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View Poll Results: 850CCMH / 850CCMR Drivers only - Rule Change Poll

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  • Support Rule to eliminate mods to front covers.

    3 23.08%
  • Not Support Rule Change to mods on front covers

    3 23.08%
  • Keep Rules the same

    6 46.15%
  • Bring back rules from 5 -10 years ago.

    1 7.69%
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Thread: 850CCMH / 850CCMR Drivers Only -Vote

  1. #41
    Administrator Aeroliner's Avatar
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    Default God this post is exciting!

    While looking through the shed I found a powerhead and Brinkman H leg already mounted. So what do you do? Well I'm a Merc guy but did sell both Mercury and OMC engines in my boatyard. Seems like I need to join the fun with an OMC. I beleive this old stinger will work fine and be available as a companiom to the TX444DK that we built last year and the new 6 cylinder thats nearing completion. Hopefull this powerhead is a legal starting point! Now we have to get smart with the mods and the exhaust. We hope to run the TX444DK at hillsdale in June.
    Alan
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  2. #42
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    Default You're almost 100% correct

    Quote Originally Posted by hydroplay View Post
    I get a chuckle out of Tim Kurz saying that absolutely everything he does is completely within the printed rules. I won't argue with that at all but I certainly do remember when he was making a big stink about Jerry Wienandt's 650 Merc. Kurz maintained that it wasn't legal despite the fact that it met every printed rule just like Kurz's projects do now. So now the shoe is on the other foot and he sings a different tune. Wienandt's 650 Merc won a number of Nationals and was pretty much the class of the field at the time. It was so good that Jerry even let Chuck Petersen run it one year for another championship, yet Kurz was adamant about trying to get it thrown out despite it meeting all the rules. Oh how times change!
    There's a big difference Sam: Parts for the OMC's I build were/are available for the general public to purchase in 1990. At that time, anyone could create a good FE from dealer parts (45SS or loop triple). The same was not possible with the 650XS. This I know as I apprenticed 1972-73 at the only full race inventory Mercury dealer in Michigan (Fairlane Boats and Motors), and still had decent connections. The mechanic I replaced (Jeff Ettinger) was a tunnel racer with a 650XS on loan from Kiekhaefer. He explained parts were only available to selected racers. There was no published parts list and isn't to this day. But I know where there's a very low time factory 650XS available.....

    Anyway, according to Jeff, Kiekhaefer only built 75 of these engine. So it didn't make the 250 rule and parts could not be purchased unless you were very well connected. As a Mercury man this inabilty to construct an XS was quite a disappointment. If you look at the rules (same today as then), it seemed too good to be true a 14 petal reed box engine was allowed to compete with the OMC's. So how did it get approved? To my knowledge, Gerry was the only racer that had not one, but two! And of course his workmanship was/is excellent. Hmmmm. Good connections.

    Well, I was just plain pissed that I couldn't have one myself. So you're right, just like Dave Mason, I complained. The difference is I sent a proposal to delete it with documentation to the commisson in the fall of 1992. Politics as it was, the proposal was quickly rejected. Knowing the 45SS Mod could not compete with any of these triples, I began construction of my first triple spring of 1993 at Bud's. It took all summer to build that engine which first ran at Coldwater September 1993. I was looking at 90 MPH going into the beach turn - incredible - just before I melted my first piston.

    Gerry told me he'd seen the "Century Mark" with his 650, but was happier propping it short for better punch to mid-90's. Naturally, I was eager to see the mark. After a rebore/piston in October 1993 and driving downwind with my nose on the windshield, I saw 101MPH in "The Pink" a 12' Ropp (have got great video). Though the speed later proved to be 96MPH after Keller calibration, this was simply incredible. All was forgotten about the 650XS, and things got progressively faster. I still have that first engine and it will still break 100 on a long wheel - still a great feeling.

    What did I learn from all this? It's easier and much more satisfying to take a Smokey Yunick look at rules and build more power than waste time with a frustrating political fight. Does that satisfy you?

    Tim

  3. #43
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Default

    I think you are confusing the X motors with the XS motors
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  4. #44
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    Default No pics

    Anthony,

    No, I don't post pics of my engines, never have, and never will. I am not a show off.

    Sorry if you take offense to that, it is what it is.

    Have a good season, and good luck in racing. My offer still stands, I can build you a boat light enough for you to run, but it will be expensive. Kind of like those Atralights.

  5. #45
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    Default Since it won't Die

    Tim,

    Thanks for the PM. It was very informative. While I appreciate your ideas, I completely disagree with you.

    All,
    There is a gray area in the rules that is being exploited. This needs addressed before this class becomes an expensive, only to be raced by people with a superior knowledge of engines, and the ability to work on them, or someone with deep pockets.

    Here is my suggestions to ALL 850CCMH / 850CCMR drivers that don't have deep pockets and the ability to build a exploited version of the rules engine. Sell your rigs now, because in time, the class is going to be so sparse that it will be just like DSH, hard to get enough boats at a local race. And who likes to watch three 850CCMH's run around in a parade ? Nobody.

    Judging from the Poll most of the people that don't race the class are in favor of this, I counted 4 or 5 in the poll in favor. Some from other regions, so good luck to you all.

    And if you really want to compete at a level that is fair, and there will be no exploiting of the rules, run your rig in NBRA, and leave the APBA 850CCM class to the ones who choose to take it down the path it is heading. I for one have no intention of supporting such a thing. I guess a few bad apples ruin the whole bunch.

  6. #46
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mason View Post
    in time, the class is going to be so sparse that it will be just like DSH, hard to get enough boats at a local race. And who likes to watch three 850CCMH's run around in a parade ? Nobody.
    Dave I agree with your thoughts that the class will die by its own hand, but I disagree with you about heats of 850 with just a few boats.

    My observation at the races is that there are 3 classes people run to the beach to watch ...

    J ... people love to watch the kids race. Its often like watching a minor league baseball game ... you get to see the stars of the future in their formative years. You may see an incident that makes a particular driver develop a particular habit in racing that continues for decades

    C ... because there is almost always a full heat every where, every time. If it were true of every class, the whole thing would be a bore

    850 ... even if the reality of high speed isn't there, the potential of it attracts people to watch ... even if there are only 3 boats

    It might be that you don't see this because you are on the water ... being watched.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  7. #47
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    Default Fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    Dave I agree with your thoughts that the class will die by its own hand, but I disagree with you about heats of 850 with just a few boats.

    My observation at the races is that there are 3 classes people run to the beach to watch ...

    J ... people love to watch the kids race. Its often like watching a minor league baseball game ... you get to see the stars of the future in their formative years. You may see an incident that makes a particular driver develop a particular habit in racing that continues for decades

    C ... because there is almost always a full heat every where, every time. If it were true of every class, the whole thing would be a bore

    850 ... even if the reality of high speed isn't there, the potential of it attracts people to watch ... even if there are only 3 boats

    It might be that you don't see this because you are on the water ... being watched.
    Enjoy the parade of 850's. I won't be flocking to watch a three boat race for it. Full fields is where the real racing is. I have watched plenty of 850CCMH races from the beach. I took a season off from it and concentrated on my runabout a couple years ago. I can honestly say, my observations were when the numbers were weak, people watched until the first turn....

    I think it is time to close this thread. To much of a pissing match going on now.

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