What 2 stroke oil yall runnin?

[Powerabout]

other then the fuel bowl it cant get a supply of gas at high speed as the supply from the pump with the gas is cut off
2 supply lines 2 pumps into a 2 in one out lever actuated valve

[Tim Kurcz]

other then the fuel bowl it cant get a supply of gas at high speed as the supply from the pump with the gas is cut off
2 supply lines 2 pumps into a 2 in one out lever actuated valve

If the gasoline is only for cleaning & rust preventative, why not use the carbs for methanol only and separate injector system for the gas/oil mix to be used for shutdown only?

[Powerabout]

sure, how long would it take to wash the caster oil out?

[Tim Kurcz]

sure, how long would it take to wash the caster oil out?

Your guess is as good as mine, but 4-5 minutes minutes one would think.

Wbat abour the same carb, same alcohol jets, burning methanol mixed with TCW3 for the last few minutes to wash out castor? Use a solenoid actuated shuttle valve downstream of two tanks, upstream of the pump. That way you wash and lube the fuel pump as well.

What application do you have in mind?

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

sure, how long would it take to wash the caster oil out?

Powerabout:

Unless you are concerned about internal "gumming up" of the engine from long spells of the engine sitting with a methanol/castor oil mix sitting on the internal parts, you have the "cart before the horse" so to speak with the problems that occur with an alcohol/castor mix left in the engine. Based on almost 40 years of running "alky" burners in the PRO category, the problem is not the castor oil (unless it is not the degummed variety and is left in the engine for long periods) but the alky, either ethanol or methanol. Both are corrosive, attract moisture that cause rust in a very short time, and are otherwise harmful to the internals of an engine, and with the ethanol mixes used today most everywhere in the US, harmful to a lot of other parts of the engine also.

What I (and many others) used to do after a weekend of racing with alky, was to have a small plastic can (usually one gallon) with a hose attached and a pump bulb of the type used with any gas tank sold with a common Merc, OMC., etc. After running with alky, we would substitute the hose from the small tank to where the larger tank would normally hook up to the engine, pump up the mix to the carbs, which in my case I always used 110 lead free av gas, mixed with the "Blendzoll" brand of de-gummed castor. Up to 8-10 years ago this was readily available anywhere race fuel/oil was sold. My normal mix for racing was 20-1 or 1 qt oil to 5 gal alky. I would mix the fuel in the small tank for after racing "flush" double on oil, in other words, 10-1 on the oil or 2 qts/five gal gas. The gas flushes any residual alcohol out of the engine by burning it, and the double de-gummed castor mix coats the engine internals very good with oil. Some used other mixes such as "Marvel Mystery Oil", or whatever they had good luck with, but you have to use gas to get rid of the alky. It does no good to replace alky with more alky, especially gas with 10% alky mix like is sold now for cars.

I always figured if the blendzoll worked while the engine was running at almost 14K that was good enough for me at the much lower RPM I ran it at on the bank. You could probably use some of the common "storage oil" that is sprayed in the air intake also if wanted or you felt it was needed. I do that with my 150EFI, but fill the fuel filter before putting on a new one with this gas/storage oil mix, plus the oil being injected by the oil pump.

As far as time to run it, depending on the size engine, I usually ran it about a minute or so, just enough to get the cyl head too warm for comfort with my hand on it, but not enough to damage the engine from lack of water, as our motors are force fed and do not have water pumps.

An engine with a water pump could be run as long as you would want of course, but I would think until the thermostats opened would be good enough. I had many engines sit over the winter with this treatment and never had any problems I could trace back to rust/corrosion/ or residual alcohol left in the engine. The reason I used 110 lead free AV gas was the tight CC's in the PRO engines with very high compression, that ordinary pump gas might detonate. . Probably not a problem with your engine? You would probably be OK with something like 91-93 octane pump gas.

Hope I have not misunderstood your post, but degummed castor will not hurt your engine if left in over the winter, but alcohol definitely will, and the gas will burn and wash that out.

Hope this is helpful.

Bill

[Tim Kurcz]

Bill,

Your response is the power of an active, experienced readership. Clearly, I have no alky experience, and was attempting to formulate a means of dual-fueling an engine. Your solution makes sense and will be used for the "666"if it ever runs alky. I forgot completely about the corrosive aspects of methanol, being overly foucsed on proper jetting for sustained operation. If it only takes minute's run to "wash" the alky (and castor) from an engine, then a second fuel tank whether manual or with shuttle valve is the solution.

The turbo is stock compression for greatest possible combusion chamber volume, but runs 100LL and 1 quart to 4 gal (16:1) because it detonates at 3PSI boost on 93UL. So Methanol is bled into the center of the mixture flow immediately upstream of the turbo for charge cooling (and enrichment) because you can't intercool a draw through system. Being that alky is on only during boost, it is automatically washed from the engine by the time shore is reached. Not sure of Graham's application, but will learn shortly to be sure.

Thanks for your excellent insight!

Tim

Side note: My NA engines use compresson in the 175 PSI range and require 100LL as well.

[Powerabout]

Thanks Bill
yes it sounds like its a problem that is simple to solve.
The other item with the castor oil is that is doesn't have the rust prevention that tcw has so I gues if you leave it inthe engine you get problems from the alcohol and the castor not helping.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Thanks Bill
yes it sounds like its a problem that is simple to solve.
The other item with the castor oil is that is doesn't have the rust prevention that tcw has so I gues if you leave it inthe engine you get problems from the alcohol and the castor not helping.

That's why I mentioned the trick about filling the fuel filter with your rust prevent (fogging oil) mixed with ethanol free gas. I learned that trick from "Mercguy" who frequents this site and also Hydroracer.


My alky motor of course was no problem to hook up the heavy mix tank as the carbs were right out in the open. On the other hand, my 150EFI on my Bass boat has the throttle shutters in the back of the plenum, and very hard to get to to spray the fogging oil, not even counting the circuitous route it must then follow to get to the injectors and into the engine. I have the same type system (gal jug) with my pre-mix in the jug, and then as I always change the fuel filter when I winterize, I run the engine with the fuel line that is normally on the boat tank, in the jug, after having filled the fuel filter with the gas/fogging oil mix. Have done this the last two winters and the engine really smokes when first started up on the hose the following spring, so I feel it has been properly coated with the mix. I run it on the hose till the thermostat opens and the pee stream starts and then remove the hose from the jug, and continue to run until the motor quits from lack of fuel. This assures no fuel is left in the system,( I always try to get ethanol free gas for the boat, but you never know these days) if by chance the fuel should have had ethanol in it. I also drain the tank in the boat over the winter. I have had no fuel related problems since using this method, but had nothing but problems even after using the fogging oil in the plenum, and putting plenty of Sta-Bil in the fuel for the winter.

I am firmly convinced that alcohol, of any kind, should not be used as am outboard motor fuel except if this type clean out procedure is used if the motor is to be stored and not run for a two month period or more. My boat was bought used and came from Arkansas where 10% gas/ethanol mix was not used while this boat was operated by the owner there. When I brought it home to Missouri after purchase, I had all kinds of fuel related problems the first year operating on the gasoline/ethanol mix. This included fuel lines, fuel pump check valves, crud that came loose from the fuel tank interior and then went thru the motor including problems with the VST tank. It took quite an amount of time, and money to solve all this so now I only purchase fuel at the lake, either at local service stations adjacent to the water that carry ethanol free gas, or at a marina dock which also has the ethanol free fuel.

Different application, pleasure engine to race engine, but alcohol based fuel and the problems it can cause if not taken care of properly is the common denominator. Usually this fuel mix does not cause the same type problems in an automobile, as a car fuel system these days is a closed system with no or very little chance of introducing moisture into the system, but a vented fuel system as in a boat is a whole different animal.

[Fastjeff57]

I hate to say it, but--other than a suspiciously torn fuel pump diaphragm years ago--I haven't had that much trouble with ethanol gas. However--and this is crucial--I NEVER, ever leave that crap sitting in my engines. I run the carbs dry, each and every time I'm through running the engine. No exceptions. (To make this easier, I mounted a fuel shut off valve in the gas line.)

For winter storage, I 'juice' the gas with Startron fuel treatment before running the carbs dry. I then pull the jet plugs (Mercarbs) and blow out the remaining gas with compressed air. Okay; so I'm a bit anal, but no problems to date.

Jeff

[Smokin' Joe]

Yamalube is fine. So are Mercury and Evinrude oil. I like Evinrude
XD100 and Red Line @ 25:1 at 6500+ RPM