Is it cheating??

[MN1]

You could mention the rule in question to the inspector before the race and voice your concerns so it can be brought up at the drivers meeting. If the inspector is good, he will help to make sure everyone is playing by the same rules.
Mark N

[Mark75H]

Its not in my class or even my division (that I know of) pretty sure you can't file a protest unless you were in the same race ... it still makes me unhappy. It doesn't make any difference to you? It could be in your class ... you might have even raced against someone taking that unfair advantage.


My hours vary from week to week; in any particular month, I have no idea how much money I will make. If things turn around, I may offer to fund someone if they want to file a protest but feel like they can't afford it - even if means I can't afford the next race. At this point in the year ... I don't even know if I will be racing or watching next year anyway.


Something to think about if you are using that stuff that "beats the meter" ... its an automatic 2 year suspension if you are caught

[Mark75H]

You could mention the rule in question to the inspector before the race and voice your concerns so it can be brought up at the drivers meeting. If the inspector is good, he will help to make sure everyone is playing by the same rules.
Mark N

On a fuel test, I think someone has to pay. The way I read the rules, an inspector can send anyone's fuel out to be tested completely at his discretion, but then I think the club has to pay the lab costs.

I think the inspectors are already onto this ... I thought I saw some "extra" equipment at a race last summer.

[T2x]

Good discussion......

Two things come immediately to mind, one simple and the other far more complex.....

1. I attended a kids' go cart race a few years ago with supposedly identical box stock motors, A friend of mine and well known Offshore throttleman was just getting into the sport with his son. I noticed that the faster carts had a very different and more throaty sound then the rest of the pack. I wandered over to the pits of the 3 carts with the odd sound (2 from the same family)...and noticed that the exhaust manifold bolts had been loosened allowing the exhaust gases to by pass the pipe and escape out of the engine at the cylinder head. I returned to my buddy's pit and suggested he try it and see. His reply was interesting. "I will try it at home while testing to see if there really is some advantage, but I don't want to teach my son to cheat". His take on it was that if those bolts had come loose on their own..it would be legal...but if you did it intentionally...not so.

2. The bigger issue goes right to the heart of our sport. Many of our iconic drivers and engine builders made their reputations by "living on the edge" of the rules. Why in the world would you send your supposedly sealed "stock" motor to a "champion builder" if he didn't know how to get more power out of it than when it came from the factory? This usually is the same builder who won't discuss exactly what he did to your engine so as not to divulge his "secrets". If the purpose of a stock class is to level the playing field this clearly violates the "spirit and intent". How do you increase your winning percentage to God like levels without the thinnest prop, with the quickest profile, running off a gearcase that is set up optimally, using the lightest weight oils, at the perfect prop height, (all legal so far), with a powerhead that puts out at least as much (or more) power than your opposition? The answer is you look for every advantage you can find and sometimes that involves a shady bit here and there.

To me the bottom line is that if you are looking for only black and white in this world you might find it monotonously boring. It is all the colors in between that makes life interesting, frustrating, and not always fair. Racing is much like life in that respect.

Merry Christmas

T2x

[Mark75H]

All true, but again, this thread is not about "a shady bit" ... its about black and white and being on the other side of legal, the manifold bolt that isn't loose, but too long to ever tighten and hold the header pipe tight against the motor ... not a secret that everyone would do if they knew ... a secret that puts you on the shore for 2 years the first time and forever the second time.

[T2x]

All true, but again, this thread is not about "a shady bit" ... its about black and white and being on the other side of legal, the manifold bolt that isn't loose, but too long to ever tighten and hold the header pipe tight against the motor ... not a secret that everyone would do if they knew ... a secret that puts you on the shore for 2 years the first time and forever the second time.

Ahhh Sam....now you aren't talking about rules...but rather about ENFORCEMENT. This is a whole different animal. Over the years we have had every level of adherence to the rules from Edgar Rose (anal) to SBI Offshore (non existent). Because of the politics and economics in our sport I beleve that we need uniform enforcement across the spectrum, but that would require an intense cultural and political shift in our sport IMHO. There have always been allegiances, ignorance and weakness in many pits throughout the APBA, UIM, and other sanctioning bodies. Even Nascar only seems to step up when the pack stretches out too much and impedes the closeness of competition. Formula 1 allows one team to play with air ducts for a few races and then either bans the changes or opens them up to others. You only see people banned when the media publishes some piece of malfeasance or another before the powers that be can clamp a tight enough lid on it.

Bottom line...Can we have straight up rules enforcement....? Yes.

Are we willing to pay the price of losing boat racers? Probably not.

T2x

[Rusrog]

In our org we have some very clear rules as far as intentional or gross infractions(not necessarily the same thing and one can gross but not necessarily intentional). Without going into specifics we take each infraction on a case by case basis. For instance... If you fail at the scales and don't meet the minimum weight by a small margin, you were just pushing it too far and we disqualify you for the day. Over 30#'s is a gross infraction and you are out for the rest of the year. Now in the deal descried earlier about the exhaust pipe... that is where you have to have competent leadership in the org. My opinion would be this... If it is not specified in the rule book but the tech notices that this is a trend, it needs to be addressed at the driver meeting in no uncertain terms. Then an amendment made to the rule book for the following season. Let's face it, racers are always going to be digging for the last 100th.
We had a situation where the rule book states no metal removal from either case half, cylinder heads, pistons, rods or crankshaft. We then had guys working over the upper bearing cap to give them another degree of spark advance. So we made an announcement at the next drivers meeting that you CANNOT remove metal from the bearing cap either. At the next race, after all the racers in that class were busying with a bearing cap changing party, we discovered that some were grinding the PLASTIC arm of the stator to accomplish the same goal. Another entry into the rule book was made declaring that there was no MATERIAL REMOVAL from these surfaces. Someone will eventually come up with another way to do it but we will watch closely as will our engine tech and the chase will continue...