open face vs. full face helmets
I never liked full face helmets, becuase of the restricted side vision. I realize I`m giving up frontal protection with an open face helmet. I just bought a G-Force GF 650 open face helmet. I`ll paint it orange. My question is should I remove the visor?. Is the visor known to be a safety liability?
rich
How Times Change Regards Helmets
An interesting sidenote to this discussion, is how opinions and rules have changed regards full face helmets versus partial coverage designs over the years in boat racing.
In either the late 60's or early 70's, full face helmets started making a big "splash" (no pun intended) in various motor sports. The first helmet I had after starting back racing after a 10 year lay off in '68 was a Bell Star Full Face helmet. I really liked it and felt very safe and secure in it until I blew a tunnel boat over with someone else's on that did not fit as well as mine. Almost pulled my head off my body from the "bucket effect" and also when I finally got my head above water, I was still almost drowning because of the water trapped in the helmet and the water seal around the face shield preventing it from running out around the bottom. I lifted the shield with my hand and immediately got some air, and at the same time vowed I would NEVER wear anybody elses helmet, (that did not fit as well as mine) while racing or testing.
About this same time frame, there was a great deal of conversation about the "bucketing" effect of full face helmets being used in boat racing, in the event of a crash, and having been involved in that type of situation, I could appreciate the efforts that were being made to overcome it. At the same time I did not agree with the outright ban on full face helmets that was being talked about and trying to be enforced by having a rule against them in Boat Racing. Doc Collins had done a large amount of research (may be connected with the earlier remarks on this thread) and Alan Ishi, his driver at the time, wore one that fit very snugly to the head and offered very little area for "bucketing". I don't know what happened to that idea, probably a combination of small market and large liability in case someone got hurt wearing one, and it could be proved something else would have been safer. I don't believe I ever saw anyone wear one except Alan, although I am not familiar with what was taking place in other categories at the time.
That was, (I understand) the reason behind the push by APBA Safety Committe, or whoever it was that was against the wearing of full face helmets in boat racing, to drop the objection to them and the effort to ban their use by rule making. Someone at the time made the comment that if full face helmets were banned, without much research being done on harmful effects of same, someone who was forced to wear an open face helmet by rule could then sue if they were badly injured in the face area, as they had been prevented from wearing something that was approved in all other motor sports and could have prevented that type of facial injury. Plus some members at the time just did not like the "nanny state" type of rule making that is sometimes prevalent in all hazadous type of activity.
Interesting to see how things change and also remain the same over the years.
Interesting about the "tort" law
Sam:
Your comments are very interesting, not the least because that was EXACTLY my argument several years ago when the "radio rule" was so controversial, and so hot and heavy on both sides of the issue. My argument at that time, and still is, why, with all the categories under the APBA "umbrella" so to speak, is it OK to MANDATE safety equipment that can be used to prevent accidents in one or more categories, and then allow another category to make a rule against their use for certain classes dependent on how the driver is located in the boat and whether it has a safety capsule or not. That type of thinking , (so the category may "make its own rules" without outside interference by the APBA BOD) makes absolutely no sense, unless there is more here than meets the eye. You usually don't see this type of attitude by the BOD or the Safety Committee, especially when APBA wide liability could be at stake in a lawsuit by a member of the PRO category saying they are being denied the use of "safety" equipment" mandated for other categories in the same organization. I guess that is what I get for passing up law school for sales work, thank God.
There were a lot of factors pro and con back then still relevant now.
There sure was a lot of discussion pro and con open face versus closed face wrap around helmets back around the time of the intro of the Bell Star. Some factors still germaine are things like "neck loading" from helmet weight in regards to what the neck of the user can withstand. Another was taking a helmet off the injured driver where a medical cast cutting saw might have to be put in use removing a full face helmet where a head or neck injury might exist. Painting helmets is still an issue as the retail final sale helmet versions are engineered with their finish and color as part of the safety package. When you alter the helmets finish with your own color and coloring product you are changing the engineering of the helmet and its properties of safety to the wearer. Its deemed safer to buy an approved helmet with the approved color from its production at the factory and never to do your own job. As for open face helmets I liked using them with a moto cross saftey mask and intergral googles. The "Darth Vader look" was part of scaring the tar other drivers into staying away from you and the use of your "force" while you raced!! LOL! :)
Humor aside, helmets, good ones are serious safety businees to be treated seriously.
removal of helmet for CPR
John:
Your post brought back something I had forgotten that was an argument against the full face helmet back in the first years of it's use by it's detractors and folks lobbying against it's use. The issure of being able to give mouth to mouth without removing an injured drivers helmet was brought out as another reason to ban them. Along that same time frame there was a helmet that I believe was being made in Europe someplace that the whole lower "jaw" portion raised upwards and exposed the mouth, nose and lower jaw area, making that argument moot. I never saw one of this type helmet being used in boat racing, although some may have been. I never saw one period, except in ads in motercycle magazines. I seem to remember I inquired about one, but it could not be had in "APBA Orange" and the manufacturer did not authorize repainting with any other paint or color than they came in. Whether that was for the reason you mention, I do not know. The main thing that turned me off at the time was the price. They were about 800.00 at the time and that is more than some sell for now 35 years later, although I just got a Simpson catalogue in the mail the other day and sticker shock set in. They had several advertised in the 1400.00 range. A helmet of that type, life jacket, cut suit, and APBA dues for the first year now would be more than I paid for a C Hydro completely rigged with a 500CC Konig in 1973.
I guess I really am getting to be an "old fart".
Everyone loves a hanging - Ren and Stimpy! - Stimpy has no neck!
Humor aside the issues of helmets and neck loading when forces switch directions are real ones. You can get the same effects and forces put upon you with open faced as you will with closed face helmets. The advent of carbon fiber in helmet making, making them lighter and stronger yet with better to even custom form fitting for has changed the dynamics even more and added safety. There is less to catch on full face helmets today that are now generally ligher than open face helmets used to be as a result a lot see full face helmets completely safer than ever before and greater than any open face helmet made today. When it comes to physiology of different people, considering their neck structures should all be part of getting the right helmet as well as head fit and weight. A person with a very short neck is just as vulnerable to differing forces in accidents as a person with a longer neck. No neck loading factors can be the same and no two accidents are alike either. Like the previous poster is well pointing out, wite up and picture that the technology is helping make racing safer for the participant investing in the best possible safety technology.