The Hydrostream V-Wings - Havasu 1981

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05-27-2008
Ted March

8 Attachment(s)

The Hydrostream V-Wings - Havasu 1981

Below is a quote from Ron made in a post on the thread "Rod Zapf's HST"

"LAST ADD: Just got off the phone with Chris Bush. Four V-Wings, "V" as in Victory...Rigged in the parking lot of the Holiday Inn, Lake Havasu City...: 1. Jim Bremmer drove the Mariner. 2. Chris Bush drove the Evinrude...Evinrude "FELL" out of gear Saturday. Bush won Sunday.. 3. Roger Meekins drove one and 4. Dick Kotean from Minnesota....This is what Chris Bush remembers... "

Below are athe four V-Wings

128 Roger Meekins - Johnson
131 Jim Bremmer - Mariner
220 Dick (Rick) Kotean (sp) - Mercury
303 Chris Bush-Evinrude

Left Side 1 & 2 down is the start of Day 1
Left Side 6 down is start of Day 2. In race sequence 5 & 6 right follow 6 left.
Right Side 8 Down is the Holiday Inn parking lot where most of the rigging was done.
Howard Pipkorn, owner of Hudrostream is leaning over the boat.
06-01-2008
slowverado

dad was just talking about those boats the other day, something about how everyone said they would kick the Laser's butt to the first turn and on the straightaways... and also included something about Joe getting to the first turn before ANYONE else in the ole Laser...
06-03-2008
Ted March

Don't really know who was first to the first turn, but.....the first boat to complete the first lap on Day 1 was the 34 Eliminator of Fred Bowden followed by the 20 Lazer 380 Ray of Mike Quindazzi. On Day 2 the leader at the end of the lap one was the 34X Eliminaator with Mike Miller (I think) driving followed by Joe Burgess in the 56 Lazer 380 Ray.

Roark brought two boats to Havasu which were also rigged in the parking lot. In this case the parking lot of the Ramada Inn. Joe Burgess drove the Black and Orange 56 and I don't remember who drove the White 270.

I'm pretty sure the final results were Fred Bowden's two Eliminators, the 34 and the 34X finishing 1 & 2 and the 56 and 270 380 Rays finiishing 3 & 4 overall.

I'll try to post some pictures later on today showing the the end of Lap 1 on Day 1 and Day 2. Maybe Ron or someone else can confirm or add to (or correct) the above.
06-05-2008
Ted March

2 Attachment(s)

Day 1 - Lap 1

This is how they were runmning at the completion of Lap 1 on Day 1..

Top Left - Fred Bowden #34 Eliminator
Top Right - Mike Quindazzi - #20 Lazer 380R ay
Bottom Left - Jim Bremmer - #131 - Hydrostream V Wing
Mike Miller - 34X - Eliminator
Bottom Right - Ron Hill - #9 - Eliminator
Kenny Shaw - 958 Allison
06-05-2008
Ted March

2 Attachment(s)

Day 2 - Lap 1

Running oreder at the end of Lap 1 Day 2.

Top Left - That orange spot in the distance is Mike Miller in the 34X on the back stretch. Can't identify the others.
Top Right - Mike Miller - 34X - Eliminator
Joe Burges - #56 Lazer 380 Ray
Bottom Left - Right to Left
Jim Brenner - #131 - Hydrostream V Wing (???)
Chris Bush - #303 - Hydrostream V Wing
Kenny Shaw - #958 - Allison
Ron Hill - 9 - Eliminator
Kim Howard - 681 - Sleekcraft
Bottom Right - Right to Left
Kenny Shaw - #958 Allison
Ron Hill - #9 - Eliminator

Anyone wants to commment or add, (correct) please feel free.
06-06-2008
slowverado

where are all of the v-wings now? I have never actually seen one in person
06-06-2008
Rusrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowverado

where are all of the v-wings now? I have never actually seen one in person

No doubt. Would be cool to see one much less find one in resurrect-able condition. Does anyone have any pics of the bottom design???
06-06-2008
Ron Hill

Love To Have

Ted, any chance of me getting an enlargement of that last picture of me....? As I recall, when I broke my throttle wire, Howard Pipkorn, himself, wadded neck deep in that cold water to wire my throttle wire back....That 19 Eliminator was laid up by Bob Leach's son, Brent Leach....and when the bottom had a hole after the first day, Brent fixed it for me that night...Bob Leach gave me that boat for helping promote Eliminator boats....

I never looked under a V-Wing...assumed they were like a NUN'S chest!!!
06-06-2008
tthibodaux

I remember seeing one but I was like 6 years old so I didn't pay much attention to it. I do remember it looking very strange compared to other Mod VP boats at the time. I too would like for one to pop up again for a second look. I can't say because I was sworn to secrecy but one will pop up shortly for us all to enjoy!!:D You know who you are so if your reading this come on and show it to us!;)
06-06-2008
march3stv

Northern Wing

Hmmm??? I'm sensing it may be in Minneapolis Mn:p
06-07-2008
Ted March

1 Attachment(s)

Maybe

this is why you're bottom broke!!!
06-24-2008
Mark Poole

I talked to Jim Bremmer several times over the years when he was with OMC. He told me that the center pod of the boats were exteneded way back along with the transom extention. This made the boats very fast on the straights but he said they were almost impossible to get around the corner at speed.
03-28-2010
Smokin' Joe

2 Attachment(s)

Here are 2 more from 1981. I'm driving Fred Schoellkopf's Laser. Moved from 50th to 13th but wasn't competitive with the Mod-V tunnels once bottom of gearcase water pickups were allowed (85 mph vs. about 100 mph). Photos by Terry Strack (Houston).
04-26-2010
slowverado

Joe, was the laser above at the Palestine, TX Mod VP race ~April 1982?
04-26-2010
Smokin' Joe

Maybe driven by Fred Schoellkopf with Mercury. Louis Collins drive it at Havasu with Mercury in 1980, I drove it there with Evinrude (shown in photo above) in 1981. I didn't drive it anywhere else, and so far as I know neither did Louis.
04-28-2010
slowverado

gotcha, I only ask because I have a video of the 1982 Mod VP race at Lake Palestine and there is a laser just like that with a johnrude on it competing...
05-02-2011
rev.ronnie

I looked at one of the V Wings that was for sale once in St Paul. Coincidentally, it was only a mile from the last Hydrostream factory in Maplewood. It was pretty rough and not the pleasure boat I was looking for. the guy was really trying to sell me on the thing as a ski boat...it had a big Evinrude on it..like a 225 I think.

It's funny that my uncles business is now in that same old factory. I was telling that to him once and mentioned Howard. My uncle says "yeah, I know Howard Pipkorn, I went to high school with him". Small world, I mentioned it to Howard a little while back and he remembers my uncle too.
05-06-2011
Smokin' Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted March

Below is a quote from Ron made in a post on the thread "Rod Zapf's HST"

"LAST ADD: Just got off the phone with Chris Bush. Four V-Wings, "V" as in Victory...Rigged in the parking lot of the Holiday Inn, Lake Havasu City...: 1. Jim Bremmer drove the Mariner. 2. Chris Bush drove the Evinrude...Evinrude "FELL" out of gear Saturday. Bush won Sunday.. 3. Roger Meekins drove one and 4. Dick Kotean from Minnesota....This is what Chris Bush remembers... "

Below are athe four V-Wings

128 Roger Meekins - Johnson
131 Jim Bremmer - Mariner
220 Dick (Rick) Kotean (sp) - Mercury
303 Chris Bush-Evinrude

Left Side 1 & 2 down is the start of Day 1
Left Side 6 down is start of Day 2. In race sequence 5 & 6 right follow 6 left.
Right Side 8 Down is the Holiday Inn parking lot where most of the rigging was done.
Howard Pipkorn, owner of Hudrostream is leaning over the boat.

I wonder if 1981 is right. I drove a Laser V in 1981 and no Hydrostream won on either day, mod-V tunnels from Calif. dominated. Also, I don't recall any blue skies in the 1981 race.
05-07-2011
Ron Hill

Is This An '81 Evinrude?

What year did the 161 cubic inch V-6 Evinrude come up? If it was '79, I drove with Tim Soares in '79. '80 I had a 21 Eliminator and 1981, I ran this 19 Daytona...That was the year that the Hydrostream Crew rigged their boats in the parking lot of the Holiday Inn...Chris Bush could not believe they were getting ready then, when everyone else came to the race rigged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted March

this is why you're bottom broke!!!
05-07-2011
Smokin' Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Hill

What year did the 161 cubic inch V-6 Evinrude come up? If it was '79, I drove with Tim Soares in '79. '80 I had a 21 Eliminator and 1981, I ran this 19 Daytona...That was the year that the Hydrostream Crew rigged their boats in the parking lot of the Holiday Inn...Chris Bush could not believe they were getting ready then, when everyone else came to the race rigged.

The 161 c.i. OMC was not available in 1979 at Havasu except to Kenny Shaw (who won with an Allison/Johnson), me (I ran third, Allison/Evinrude), and Bill Muncy. My motor was shipped to me from Waukegan with an OMC engineer's name on the carton. Ditto Kenny. In 1980 Louis Collins ran a Mercury/Laser V and should have won. 1981 was the year that under-gearcase water pickups were allowed, so the mod-v tunnels (the entire state of California) jumped from about 85 mph to about 100 mph. I ran a Laser V/Evinrude in 1981, same boat Collins ran in 1980. So the Hydrostream business discussed above had to be 1982 or later. Remember the gambler who lost the use of his arm in a racing accident, we had a fund-raiser for him around the Eliminator factory owner's swimming pool west of Pasadena in 6/1983? Fred Bowden played a big role in organizing that event, Alan Stoker and I went around the pool collecting pledges (I met Al's mother and dad there, liked them a lot). I think the gambler won in 1981 with a Mercury on a black mod V tunnel. What's his name!?
05-07-2011
Ron Hill

Kim Howard, The Gambler

I need to look things up...

These are the MOD VP I raced or owned:

1. I ran a Witch Craft
2. A 21 Foot Eliminator: Stoker won, Fred Bowden was second in Vee Bottom Baker Stokers
3. A 19 Foot Eliminator: Fred Bowden won and Ted Miller's son's were second in Fred's # 2 boat...Both were Eliminator Daytonas with low water pick ups.
4. A red Sleek Craft: Stoker won, Louis Collins had the fastest boat there, a MERCURY
5. A white Sleek Craft: Kim Howard won.

I'll look for some magazines to figure out the years...
05-07-2011
Smokin' Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Hill

I need to look things up...

These are the MOD VP I raced or owned:

1. I ran a Witch Craft
2. A 21 Foot Eliminator: Stoker won, Fred Bowden was second in Vee Bottom Baker Stokers
3. A 19 Foot Eliminator: Fred Bowden won and Ted Miller's son's were second in Fred's # 2 boat...Both were Eliminator Daytonas with low water pick ups.
4. A red Sleek Craft: Stoker won, Louis Collins had the fastest boat there, a MERCURY
5. A white Sleek Craft: Kim Howard won.

I'll look for some magazines to figure out the years...

1980: A red Sleek Craft: Stoker won, Louis Collins had the fastest boat there, a MERCURY
1981, but I thought it was black. Kim Howard is right: A white Sleek Craft: Kim Howard won.
05-09-2011
Danny Pigott

Mod VP

Why did Mod V, Mod VP and all the other V botton classes die. Was it because Merc. stopped supporting the Dealers. I never thought i would go to a OPC race an not see an Allison.
05-09-2011
Ron Hill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe

1980: A red Sleek Craft: Stoker won, Louis Collins had the fastest boat there, a MERCURY
1981, but I thought it was black. Kim Howard is right: A white Sleek Craft: Kim Howard won.

We, Hill Marine, ran a white Sleek. Kim Howard won with a BLACK SLEEK.

Louis Collins was "DOCKED" a lap for cutting someone off....Ask me for my side of the story and I'll tell you.

Danny...Mod V and MOD VP...Their death, many reasons:

1. OMC liked the idea of V-8 racing and only built a few MOD VP motors....

2. Mercury liked selling 2.0 Champ motors and SST 140 motors for HIGH DOLLARS

3. Mercury REALLY didn't like the idea that Yamaha could win with BOX STOCK motors....

4. Major corporations use boat racing for THEIR NEEDS, not boat racer's needs.

Want me to go on????
05-09-2011
Smokin' Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Pigott

Why did Mod V, Mod VP and all the other V botton classes die. Was it because Merc. stopped supporting the Dealers. I never thought i would go to a OPC race an not see an Allison.

Danny, Mod VP killed the interest in the small classes like EP, JP. I'm not sure why Mod VP failed, I got out in 1985. I guess the unlimited tunnel class went under because it became too fast, too dangerous, too expensive. Renato Molinari showed up at one point in Europe with twin V-8s on the transom of a 20' tunnel. The current APBA V class makes no sense to me. Only longshaft motors, mix of 50-1900 c.i., limit on how high you can run the motor on the transom. Pretty unappetizing, I'd say. Not the sort of thing we'd go for, is it? I like the GT-Pro Class in Minn. where they run the OMC 30/35 about 50 mph on tunnels and Vs. Would be a good entry level class.
05-09-2011
Smokin' Joe

I was right first time, black boat (Sleek)/Merc won in 1981, driver was (I'd forgotten name) Kim Howard!

The reasons listed above are surely correct. Especially that the factories run for themselves, not for the drivers. Sometimes the different interests coincided. For a while.
05-09-2011
Mark Poole

The biggest killer of Mod-VP was Mercury building "special" but still legal engines for certain (real good) drivers. This was done to try and outrun Al Stoker. When the other drivers found out about this they just threw up their hands and sold their rigs.

I was racing when the rules changed and allowed Steve Robertson's Eagle to race against V bottoms in unlimited V. Many V bottoms drivers did not like this invasion.
05-09-2011
Ron Hill

You Mean Like This????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Poole

The biggest killer of Mod-VP was Mercury building "special" but still legal engines for certain (real good) drivers. This was done to try and outrun Al Stoker. When the other drivers found out about this they just threw up their hands and sold their rigs.

I was racing when the rules changed and allowed Steve Robertson's Eagle to race against V bottoms in unlimited V. Many V bottoms drivers did not like this invasion.

Ted Bravo was a Mariner dealer in New York. He owned three or four Mod VP's. We went to the Aquatenelle (How ever you spell it...) and Ted rented Mod VP motor off the Mercury Racing truck. As I recall we finished third. When they pulled the head for inspection Ted said, "That is NOT a legal block". They said, "Oh yes it is, it came off Mercury's truck."

So, Ted goes to the Mercury truck and says he wants to buy the engine he just rented. Mercury says, "No, we only rent those motors...".....Really!!! That was Ted Bravo's last MOD VP race...
05-09-2011
fyremanbill

I remember a rule change around 1986 or 87 limiting port height on the mercs. It made our 2 yr old factory merc ModVP engine obsolete. The "new" spec was better than the stock mercs came from the factory, but with chrome bores, you couldn't raise the ports to spec. However, some guys just seemed to get "lucky" and get perfectly blueprinted engines right off the assembly line.:rolleyes:
05-15-2011
Dabull1919

How do you kill a national class? You take it off of the national circuit wich was IOGP at the time Mod-VP died. If you take away the dream of running the "big" circuit then the class will die nationally.

I don`t know who`s idea it was to eliminate Mod-VP from IOGP compitition but it worked. One year later there wasn`t a Mod-VP rigg to be found. They all went drag racing i guess. DUMB move if you ask me. Membership dollars, Entry fee`s and interest in APBA all went to drag racing association`s.

On second thought, Maybe it wasn`t Mod-VP they were trying to kill. Maybe it was OPC!!! Without Mod-VP, I really don`t care about OPC or APBA.

DB
05-15-2011
Ron Hill

Small People Think Small...

You usually don't have to look very far to find "SMALL" people running things. Look at a "Condo" or "Home Owners" association. These "SMALL" people because they have NOTHING TO DO get themselves elected. Then, first off they become IMPORTANT because they got elected.

Then they do IMPORTANT things, like make rules to tow you car if you park in front of your house when they have self appointed themselves to the put up NO PARKING SIGNS...

These "SMALL PEOPLE" sit back and say, "Without me this neighbor would look like ****..." Really??? Without these people maybe the NEIGHBORHOOD would be a neighborhood.

I lived the first thirty years of my life without a home owners ***. and the next thirty with them. Do you really thing the $3,000 doors I put in my house made the value on the neighborhood go down? Was the $15,000 ON LEGAL FEES REALLY WORTH IT? MY $3,000 ON ON THAT HOUSE TODAY. HALF THE HOUSES IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE THE SAME DOORS TODAY AS I PAID $3,000.

Point Being about MOD VP, Mod 100, NOVICE HYDRO, Mod C, Formula 50, Family J......Evinrude 25 SS...to name a few class. Someone had an AXE to grind about these classes.

In the Outboard War years, it wasn't enough for Mercury to win, they WANTED TO SAY WHO would win. If Team Mercury won they could get a larger budget for next year. If Dick Sherrer, Mercury Dealer, if he happened to have his engine man, Ed Lane, build and engine that won Parker. Even though he was a Mercury Dealer, he was really treated as a traitor to Mercury Racing because he built his own engine.

Mercury Racing was once a "COUNTRY STORE" that tried to make a profit. When the BOD of Brunswick realized they could turn a HUGE profit from racing, the racers took it in the wallet.

Over the last 30 years Mercury Marine has done a great job taking care of Mercury Marine. They don't like Yamaha's winning races. They don't like Evinrude's winning races.

With Evinrude, Mercury and Yamaha racing MOD VP, someone was going to win.....If the class get "**** Canned"....Mercury can say, "It's not my fault...".
05-20-2011
Dabull1919

All you guys that have brought back the Parker race have done a great job. It gives us boat racers accross the contry something to shoot for. I have been trying to make it out there for the 300 sence ya`ll brought it back but haven`t been able to do it yet. Soon i hope. I have a Laser 380 and an Allison XR-2002 both comp hulls but really would like to do this race in a Seebold Warrior Mod-VP. I know it`s not the fastest boat by far but rides real smooth in the rough stuff.

DB