Question about the red motoplat ignitions on Hot Rods

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06-18-2014
champ20B

Question about the red motoplat ignitions on Hot Rods

PLEASE DISREGARD, I FOUND WHAT I NEED, THIS THREAD IS CLOSED THANK YOU.....

I would like to know about those mysterious ignitions like the currently run 15ss American "B" class hotrods have. All I can find is that they are Motoplats. It is a red colored doughnut stator under a small flywheel like the wheels pro motors have (is it a 7oz. wheel?) .

What I was wondering is how this system is put together. Is it actually two stators stacked to make an alternate firing system with an internal rotary magnet(s)? Or is it one stator made as such?

If anyone would be kind enough to describe this system or post detailed pics, I sure would appreciate it. I would like to know what to look for in case I might need to put one together in the future as I have never seen the workings of these. I know they aren't made anymore.......THANKS!!!
06-18-2014
champ20B

I understand the motoplat lightweight flywheel and internal rotor ignitions are very sketchy for info. Few people ever serviced these. I might not ever get those part #s but I can also use the OMC (single magnet) flywheel. It only weighs over 2lbs. It is legal in the APBA tech manual for 25SS and B-stock. I would like to upgrade my old phelon ignition flywheel to make my HotRod legal for todays stock categories. The only thing is that there is no part# given on these either. I need that #. I can take it from there.

They do give a BRP OMC flywheel # for the sidewinder and it is approved for the hotrod, but I really don't want it. Its a bit heavy at over 4lbs and very expensive with its ignition. I prefer the lighter motoplat or aluminum (single magnet) OMC wheels used in the past. .........THANKS FOR ANY HELP.
06-19-2014
rumleyfips

I always thougth that the weigth of an internal rotor needed to be include to compare different flywheels.

Bendix pancake flywheels for KG Mercs were lighter than Phelon but the difference was much less if the magnet rotor was included. The fact that Phelon parts were more plentiful and they were easier to work on trumped the small weight penalty for me.
06-19-2014
champ20B

flywheels

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumleyfips

I always thougth that the weigth of an internal rotor needed to be include to compare different flywheels.

Bendix pancake flywheels for KG Mercs were lighter than Phelon but the difference was much less if the magnet rotor was included. The fact that Phelon parts were more plentiful and they were easier to work on trumped the small weight penalty for me.

I would like to keep what I have, but to race any stock category with a HotRod, it must be set up to Tom Moulder/ Ron Selawach specs. That means that the old Phelon might be rejected at inspection at first sight for all I know. It weighs 5.4lbs as well and that might hold me back in acceleration.

The Bendix set up you mentioned would go right on, but it would only be allowed for "B" mod, maybe. I have a Yamato 80 for that. I want a 25ss HotRod for stock. I need info on either the motoplat combo or the OMC wheel to get up to speed. They were used on 15 and 20 cid HRs.
06-20-2014
champ20B

O.K then.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by champ20B

I would like to keep what I have, but to race any stock category with a HotRod, it must be set up to Tom Moulder/ Ron Selawach specs. That means that the old Phelon might be rejected at inspection at first sight for all I know. It weighs 5.4lbs as well and that might hold me back in acceleration.

The Bendix set up you mentioned would go right on, but it would only be allowed for "B" mod, maybe. I have a Yamato 80 for that. I want a 25ss HotRod for stock. I need info on either the motoplat combo or the OMC wheel to get up to speed. They were used on 15 and 20 cid HRs.

Update.........., I figured it out myself. I know there are guys on here that raced these things during the time of use of these components though, because I have read quite a few conversations on these motors. I assume and respect maybe they just don't want to share anything thinking they might perhaps give something away? I WAS TOLD THAT BEFORE ABOUT ANOTHER RACE SET UP QUESTION (LOL). Anyway, Someone from a motorcycle/cart racing sight (not involving outboards at all) was able to tell me all about these components today anyway and I finally may have matched up the rest the hard way with last minute luck!

Lately, I sincerely think that this site should be renamed "Tunnel boats and Fishing Motor Tricks" featuring Rons Racing Cleavers for General Purpose Boats. Besides tunnel boats, v-bottoms and such, this is more for OMC, Japanese fishing brands, old mercs and loopers.. The last two are the most easy motor there is to work on and restore. Old mercs and loopers are great for beginners and new enthusiasts. I guess I outgrown Kiekhaefer and wondered into the unknown a bit with the Hot Rod as I got bored and wanted to build something up to speed. I just wouldn't be able to with the merc or omc 20-22 cid engines (my favorite categories).
Any how, No hard feelings, and Im still glad to help when I can with input here and there with other things I have worked on before and tried... THREAD DONE.....THANKS!!
06-21-2014
rumleyfips

Yes, I'm old, stupid, boring and know nothing beyond my racing days in the 60's and 70's. I I willingly put my hand up.

What I wanted to know was the effect of adding the weight of the lower inertia magnet rotor to the bigger diameter flywheel.

By my reading of the mod rules flywheels may be interchanged between classes, making a Bendix flywheel legal for Amod ( or 250mod for non-oldfarts).

I'm a bit surprised that you consider the Hot Rod as non- boring compared to OMC and Mercury of the same era. The Hot Rod is a 50's engine and even at the time was hardly innovative. It used deflector technology from the 20's, rotor valve technology from the 30's, gear foot technology from the 40's and housing technology from the 50's. Most of this stuff has been abandoned by modern engine designers. Reeds, bypass ports and internal tuned exhaust are all the norm.
06-22-2014
champ20B

Rumley, You are NOT any of those names. Honestly, you're a respectable member of this forum. I might have let my frustrations show a little, but it was legitimate. I found info I needed to build my ignition on my own luckily, though I have asked this question a few times over the last couple years on this and hydroracer and either got no responses or nothing that answered my questions. How about guys answering (cant tell ya) or (nobody that spent years on this is gonna give you their secrets, you just need to buy one from them if they will sell you one)..I don't mind a history detail at all, but other than that, If one has no answer, then please don't answer. I check my post and think, "Awesome!! maybe someone has something finally", and all I get is ( I don't know why you want to do this, maybe you need to try another forum) or some other off the wall comment I have got before on similar threads after I took time to explain my intent. I just feel that some of those same guys that might know the answer are just brushing my inquiry off. That is wasting my time, and as a legitimate prospective question concerning racing, it is a serious question that should be answered if so with courtesy.

Now, the later parts I asked about are still a standard presently on these motors. The Hotrods are still HOT!!! Like it or not, if you want a better chance to win, this is the engine you need for A-mod, B-stock, 25ss.... They are also great in B-mod. They are not the best engines as far as durability goes never the less. But they are faster and have power potential that 20cid mercs and OMC just don't have in stock form. These engines were continued on and hopped up with lighter wheels, better ignitions, and bigger carburators. I can't help that fact.....that's just the way it is. I have done the antique motor thing and old mercs, but I'm not getting any younger and if I want to race, I cant play around. It costs too much money. I need to build something that is still winning now, and I need to do it myself to be solid in this. Why are Hotrods so successful? They just are...if it was anything else, I would be going that way. I aint no Fan Boy of any particular brand.
Now, I'm not going B-mod on this...I have a Yamato 80 for that because it is the record holder in this class. If it was an Elgin that set records, I'd have that instead. When I choose an engine, I want a fast brand of engine!!! Hotrod for 25SS and or A-mod and B-stock... The APBA states that the 20-hotrod would be the motor of choice for 25SS if produced again, Sidewinder is doing that now.

The old 6NHR was the top of the line for this model engine in the late 50s (superior to the 6MMHR). It is the platform that later productions are based from. You can take a 6NHR with either 15 or 20 cid pistons/cylinders and add on the later listed flywheels, solid state ignition, a Tillotson HR16 or Lectron 34mm carburetor, and (if you can find one) Moulder midsection and race stock class. The old mid can be used legally although I never seen it. Mine is reinforced and I have the thrust socket with good clamps. It also has relief holes exact to current specs drilled in so it's good enough for start. The Bendix cannot be used.... Yes, it fits right on, but what they mean by changing between classes is displacement only or classes a particular engine is allowed in. The wheel has to be one of the wheels that were sold on the HotRod and listed by the manufacturer. Nobody ever made a 15-20 cid hotrod with a bendix ignition and flywheel like the KG4H used. They could have, and it would have worked if they did, but they never did. The idea is to use the larger carb allowed, and a lighter wheel also re-distributing the weight closer inward to the crank, later used. This is your top end and acceleration improvements. As far as the lower goes, the original 6NHR is the choice still. It is full jeweled with stronger gears than the previous 6MMHR. The only change with the current sidewinder production is a split case. But the old 6NHR version is just as good and valuable to current championship racers today. I'm just sharing some tech here to enrich the forum. I have the flywheel combos chosen for my build now, with no thanks to any other boat racers disappointingly.....AGAIN, THIS IS CLOSED...THANKS.
06-22-2014
Bill Van Steenwyk

You really need to get over yourself some, and quit being so angry when folks, a lot of who frequent this forum who know much more than you, either do not have the time, RIGHT NOW, to answer your questions, or the inclination to do same, from seeing some of your posts/replies to other threads you have participated in. That is the best/short answer with the tirades you come out with when someone does not "jump to", to answer your post. Most of the folks that might know something about the ignition you ask about are of the age bracket that they may not look at the computer every 3-4 hours which seems to be the time frame you ask again the same question previously asked. Some folks, no matter their age group, might not look at the site but every 3-4 days if that often.

NO ONE likes being chastised when being asked to share information they may or may not have, but I can guarantee you that the more posts you put up like some of the recent ones, with the tone they have, the longer you will wait for answers. You might remember you are asking someone to do YOU a favor, not the other way around.

A possible reason you did not get an answer in the time frame you wanted, was because the MOTOPLAT ignition has been NLA for at least about 10-15 years (or longer) now. If they are still being furnished on motors you have purchased it is because someone had one to put on, or it was used as original equipment on the Hot Rods for some years. They were used as original equipment on the Yamato brand of PRO type racing engines also, but no more as long as 15 years or so as they have been superseded by ignitions that are 1. no longer available with parts and service, 2. the newer ignitions have retard or advance features built in or can be programmed to do same.

The simplest explanation as to why you can not get answers to your question regards the ignition is it is no longer made and is obsolete. If it was a desirable ignition in this time frame, you would see it still used and available. When something has not been made or sold/distributed in at least 10-15 years as is the case with the MOTOPLAT, that should tell you something. Same problem exists with the older Mercs and even some models of the Yamato 80's and 102's regards parts for same and far better for the application.

Relax a little and enjoy the forum. The great majority here are helpful, knowledgeable people who are glad to help, but with a question about a product that is this out of date, and only was used on a limited number of engines sold for racing, you may find patience IS a virtue with this question.
06-23-2014
champ20B

Oh really??? Really!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Van Steenwyk

You really need to get over yourself some, and quit being so angry when folks, a lot of who frequent this forum who know much more than you, either do not have the time, RIGHT NOW, to answer your questions, or the inclination to do same, from seeing some of your posts/replies to other threads you have participated in. That is the best/short answer with the tirades you come out with when someone does not "jump to", to answer your post. Most of the folks that might know something about the ignition you ask about are of the age bracket that they may not look at the computer every 3-4 hours which seems to be the time frame you ask again the same question previously asked. Some folks, no matter their age group, might not look at the site but every 3-4 days if that often.

NO ONE likes being chastised when being asked to share information they may or may not have, but I can guarantee you that the more posts you put up like some of the recent ones, with the tone they have, the longer you will wait for answers. You might remember you are asking someone to do YOU a favor, not the other way around.

A possible reason you did not get an answer in the time frame you wanted, was because the MOTOPLAT ignition has been NLA for at least about 10-15 years (or longer) now. If they are still being furnished on motors you have purchased it is because someone had one to put on, or it was used as original equipment on the Hot Rods for some years. They were used as original equipment on the Yamato brand of PRO type racing engines also, but no more as long as 15 years or so as they have been superseded by ignitions that are 1. no longer available with parts and service, 2. the newer ignitions have retard or advance features built in or can be programmed to do same.

The simplest explanation as to why you can not get answers to your question regards the ignition is it is no longer made and is obsolete. If it was a desirable ignition in this time frame, you would see it still used and available. When something has not been made or sold/distributed in at least 10-15 years as is the case with the MOTOPLAT, that should tell you something. Same problem exists with the older Mercs and even some models of the Yamato 80's and 102's regards parts for same and far better for the application.

Relax a little and enjoy the forum. The great majority here are helpful, knowledgeable people who are glad to help, but with a question about a product that is this out of date, and only was used on a limited number of engines sold for racing, you may find patience IS a virtue with this question.

HEY, DR.PHIL...... STAY OFF MY THREAD. DONT TELL ME TO RELAX. I DID NOT ASK PERSONAL ADVICE FROM YOU OR ANYBODY, AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT I KNOW, OR DONT KNOW. I DONT NEED YOUR ADVICE ANYMORE AS I SAID. WHAT DO YOU KNOW AS TO PART#S OR SUCH? NOTHING APPEARANTLY. PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE A LEGEND IN YOUR OWN MIND. AND YOU ARE A SNOB..... AND AS FAR AS OBSOLETE GOES, SO ARE MOST OF WHATS RUN IN STOCK AND MOD TODAY. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN MAN?? AND FURTHERMORE, THE MOTOPLATS ARE STILL SERVICED (REBUILT) BY CYCLE OUTFITS. THE WHEELS ARE ALSO AVAILABLE AND USED ON BIKES. THE OMC STUFF IS STILL AVAILABLE OVER THE COUNTER. I JUST ORDERED MINE. YOU REALLY NEED TO DO RESEARCH BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR TRAP ABOUT SOMETHING YOU PROBABLY NEVER WORKED ON YOURSELF.. THIS ISN'T ALKY (PRO) CLASS JERRY RIGGING HERE! THIS IS RACING BY THE RULES. SOMETHING YOU PROBABLY WOULD BE LOST AT NOW DAYS...

I THINK YOUR THE ONE THAT GAVE ME A SMART @ss REPLY BEFORE WHEN I ASKED ABOUT CHINE FINS.MAYBE BECAUSE I CRITISIZED THE TECH INFO OR LACK OF IN THE APBA ABOUT FINS? THATS MY BUSINESS, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT??? YOU DONT TELL ME HOW TO THINK OR WHAT I SAY.. FRANKLY, THIS WILL BE MY LAST COMMENT. IVE BEEN WASTING TIME ON THIS FORUM WITH YOU TOO MUCH ALREADY. YOU GO HAVE FUN WITH (ENJOY) IT.....O.K?? IF YOU ARE OFFENDED, RELAX AND GO B.S ELSWHERE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. I HAVE SEEN YOUR REPLIES ON OTHER POSTS AND THEY SELDOM RENDER ANY ANSWERS. YOU NEED TO GET OFF THIS TECHNICAL FORUM AND GO JOIN A SOCIAL LOUNGE. POEPOLE DONT LIKE TO TAKE THEIR TIME TO POST A QUESTION ONLY TO BE HOODWINKED WITH USELESS RESPONSES!! THAT IS WORSE THAN TROLLING. IN FACT, YOUR ACTING LIKE ONE....I ALREADY SAID "I KNOW THEY DONT MAKE THESE ANY MORE"....CAN YOU READ? OR DO YOU EVEN REALLY BOTHER?

IF YOU DONT LIKE MY COMMENTS, THEN KEEP YOUR CRAP TO YOURSELF AND GO TALK TO YOUR BUDDIES. THEY MIGHT BE MAKING A 45 HORSE PERKINS OUTBOARD WITH CROME PIPES GO 90 MPH ON A PONTOON OR SOMETHING!!!