Evinrude V4 90HP help me understand this crazy problem please!

My dad and gradfather bought this Glasstream new in 89. This month it acted up on his first day of fishing vacation and he had enough. Went out and bought a new boat and gave the old one to me.

Engine is a 1989 Evinrude v4 90hp "E90TLCEM"


Says he was running across the water pretty good and it just lost power. Will crank and idle and he limped it back to the dock.

Checking the timing at idle the light is showing me what would be between 40 and 50 degrees BTDC. Advancing the timing lever by hand does produce a change in timing (further advancing the reading)

Timing spec is: Full advance @ 5k rpm: 28 BTDC
Idle: 4 BTDC

Compression:116-118 on all cylinders
Nice blue spark from all coils

Timing base? Power pack? Stator? He says there was no prop strike or FOD that he is aware of so I do not think this a sheared woodruff key. The engine has to try very hard to crank over and this tells me that the timing reading is most likely correct as timing that high should make life hard for the starter.


I have searched every arrangement of words that I know how and I can not seem to find anyone with a similar problem. I would really like to get this thing back on the water. My grandfather's health is dwindling fast and I would love to take him out on the lake one more time.

Thank you in advance guys.

Anyone?

Surely there is someone who has experienced timing be way out of whack? I can't find anything like this on the internet. Any advice at all is appreciated. Thanks

I have verified that the crank to flywheel relationship has not changed. Woodruff key is not sheared. TDC marking on the Flywheel is in fact TDC on cylinder number 1.

Also, timing has NEVER been adjusted. My dad is not a mechanic and he bought this boat new. Nothing has been adjusted or tinkered with. It ran fine for 30 years and then one day, it wont run well and timing is 40 degrees at idle.

You'll likely get WAY better interaction with your fishing motor over on a site such as www.bassboatcentral.com or on iboats.net mechanics forum...

In any case, are you sure you are picking up timing from the #1 cylinder? Nothing electronic can advance the timing like that and I don't think your engine has the "Quick Start" feature that bumps up idle speed until it's warmed up. Try marking TDC of each cylinder on the flywheel and check that all four cylinders are approximately 90 degrees apart. You can use a pencil or pen in the sparkplug hole and rock the flywheel by hand to make a pretty accurate mark on the flywheel with a Sharpie marker. Write #1, #2, #3, and #4 by the respective marks so you can see them with the timing light and report back.

You can get really good information over the phone by contacting the Technical Support team at www.CDIElectronics.com about your ignition system as well.

Tom

so it still starts and idles?

maybe sensor magnet problem

Try finding TDC and then checking timing on another cylinder, You may have a crossfiring power pack. If the motor is at 40 + degrees (vs 28 max advance at WOT) It would be impossible to start!

I have verified TDC. Removed flywheel last night. Replaced the timer base and the power pack. No change.

Are you sure it would be impossible to start at 40 degrees? I’m starting to wonder if my timing light is bad. All of the sudden the key will not shut the boat down. Have to pull every plug wire.

It starts and idles very easily.

TDC for cylinder 1/ flywheel verified.

Key no longer shuts engine down.

Good hot spark jumps a gap at all 4 plugs.

I think I may go dunk this thing in the water. I’m so confused. Been working on engines almost 20 years. Never seen anything like this. I truly appreciate you guys taking time to comment.

I will most definitely remember to update this thread once the problem is resolved.

25XS. I will verify every cylinder with a flywheel mark. Just noticed your post. Thank you!

Turns out CDI electronics is right beside my office here in Huntsville. I will pay them a visit on Monday.

We have verified the timing with two lights now. It is definitely running north of 36 degrees (last mark on the flywheel)

You can tell the starter is struggling to work against the timing but it fires up quickly and runs at a fast idle. Sounds like a very advanced timing like any other engine I’ve heard with high timing. Definitely louder. Sounds like it wants to run wide open if that makes sense.

I’m out of ideas. I’ve checked everything the local mechanics said to check, even replaced parts just to be sure.

Are you sure that the sensor timing ring in the fly wheel hasn't come loose and moved?

Skip Baker, ding ding ding. I had decided to pull that flywheel one more time and that is what I found. I pulled the magnet off with ease.

Ok, so problem found and you now just need a cheap, used flywheel... You'll want to accurately verify TDC now on #1 with a dial indicator and set the timing pointer to exactly zero degrees with the new flywheel.

I'm carefully going thru a 1983 Evinrude 90hp right now and replacing ALL oil recirculation lines, and all fuel & primer lines in addition to carb rebuild. Hoping that a decarbon session after starting it up will bring the slightly erratic compression readings back closer together.

Although I "Bleed Black" for Mercury products, I really gotta hand it to OMC for the perfectly clear, spoon fed service manuals they produced! Perfectly written, step by step procedures and photos of assembled powerheads to clarify wire and hose routing. Recommend the factory manuals for anyone taking the cowling off an older OMC product.

Tom

Thanks Tom. I gotta pick up a manual myself. I’ve got a used flywheel on the way

I like a Mercury myself and we are eyeballing a few Hydrostream/2.5 boats. This old boat kind of happened unexpectedly, but I’m pumped to have it and keep it on the water.

That loose sensor magnet sure dates me - never worked on a V4 with that arrangement, all were cast into the flywheel!

Yea it actually looks like they are glued on with some sort of epoxy.

Bought one on ebay. Not happy with how rusty it is, but will this affect how it operates? My previous flywheel had zero rust. This boat has never seen salt.

http://i65.tinypic.com/287nfc9.jpg

This is the old flywheel with a slipped magnet.

http://i66.tinypic.com/biknf9.jpg

Well guys, I'm loaded up and headed to the river. The boat fired up and ran flawlessly on the hose yesterday. I verified timing and set the idle to ~1000RPM.

I've still got a problem with shutting the boat off. While putting the new power pack on I had to disconnect and reconnect the black/yellow wire and ever since then it will not shut down with the key.

When I turn the key off and go to the engine and unplug the black/yellow wire it goes dead. If I leave that wire unplugged, crank the engine, then plug the wire back up it will go dead. This does not seem to be a connection issue, yet any change in the connection shuts the boat down.

to stop the engine the black yellow must be grounded

I understand this. And grounding it out while the engine is running will shut it off. I can ground that wire out, crank the engine, and the key will not cut the engine off until that connection is "changed" ( if it is grounded I have to unground it. If it is ungrounded I have to ground it)


Does this make sense?

What is wrong with the original pack? Did the engine shut off with the key first time out this year with the original pack?

Skip Baker, it acts the same with both packs. I will swap it out again to make certain. Thank you for your help.

Will the engine shut off with the kill switch?

Negative, Skip.

Just a thought here, but on the back of the OMC key switch there are two terminals marked "M"... One is a vertical "stud" and the other five are horizontal tabs. All use the same tiny brass screw to anchor the wires.

There is a chance someone swapped the black/yellow wire and the solid black wire on the back of the key switch. Check that the black/yellow wire goes to the vertical stud connection and the solid black goes to ground. Sounds like you have a floating ground allowing the powerpak to keep the "Run" circuit powered.

Can you check continuity from key switch to power pack on the black wire with yellow stripe and also same test on the black wire? And check connections at the engine.

25XS, Skip Baker, thank you. I will perform tests as you guys described.

This boat ran phenomenal yesterday. It is just a tick below 50mph with what I would bet is the 30 year old beat up OE prop. I took the "whale tail" off the cav plate and it likes to hop at ~4k rpm cruise, but is easy to drive around.

Also, I noticed that the bilge pump and trim "up" button on the throttle did not work. Dad said this all worked fine before. Looks like I will be spending some time with a meter checking wires.

When you check out the wires for the kill circuit make sure you move the harness around near where it enters the lower motor cover. In case a wire is broken from the engine turning back and forth.

I will do that. Some 10 or 15 years ago some wires were fixed where a rat had gotten into them. I'm betting I have a butsplice somehwere that is corroded or loose.

Did you get your engine to stop?

There is a break somewhere that I can’t reach. Going to pull a new wire. Ran through 6 or so full tanks this weekend. Boat runs great.