Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0

View Poll Results: 850CCMH / 850CCMR Drivers only - Rule Change Poll

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Support Rule to eliminate mods to front covers.

    3 23.08%
  • Not Support Rule Change to mods on front covers

    3 23.08%
  • Keep Rules the same

    6 46.15%
  • Bring back rules from 5 -10 years ago.

    1 7.69%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 47

Thread: 850CCMH / 850CCMR Drivers Only -Vote

  1. #21
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Annapolis, MD USA
    Posts
    1,795
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Tim, what do those pictures have to do with 850? It doesn't look like a legal 850 to me. Is that the motor you refer to Dave attacking?

    Separately, you have clearly not followed the original request of the poll of registered 850 drivers ... since you have not raced in years.



    On the other hand, it is clear that even among the current 850 drivers, the overwhelming consensus is to allow the welded fronts to continue ... in that vein, Dave might as well close the poll and delete this contentious thread
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  2. #22
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Annapolis, MD USA
    Posts
    1,795
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    As far as following the "process" I typed up a proposal a couple years back, gave copies to the chairman and my commissioner ... and it was tabled without consideration ... politics rule over democracy. Just like in the military its who you know and who you blow
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  3. #23
    modifiedoutboard OUTBOARDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    209
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Via Email

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    BRF is not a forum for personal attacks. Please stay on topic and communicate personal comments via PM.


    SAM
    email or pm the specifics so I dont have to go over your head like last time. Have you forgotten?

    Anthony
    Last edited by OUTBOARDER; 05-01-2010 at 06:55 PM. Reason: INTEGRITY

  4. #24
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Annapolis, MD USA
    Posts
    1,795
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I have no idea what you are talking about

    Stay on topic and use email or PM for personal off topic stuff.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  5. #25
    modifiedoutboard OUTBOARDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    209
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Spam

    What do you mean PM.
    Do not ever challange you on BRF forums?

  6. #26
    Team Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    559
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I have followed this thread with much interest the past couple of weeks for a variety of reasons. Prime among them is an interest and admiration for folks who can build engines, boats, or other components used in this sport, WITHIN THE RULES, but by being very creative within those same rules, and by doing so, can gain an advantage. After all, that is what racing is all about.

    WITHOUT TAKING SIDES EITHER WAY IN THIS DISCUSSION, I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND HOW STRONG FEELINGS ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT CAN ARISE.

    That being said, it would seem ( and I know this well from past experience, as Sam pointed out) "it is not always who you know" when trying to amend or change the rule book, no matter what category is involved. It is a very politicized process, and the fewer participants, the more political it can get. As most know, boat racing right now is not highly populated with either drivers or owners, or both.

    As one who highly admires minds who can dream up ways to build an engine within the rules, to gain what folks like Smokey Yunick gained as an "unfair advantage" in Stock and Indy Car Racing some years ago, it is easy to see both sides of this discussion ( even leaving out some of the heated comments).I don't pretend to have a solution to the problem with this type engine modification, or any other problems that might exist in the Mod category, but it does not take much imagination to see that if cooler heads don't get together and find a reasonable solution, the situation can only get worse, not better, especially after reading the posts on this thread the last few days, and having had experience with devisive subjects myself off and on during the time I raced.

    I don't know Tim Kurz, other than seeing some of the pictures here on BRF of beautiful engines that he has been responsible for over the last few years, but even if he were the biggest con artist in the country (which I don't believe about him, or any of the other posters here either) it would be a shame to piss him off to the point that he would withdraw from the MOD Category. Craftsman like him only come by once in a great while, and that means no disrespect to any others on the other side of this discussion. There are always some that for one reason or another, can't or don't do their own motor work, and you need more like him and others, not less.

    Perhaps a cooling off period by all, and a little "mediation" might be good right now. There are not enough of you to let something like this fracture and split you further apart. Look at Boat Racing history over the last 60 years. Does anyone think there are more racers now than before, or that the sport is stronger?? And a lot of the reason for the lesser numbers now (among others) can be laid to these type disagreements that caused racers to quit, form other sanctioning organizations, etc., which have NEVER led to the groups being stronger in the end, or with more members.

    In these type disagreements someone always has to take the first step. It would probably be much better if that were done in a "not public" forum, as unfortunately some still paint the first one to make that type of move as being "weak" when in reality they are the strongest and are the best type of leaders.

    Good luck in solving this problem, among all the rest boat racing has these days.

  7. #27
    Team Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Horseshoe Bend, ID
    Posts
    657
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default FE/850 racer

    For Sam, Bill, and others;

    This is the engine David is complaining about. Images were posted on Fast Fred's thread and HR last fall, and on HR this week by Cheney. Rich Welch drove it to an easy win at Hillsdale, this after fighting to make it work at two prior outings: Little Jimmy Robb drove it at Dayton, Rich at Alexandria prior.

    The fact is I race through others, having built over 20 FE/850 powerheads for others in the past 5 years which have campained to lesser or greater success, proving there's more to racing than just engines. My 235# Ropp hydro serves as a testbed and is ready to race at any time. Though 10 years old now (and heavy), racers would find it very competitive indeed. So, am I an FE/850 racer? - you bet.

    As for the rule making; political though it may be, we must abide by the process. Without this function, the rules would change at the whim of the commission, or worse by a non-scientific poll of drivers. Proposals must be meaningful, well written, supported by statistics, and beneficial to the sport. Many times they take several submissions to get correct.

    My larger point is instead of arguing, spend time writing a decent proposal or building engines to meet the current rules. With that, I'm out to the shop to fire up the beast published yesterday (a 100 MPH+ laker), and port an 850 for a west coast customer. See you at the race course.

    Tim
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Tim Kurcz; 05-02-2010 at 04:24 AM. Reason: Grammar error

  8. #28
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Annapolis, MD USA
    Posts
    1,795
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Apparently there is a lot of misunderstanding about this thread and poll.

    IT IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE A RULE OR CIRCUMVENT THE RULE MAKING PROCESS VIA THIS THREAD.

    I have no idea how that could be interpreted from Dave's posts.

    It was a question to current 850 racers ... (who would be the the ones who make and change rules, not past racers, motor builders or other "interested parties"); that I know of, if you are not an active racer in a particular class, you are not eligible to vote on rule changes to that class.

    It should be obvious that if the current RACERS are not interested in changing the rules, there is no point in taking the time to write up a proposal that will has no chance of passing.

    Dave was just asking current RACERS to give him some guidance on whether to take the time, make contacts and do the pen pushing.

    Its clear from both polls that the majority would not vote to prohibit altering the fronts of OMC triples ... his question is answered.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  9. #29
    Administrator Aeroliner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles, Louisiana 70611
    Posts
    212
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default 850 Rules

    It seems like the rules are very clear for this class. Having built a Merc 44 for the class and seeing Tims engines I beleive they are well within the limits of the rules. The smaller OMC is allowed to use any carb the way I read the rule book.

    5. No additional reed ports or carburetors are permitted on a motor from the number specified by the
    manufacturer. No other/additional means shall be used to introduce an air/fuel mixture into the
    engine crankcase area from outside the motor. On the OMC 49.7 cu in block, any OMC one barrel
    carburetor with a venturi of 1.250 (+/- 0.15) and a bore of 1.500 (+/- 0.015) may be used. On the
    44.9 cu. in. OMC where any OMC outboard motor carburetor is permitted. No size or measurement
    specs apply to reeds or carburetors, however material may not be added to increase the size of the
    carburetor throat and reed ports. This specific rule does not apply to the Mercury 4 cyl/44 cu. in.
    and 6 cyl./60 cu. in. motors.
    6. On service engines that may use a design other than reed cage induction, the manufacturers
    specifications and tolerances shall be retained throughout the whole intake system from carburetor
    intake mouth to intake ports in the cylinder wall.
    7. No superchargers or turbochargers are allowed. This refers to mechanical devices used to increase
    the amount of air/fuel mixture being fed into the engine. This does not refer to scoop or length
    tuning of the carburetor intake.
    8. Mercury 650, 4 cyl 60/62 cu. in. motors may use any make, type or size carburetors, conventionally
    (front) mounted, 2 carburetors maximum, adapters may be added.
    9. All APBA Modified safety rules apply and on carburetors or fuel injectors having throttle slide valves.
    They shall be adjusted to fully close.
    10. Only single barrel carburetors are allowed, except 44.9 cu in OMC (45SS).
    MERCURY 6 CYLINDER 60 CU. IN. MOTORS - see spec sheet
    1. Fueling may only be accomplished through and via a maximum of 3 conventionally mounted, single
    barrel carburetors of any make or size.
    2. It is not permissible to have removable cylinder heads on this motor.
    MERCURY 4 CYLINDER 60/62 CU. IN. MOTORS – see spec sheet
    1. Fueling may only be accomplished through and via a maximum of 2 conventionally mounted, single
    barrel carburetors of any make or size.

    Alan

  10. #30
    modifiedoutboard OUTBOARDER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    209
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Its good

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroliner View Post
    It seems like the rules are very clear for this class. Having built a Merc 44 for the class and seeing Tims engines I beleive they are well within the limits of the rules. The smaller OMC is allowed to use any carb the way I read the rule book.

    5. No additional reed ports or carburetors are permitted on a motor from the number specified by the
    manufacturer. No other/additional means shall be used to introduce an air/fuel mixture into the
    engine crankcase area from outside the motor. On the OMC 49.7 cu in block, any OMC one barrel
    carburetor with a venturi of 1.250 (+/- 0.15) and a bore of 1.500 (+/- 0.015) may be used. On the
    44.9 cu. in. OMC where any OMC outboard motor carburetor is permitted. No size or measurement
    specs apply to reeds or carburetors, however material may not be added to increase the size of the
    carburetor throat and reed ports. This specific rule does not apply to the Mercury 4 cyl/44 cu. in.
    and 6 cyl./60 cu. in. motors.
    6. On service engines that may use a design other than reed cage induction, the manufacturers
    specifications and tolerances shall be retained throughout the whole intake system from carburetor
    intake mouth to intake ports in the cylinder wall.
    7. No superchargers or turbochargers are allowed. This refers to mechanical devices used to increase
    the amount of air/fuel mixture being fed into the engine. This does not refer to scoop or length
    tuning of the carburetor intake.
    8. Mercury 650, 4 cyl 60/62 cu. in. motors may use any make, type or size carburetors, conventionally
    (front) mounted, 2 carburetors maximum, adapters may be added.
    9. All APBA Modified safety rules apply and on carburetors or fuel injectors having throttle slide valves.
    They shall be adjusted to fully close.
    10. Only single barrel carburetors are allowed, except 44.9 cu in OMC (45SS).
    MERCURY 6 CYLINDER 60 CU. IN. MOTORS - see spec sheet
    1. Fueling may only be accomplished through and via a maximum of 3 conventionally mounted, single
    barrel carburetors of any make or size.
    2. It is not permissible to have removable cylinder heads on this motor.
    MERCURY 4 CYLINDER 60/62 CU. IN. MOTORS – see spec sheet
    1. Fueling may only be accomplished through and via a maximum of 2 conventionally mounted, single
    barrel carburetors of any make or size.

    Alan
    It is good just would group engine specific rules with their engine and general rules before. To make it clear which engine a rule applies to.

    thanks for the info, I have to get ready.

    Anthony

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. From a driver's perspective!
    By capnzee in forum Outboard Racing History
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-25-2006, 09:52 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •