bellflower, where he worked on outboard motors. Elgin had his own shelf of various candies, in my dad's garage. My dad was a painter, but made a good living at it, never wanted to be in the boat business. He liked to make motors go fast. His dealership lasted until he died, March 1997.
1959, Green Lake National were all Stocks. Harry Bartolomei wasn't there, John Alden was, and he flipped in qualifying, his last Stock Outboard Race. Some of those "TANNED" Californian "STUDS" was me! I played varsity football as a Sophomore, we ran the beach in the morning, and rode air matt's, til one ever day...at Huntington Beach.
MANY PEOPLE IN NEWPORT BEACH TALK ABOUT JOHN WAYNE'S HOUSE, I ALWAYS SAY, "YOU MEAN ELGIN GATE'S?" ELGIN SOLD HIS HOUSE TO JOHN WAYNE WHEN MERCURY BOUGHT HIM OUT.
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Hallum's Ram’s Horn -B- Anzani pipes photo & other odd items.
My previous posts referred to the rather unique different exhaust pipe systems for the Anzani -A- & -B- engines produced by Jim Hallum during the early 1960's. I did not have photos of those unusual pipe systems, still do not unfortunately, but have found some following a BRF thread lead web link.
Much thanks to the photo website, www.outboardracing.com in Puyallup, WA (near Tacoma). It tells that the photos shown were mostly from Bob Carver or Hugh Entrop stored images.
Walin’s trailer box usually carried the latest version of their original A & B Anzani for normal competition. Those engines also ran the higher-nitro fuel for the early Kilo record runs. In rather few years the set of power heads, tuned pipes, tower housings, and various geared lower units might at times fill the trailer box. The whole set of engine equipment available was always in flux with the maintenance, repairs, endless modifications, and limited time for it all.
One year that Walin’s trailer carried all of the early specialty motors & pipe systems was for the 1966 APBA Nationals at DePue, IL and the week later NOA Nationals in Midland, MI. Midland also included Kilo trials so Gerry’s trailer carried the straightaway hull and the full special setup for that in A & B. The standard course competition engines were also in the trailer box. (Small photo, BRF_encyclopedia_ James Hallum_ p-3, in a Milwaukee motel parking lot).
Included was the -A- “straightaway” Anzani with the diverter valved twin-pipe per cylinder system and the -B- “course race” Anzani with the newer “Ram’s Horn” expansion chamber pipes. The “mile/kilo record hull” is seen on the trailer waiting for the Midland-NOA speed traps.
No photo of the 4-pipe -A- Anzani but here is a good photo of the original “Ram’s Horn” -B- Anzani first use in late 1965 or early 1966. Hallum rechecking the timing. These first-use -B-expansion chambers running normal course 25-30% nitro fuel produced power equal to or more than the same motor with std. megaphones & 45% nitro fuel used only for Kilo trials. The extremely steep power curve rise when the ‘bounce-pipes’ tuned in put excess stress on crankshaft & rods which was not produced by the high-nitro w/megaphone combination or the normal fuel w/megaphone pipes. Hallum was pleased with the Ram’s Horn pipes for dyno & course racing power but not happy with the resulting crank & rod issues. Too often twisted -B- cranks, some broken. Megaphones were used for Kilo records by needing the unrestricted low rpm power to haul the large props from planing to operating speed.
Original Ram’s Horn -B- Anzani photo. Second photo is Lee Sutter in a later year use with the troublesome magneto removed.
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Now for a final surprise photos, a unique old motor setup that I added to those initial strange pipe building years of the early 1960’s Seattle scene. I did not remember that the photo’s existed, that anyone still alive had ever seen the motor, or that anyone remembered, so no chance of my mention of it. An old friend did remember seeing it so the best estimate of the build year was 1962 over winter. This was after the first Hallum valved twin-pipe test Tohatsu 50cc motorcycle use and maybe during the initial building of the -A- Anzani diverter valve 4 pipe system (which was a long process). It was a bit of a shock to see this old 55-H beast again. Set on a runabout for the photo shoot I guess. Time & money ran out for me & the motor after one test on my hydro. (Added photo of the Hallum Tohatsu 50cc moto later set up for 1/4 mile drag w/Jim Dunn riding).
Russ Rotzler
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It ain't vast, it's just old. :-)
Somewhere along this trail, Master Oil Team & Wayne B. settled into my understanding.
So, Wayne; the Title is true, I was there during a transition time for outboard and moto GP racing (and others similar);... and was trying to gain knowledge. The journalist coverage of the era and much supporting details was very well done. So I read it, remember it because of timely correct details, and eventually it all becomes Old Information. The problem of not remembering this many decades past of stuff that sort of no longer matters certainly does not merit a "wealth of knowledge" characterization. Only maybe a decade later you active folks gathered your own very worthy history & a complete set of advancing details.
My oldest vague memories of rotary valve published information are so muddled that to comment on the disc rotary valve concept or its first use would be bogus. I am not at all sure why this old thought pops up but here goes. It could easily be wrong. The Isle of Mann moto-GP races up through the very early 1960's had a 50cc class winner one year manufactured by Kreidler of Germany, (not sure of the spelling). The motor was, I think, a single cyl., disk rotary valve type and showed quite a power advantage. It also had a secondary "overdrive" type gear system so had 12 gear ratios fit the power to that odd hilly road course. I recall listening to the sound records of that race in Jim Dunn's basement with the Kreidler accelerating out of the slowest corner and shifting up almost endlessly. The rider interview later was fun as he (Anscheit?) was saying, "Ya, mit de hand and mit de foot ve make 12 gears".
The oldest diagrams of rotary valves I recall were cylindrical and used for industrial applications where external "supercharging" was operating so exhaust ports & inlet ports/passages needed to be sealed at particular times.
As for the disk rotary valve; If the German fellow you mentioned, Zimmerman, was part of that Kreidler motorcycle factory team then he certainly would be a candidate for all following applications of disk rotary valves.
I doubt that this helps much with your question but maybe it provides some old leading information to track.
Russ R.