Does anyone out there have any information on the gents who did run Yamahas in Mod U / F1?
How much success did they have?
I remember seeing in Propeller magazine they were getting better but that was a long time ago.
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Does anyone out there have any information on the gents who did run Yamahas in Mod U / F1?
How much success did they have?
I remember seeing in Propeller magazine they were getting better but that was a long time ago.
Doesn't anyone here have any info on the Yamaha powered boats?
those boats were owned and built by Wayne Worthy @ Htdro Tec Marine
I remember back in the day there was a driver by the name Ray Anderson who drove a Yamaha. I also believe J.R. Safford did as well. But I never saw them with much success.. They couldnt keep the motor together. I like to see them come back and try it again. We need the boat in F1
regarding that deal is all second hand but I heard that in a corner somewhere, in a warehouse are some parts that will make a Yamaha fly and I think I even remember hearing that there are a couple of complete engines hidden.
The F1 Yamaha's had a type of encapsulated header for exhaust and ran very well... But soon enough a driver was hurt & killed and after the family got through suing Yamaha, they decided it was not worth the risk and backed out of racing. So blame attorney's. they killed it and in the end will probably kill most of what we find fun and exciting before it's all said & done.
What I wouldn't give to get my hands on that hardware....
Wow, I didn't think yuou were paying attention back then. The first time I saw a Yamaha run was in Alburndale Florida 1986. A Mod-U set up driven by Harly Wilson. It was very fast, no one was even close at the finish. Since then I have seen them race a V-4 in the Formula 100 class. Mike Godfrey was very competitive with the Yamaha in the late 80's early 90's. I can even recall my mentor "The Great One" Jack Withrow driving a Yamaha powered Formula 100 boat at the Kankakee National one year. You are right that the Yamaha competed in the F-1 series(Ray Anderson, Nathen Worthy, JR Saffold) but none could ever seem to keep them together.
Terry - Yes I also remember that and it was cool as hell when it was running right. Had a VERY different sound to it than the Merc's. They had a OPC race in Grand Haven Michigan one time and I got a chance to see it run. Fast but broke down.Quote:
Mike Godfrey was very competitive with the Yamaha in the late 80's early 90's.
This is the start of a long story.... Here is Brain Daley in a Seebold, Yamaha powered that won Havasu. The picture is at Parker and my have Rick Hoffman at the wheel.
When Yamaha started building outboards, OMC for sure about crapped and Mercury wasn't sure. One reason OMC was scared ws my brother kept telling Charlie Strang how great Bunker's Yamaha motor cycle motors ran and that OMC should have oil injection, and all loopers...
When Yamaha came to California several strokes of luck came my way. One Yamaha hired Ham Hamburger from Mercury to run their sales department. My dad being Mercury Dealer Number ONE in California, had had dealings with Ham over the years. Another strong of luck, my niece's husband owned a big *** sail boat that he rented out to people for parties, Rachel Welsch rented it and so did Ham for Yamaha functions. My niece's husband, Doug Armfield, was close to Schock Boats in Newport Beach, and about this time Doug and Scott Schock got together to take on Yamaha, and DROP Evinrude. Schock Boats is and ws right on MILLION dollar water front properties in Newport. Having Schock SWITCH to Yamaha was quite a COO!
The third think that fell my way was Ted Zahorski switched from Yamaha Motorcycles to Yamaha Outboards.
These three "Events" all happened about the time MOD VP was getting 20-30 boats per race and the tunnels were struggling.
With a little help from me, Ted and I got Brian Daley to run MOD VP at Havasu. Seems I managed to borrow Kim Howards old Sleek (The past year's winner) and Ted built a Yamaha. Motor seems to run good, we used one of my first four blades and Brian finished in the top10.
After Havasu, Brain and Ted were dead set on running a tunnel at Parker and I was dead set against it and argued as such. I said, "Damn tunnels are dangerous, stay with the 'Door Slammers' (Mod VP)....Ted and I were talking daily buy now, as Yamaha was having trouble with their V-6's throwing rods. Ted was now head of warrantee and he started giving me all the warranted power heads. I was getting about 20 a week and my dad was taking them to scrap metal, but he'd keep the good parts of these short blocks.
Dino Kotsonis and I had become friends when he moved here from Michigan and he had wanted to run Parker in a tunnel and I'd told him he'd get killed but he bought Dick Sherrer's number two boat and went to Parker. He ran at Parker for awhile then blew over.
Dino managed to break his leg and wreck the Seebold pretty well.
So, I tell Ted Dino will sell the broke Seebold for cheap. So, Ted, Dino, Brain and I meet. Brain has a little sign business, two small kids and a young and beautiful wife....(I'm really off tunnel because of the danger). I say, "You guys make a deal.." Dino takes nothing down and $300 a month for six months...$1,800 for a busted Seebold ain't bad...
Brain and Ted fix the Seebold, and use the MOD VP gearcase on a welded together mid section, Marine Tex intake manifold......to make horizontal reeds, and they are ready for Parker...I suggest they use Rick Hoffman as a co-driver and I build them a 15 X 34 three blade for this tunnel....
They won Parker OVERALL in 1987??? 1986???? The Seebold is the boat in the picture! Please note how high the powerhead is, because they had a "FISHING" gearcase on this boat.... Rick Hoffman had never driven anything but a Mod C before the Enduro.....
Much interest in this story!!! That's OK, I'll probably keep telling it anyway!
Yes, please do!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Hill
Please....continue......
I am amazed about how open you always have been concerning engine manufacturers. I felt like I became a Communist the one year that I ran OMC's.......... The thought of racing a "rice burner" would take me right back to Pearl Harbor I imagine.
Although I do love Japanese food and one of my best friends is a sushi chef.
But I digress...... :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Hill
Hell yes! Spill it!
Rick Hoffman had driven at least one Mod U Seebold before that. His Dad, Ken Hoffman, owned one and "Risk" was the co-driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
I think because I grew up with my dad not really LOVING any outboard motor, just loving outboard motors, caused me to think of all outboards as RACE motors.
My dad's motor was an Evinrude, my brother's was a Johnson and mine was a Mercury. My dad's closest friends were Pep Hubbell of Hubbell Motors and Elgin Gates, the Mercury distributor.
My dad met Edgar and Charlie when they first went to work for Mercury when my father inspected the Winnebagoland Marathon. Edgar and Charlie respected my dad and my dad's respect was mutual.
When Gary Garbrecht ran Mercury Racing, it never stopped me from buying Mercury props. Dick Snider and Bobby Hetzel were good friends. In fact, we still talk on the phone. I talked to Bobby about two weeks ago.
My feeling have always been cose to the surface, when I'm happy people know it, when I'm not people know it too! I've never been afraid to ask questions. I've never held grudges, I let things go, except Jimbo winning Parker in the Black and White Scotti..
Gary Garbrecht tried to hire me and Jimbo. I wanted to stay in teaching and stay in California, Jimbo needed a job. My dad got Jack Leek to talk to Charlie. My dad is why Jimbo worked for OMC.
On with the Yamaha Story:
Fyremanbill is right, Rick Hoffman drove with his dad, Kenny, in Kenny's MOD U Seebold....And Rick's nickname was "RISK HOFFMAN" as he was a risk to his equipment and himself in the early days. Kenny Hoffman still holds the SJ Kilo record, with a Seebold, 150 XS Mercury and Ted March's (out Ted March) 32 cleaper that I made for my MOD VP...109 MPH something...
Yamaha got a little "PUMPED" after Brain won Parker and decide to build a Speedmaster and mid section. With the help of Ted Zahorski, Yamaha build 6-10 gearcases that looked a lot like Speedmaster Number 4's.
About this time, Gary Garbrecht was "nosing" aroung Yamaha and at the Miami or New York Boat Show, I forget which, Ham Hamburger was overheard, by Charlie Strang, speaking to Gary about a job.
Now, about this same time I had sent an outline to Charlie Strang suggesting an OMC Racing Division to OUT DO Mercury's High Performance Division. Jack Leek and I spoke several times on the phone about this as he wasn't sure I wasn't trying to get his job. I explained that I wanted to run HIGH PERFORMANCE SALES, not make HIGH PEFORMANCE engines.
Rumors had it, that Charlie really didn't want Gary working for Yamaha and getting Yamaha into racing. So, as soon as Ham and Gary quit talking, Charlie offered Gary a job.
Gary followed my outline pretty well, he called the business Second Effort. Ham and Gary later admitted to me, seperately, that they had staged the conversation so that Charlie could over heard them, as Yamaha Outboards had no budget for a racing division.
http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...hoffman+family
Gary opened Second Effort and hired Rick Hoffman to drive for him and build boats.
Ted Zahorski and Brian Daley WERE TEAM F1 for Yamaha. Broc Glover was driving my MOD VP...The new Yamaha Speedmasters were working but NOT WELL.
Al Stoker question that the Yamaha had ever won Parker. So, I decide to contact Ted and get the REAL STORY...He was bowling today, but wrote a little, but what he wrote is great.
I assume Ted will continue the story!!!
Ted writes:
I did a 179, 174, and got tired and a 137 today.
Started writing about racing. It is going to be long. I don't remember how the 1985 Parker went as that was the big lower unit and old boat. It was the next year that Rick co-drove and ran out of gas when in 1st. Still got a 2nd.
Here is what I have so far:
Ron Hill and others above post have some of the facts correct and others slightly wrong. Here are the facts that I was involved in with Yamaha boat racing.
I had been involved in many types of racing all my adult life. First was Stock Outboard boat racing with a C & D Hydro and Runabout. Then I got involved in motorcycle road racing (like Daytona) and moved to car racing (SSCA). I got out of racing when I became real busy helping Yamaha start the Outboard product line in 1983. A few Yamaha V6s were entered into that years Lake Havasu and Parker races as Special Events because at that time APBA only allowed US manufactures in the OPC category. I was the Yamaha Outboard Technical Coordinator and liked racing, so went to the APBA National Meeting that year to request the rules be changed to allow Yamaha to race in OPC. I received a very cold reception, but eventually, with the help of Duke Waldrup and others, the rules were changed.
For the 1984 Havasu classic Ham Hamburger asked me to attend the race to help anyone using a Yamaha outboard. There I met Brian Daley. He was the sign painter for the trucking company Yamaha was using at the time (Wheels Unlimited). Brian had a motor that had been dropped and slightly damaged by Wheels Unlimited on a (I think) SleekCraft. I noticed Brian was a real nice guy and a great driver, so a good guy to work with. He had a real problem in the race as the bottom of his boat started coming apart, but I think he was still the top finishing Yamaha. Ron was wrong that I built the motor as I didn’t even know Brian before the first day’s race. The motor was fully stock as built by Yamaha.
After Havasu, Brian asked if I would help him. Originally I said no as I didn’t want to commit the time needed for a proper effort. But then he challenged me by attempting to cut down a Yamaha tower housing to use on his old Seebold. He was trying to cut down and weld the heavy swivel bracket casting. I convinced him to use an old Mercury clamp and swivel bracket with the shortened Yamaha tower housing and large stock gear case (the first YAMAMERC was born).
Is there a current production engine that yamaha produces that would work in F-1 ? I see Its listed in the rule book...
Mike Beegle
How does this read? I didn't proof it yet.
Ron Hill and others above post have some of the facts correct and others slightly wrong. Here are the facts that I was involved with Yamaha boat racing.
I had been involved in many types of racing all my adult life. First was Stock Outboard boat racing with a C & D Hydro and Runabout. Then I got involved in motorcycle road racing (like Daytona) and moved to car racing (SSCA). I got out of racing when I became real busy helping Yamaha start the Outboard product line in 1983. A few Yamaha V6s were entered into that years Lake Havasu and Parker races as Special Events because at that time APBA only allowed US manufactures in the OPC category. I was the Yamaha Outboard Technical Coordinator and liked racing, so went to the APBA National Meeting that year to request the rules be changed to allow Yamaha to race in OPC. I received a very cold reception, but eventually, with the help of Duke Waldrup and others, the rules were changed.
For the 1984 Havasu classic Ham Hamburger asked me to attend the race to help anyone using a Yamaha outboard. There I meet Brian Daley. He was the sign painter for the trucking company Yamaha was using at the time (Wheels Unlimited). Brian had a motor that had been dropped and slightly by Wheels Unlimited on a (I think) SleekCraft. I noticed Brian was a real nice guy and a great driver, so a good guy to work with. He had a real problem in the race as the bottom of his boat started coming apart, but I think he was still the top finishing Yamaha. Ron was wrong that I built the motor as I didn’t even know Brian before the first day’s race. The motor was fully stock as built by Yamaha.
After Havasu, Brian asked if I would help him. Originally I said no as I didn’t want to commit the time needed for a proper effort. But then he challenged me by attempting to cut down a Yamaha tower housing to use on his old Seebold. He was trying to cut down and weld the heavy swivel bracket casting (not possible). I convinced him to use an old Mercury clamp and swivel bracket with the shortened Yamaha tower housing and large stock gear case (the first YAMAMERC was born). The motor was still stock, but had enough punch (with a big Hill prop) to accelerate real good. I don’t remember how Parker went. At a race in Puddingstone the nose cone on the gear case came off and Brian went for a swim. At a race in Walker, NV the transom of the old Seebold boat ripped apart under the weight and torque of the motor.
So a new boat was needed and Brian picked up a newer, but used, Seebold. We also put together a real YAMAMERC. We used a Mercury marathon twin pinion racing gear case and a Mercury mid section and clamp bracket. Then an adapter plate was made to connect the Yamaha power head to the Mercury housing. I rewired the Yamaha ignition and used a Mercury starter to turn the motor backward (a requirement of the Mercury gear case). At that time we were still using Yamaha carburetors, but they could not handle the vibration and G load in the turns. So I made them float less using a stand pipe in the float chamber and a second fuel pump to return the overflow fuel back to the tank. That worked great! Since I had no idea how much power the motor made, I put three “???” on the cowling.
For the 1985 Havasu Yamaha R&D had wanted to learn more about US Boat racing, but didn’t want to help me as they wanted to be closer to stock. A Yamaha dealer Skip Randal (from Phoenix) was racing ModVP so the R&D guys started helping them. But they didn’t do very well and we ran fairly well (but I don’t remember how we finished).
The 1986 Parker Enduro was very interesting. By then I was a member of the APBA Motor Tech Committee and at our annual engine inspection meeting Dick Snyder (Senior Mercury Engineer) and I were talking about the Parker race. I mentioned that we were using the Merc gear case, but our motor didn’t turn the revs and was concerned about what propeller we could use for the long 7 mile straight. Well Dick when in a back room and came out with a propeller for one of their 3.4L race motors. I thought he was just going to show it to me, but next he said for me to take it and try it at Parker!!
At the race OMC brought a few of their V8s F1 boats. These were extremely fast, but didn’t finish the first hour. During that first hour Brian made a quick pit stop to get me to lower the motor as the water was rougher than expected. At the end of the hour we switched drivers (Rick Hoffman took over) and put in 35 gallons of fuel. As Rick took off the guy fueling yelled at me that the fuel tank had been empty when he started adding fuel! I checked our big tank and discovered he was correct – the boat had taken a full 35 gallons! Since Brian had stopped during that hour I knew we couldn’t make a full hour on the fuel in the tank. So for the next hour we tried everything to tell Rick to pit early (radio, signs, etc.). By then we were in first place, but at ~58 min. into the run, Rick took the turn at the pits and started back down the river (14 mile lap). I knew he wouldn’t make it, but nothing we could do but wait. Finally the PA announced that the boat was at the far end of the course out of gas. Brian, myself, and other crew had the wildest drive down to get the boat and back to the pits – passing spectator cars on both the right and left (Fueling was only allowed in the pit area.) I think a cop was trying to pull us over, but gave up when we entered the pit area. We lost at least 30 minutes and ~15 places, but everything else worked great and we came all the way back up to finish second!
I found out later that Dick Snyder almost got fired for helping us. He understood that having Yamaha, OMC, and Mercury all racing would actually help expand racing and racing budgets. At one race later that year he asked if he could put a Mercury decal on the Mercury middle housing and take a picture. At that time I had no factory parts in the motor and it was actually a “garage built” motor, so I said GREAT GO AHEAD.
With the help of Skip Randal, I did modify our intake to use Mercury 14 petal reeds. That was done by completely filling in the Yamaha front crankcase half with bondo and re-machining it to except the Mercury reeds. I also added an aircraft Bendix mechanical fuel injection system. These changes allowed the motor to now turn up to 9,000 rpm, but mixture control was poor. That year was a great year as we won enough local races to become the ModU high point National Champion. We did start getting some help from Yamaha R&D. But the experimental parts hurt more than helped. There were special one ring forged pistons and connecting rods to help high rpms. I tried using these for the 1986 Havasu race, but failed every motor in testing. So for the race I put on “Old Reliable”. A motor that we had used at many races that year. It ran great during the first day of the race until 5 minutes to go in the 2 hr. each day race. When Brian backed off for a turn the engine blew as the connecting rod bolts broke (high rpm with no throttle has the highest load on the rod bolts).
Having used up all my new parts, that night I disassembled all the failed powerheads in my hotel room and selected the best parts to assemble a motor for the second day of the race. Well it ran great and we won the 1986 Havasu Classic! First non-US engine manufacture to win a major boat race. (But it was a YamaMerc with some home made parts.) (The very next race that motor failed.)
Now the Yamaha R&D guys wanted to help me more. They developed a gear case and mid-section. This gear case had two problems. First not enough water was getting thru to cool the power head. Since I didn’t have any budget, I didn’t have a data recorder and didn’t fully understand the overheating problem until I failed a few motors. The second problem was the gears couldn’t handle the power my motor developed and failed after only a few minutes of running. Part of the problem was that their gear case was the same size of the smaller Mercury gear case. But the Mercury motor ran at higher rpms and had less torque than the Yamaha and torque is gear load. The Yamaha had so much torque that twice the heavier Mercury marathon unit housing cracked at the pinion bearing.
For the 1987 Havasu race we wanted to repeat the win to show it wasn’t a fluke the year before. But a tragedy happened testing for the race when a friend blew over backwards and was killed. He was using one of Brian’s older Yamamerc units with nothing from the Yamaha R&D group. But a year later the family decided to sue Yamaha. But that is not why Yamaha quit racing as posted earlier. Most of Yamaha Marine management felt that boat racing did not help sell outboard motors. Yamaha knows better than most what it cost to race and win. They spend millions of dollars racing. In fact they were sponsoring water skiing competition, but when surveys found that few water skiers purchase outboards they back out. Yamaha boat raced only because certain people (Ham, me, a guy in R&D, etc.) liked it. Also the smog emission requirements were entering the outboard industry and the engineering money was needed there.
Also at the 1987 Havasu race Brian had a bad start and about to pass into first place he rolled the boat. Shortly after that I quit working with Brian mainly because of all the work and wanting to be with my family more.
I can tell you more about various races and problems, but I have said enough already. All the above was before Wayne Worthy, Ray Anderson, Dean Pink, and others did much with a Yamaha. I did here a rumor inside Yamaha that they did develop a special 3.0L V6 that developed in excess of 500 to 1,000 HP. But they didn’t have a gear case for it and didn’t think the current boats could handle that much power.
Ted Zahorski
hello there
i know Yamaha made a f1 motor back in the start of the 90,it was a 2,6 whit a fronthaft whit 6 dual throttel and 12 inj.exhaurst side was whit cast in back plate.a big tuner 2x58,we took a powerhead apart to se how it was made,it had offset heads(hydrotec made copy)and 61y rods.why i did se this was at that time some famile was woking at Yamaha denmark,there was 2 complet motors ready to run and some complet power heads also.
the papers on the motors was telling that it was makeing 450hp a 8200rpm
best regards
soren