Thread: Building A looper Beast

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    Team Member R Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerabout View Post
    Perhaps one of those onshaft inline eddy current load cells might be an easier way to measure the output.
    They used them on one European offshore sterndrive class to allow a power to weight specification to be met so I know they are small.
    Looked through out the internet and do not find any eddy current unit that will handle this kind of HP except large dyno units, let alone the one described in your post.

    After some research, it appears a 3 inch wide RPV Silent chain meets the HP requirements, although falls short of meeting the RPM range. That chain/sprocket set comes at a price of about $1400.00 dollars. We will see how the new double row chain holds up before that investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R Austin View Post
    Looked through out the internet and do not find any eddy current unit that will handle this kind of HP except large dyno units, let alone the one described in your post.

    After some research, it appears a 3 inch wide RPV Silent chain meets the HP requirements, although falls short of meeting the RPM range. That chain/sprocket set comes at a price of about $1400.00 dollars. We will see how the new double row chain holds up before that investment.
    OK I will try to find it. I do remember seeing an article about the supplier for Class 1 offshore a few years for the European racers. I was sure they said it was an eddy current device so it was the size of a ujoint.

    Shaft torque equipment is quite simple, 2 sensors on a shaft looking at each other and a known shaft material so when it twists it can be calculated on the fly.
    Something like this but the one I remember looked like 2 flanges together and bolted to the the Mercrusier tailstock shaft flanges.
    http://catalog.cooperinstruments.com...rque-load-cell

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    The land-and-sea dynamite dynamometer makes a great water brake, but they are pricey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerabout View Post
    OK I will try to find it. I do remember seeing an article about the supplier for Class 1 offshore a few years for the European racers. I was sure they said it was an eddy current device so it was the size of a ujoint.

    Shaft torque equipment is quite simple, 2 sensors on a shaft looking at each other and a known shaft material so when it twists it can be calculated on the fly.
    Something like this but the one I remember looked like 2 flanges together and bolted to the the Mercrusier tailstock shaft flanges.
    http://catalog.cooperinstruments.com...rque-load-cell


    After reviewing the Cooper instrument site I believe that the unit that you are looking at is just a rotational load cell. Nothing that can be part of a rotating shaft assembly. IE, instead a load cell on the end the arm reading the pumps desire to spin, it would be mounted on the rotational end point of the pump and the other flange mounted to a stationary structure. It reads a twisting, rotational, load. None of the offerings are capable of applying a resistance load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R Austin View Post
    After reviewing the Cooper instrument site I believe that the unit that you are looking at is just a rotational load cell. Nothing that can be part of a rotating shaft assembly. IE, instead a load cell on the end the arm reading the pumps desire to spin, it would be mounted on the rotational end point of the pump and the other flange mounted to a stationary structure. It reads a twisting, rotational, load. None of the offerings are capable of applying a resistance load.
    I wasnt looking for a friction brake just an easy way to measure torque on a spinning shaft.
    Perhaps using gears is a better way to get your 2:1 load?

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    Team Member R Austin's Avatar
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    I have noticed that some of the posts that I had trouble uploading pictures on have appeared again like they were copied over again. That is what really happened because at the time, as I tried, the system notified me that they had to clear a moderator. Not knowing what that meant I just approached the process differently and was successful. Now that Ron changed some of the rules, they popped up.

    Having said all that, "Is there anybody, Ron or anyone that can tell me how to backup or download the entire thread for safe keeping?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Austin View Post
    NOW AT 270 HP @ 8000 RPM WITH MORE AVALIABLE



    https://youtu.be/BxykOl63LVI






    Finally the problem has been definitely identified. In that attached video you can see and hear the surging beginning in the first minute and half. The small dial control at the bottom of the panel is the steam wheel that allows the fuel flow adjustments on the fly.
    You can see the hydraulic pressure and the foot pound readings on the panel. in the second of third minute you can see the adjustments being made to the fuel flow at 4000 the mixture was leaned 30% to clear and as the RPM was increased it was back a 0. Once reaching the 7000 RPM level the mixture had to be enriched up to 20% on the rich side to stop the surging.

    Into the second to third minute the load indicator and the EGT indicators auto shut down. Tried to restart the units. The EGT was OK, but the load cell restarted zero at the load that was being applied. You will notice that at idle that it was at near zero. At the very end of the video, you will notice that it read -67, which has to be added to and number seen in the last portion when it was reading in the 270 to 280 lbs, resulting reading 347.

    Had almost convinced myself that I had an exhaust block problem instead of fuel. I will admit that with out the dyno and without the fuel injection itself, I would not ever resolved the problem. Not saying that all is resolved. I have always believed that the carbs on the the TIIX were to large. You have to realize that this 5 minute run consumed 5 GALLONS of fuel. That's right 1 gallon per minute. I believe that as the throttles reached a near open position that the velocity of air flow was so low that the Bernoulli effect was near non existent and could not draw fuel, let alone move that volume thru the float valve.

    The numbers work out to 260 HP by foot pounds and 270 HP by hydraulic computations @ 8000 RPM. There is still more to be had.

    The way it acted at the 8000 mark with increase fuel, I believe that it is starting to have the exhaust blocking the increase in RPM and torque. First order will be to change to the GEN 3 Quincy megaphones.

    All of this will have to take place after I repair the dyno. Each time the engine was shut down we sprayed the chain and sprockets with oil. The last run of about 3 minutes stretched the chain so bad that it dropped off one side of the main sprocket. Went to restart and it made a half rev and locked up. Thinking the worst, that the engine had broken internally. Quick check of chain confirmed the next weak link.

    I was interested in racing, but after finding out what todays stuff is about I decided to just collect and run them sensibly for personal enjoyment...but what I learned about racing outboards and set up is that ultimately, one who gets the kind of HP and speed that racers claim is at any cost. I found out that prop slip just happens even at a high rate. But if speed is greatest even at such an extreme condition, that's the exception. I found out for my self that RPM don't matter. These guys run their engines far beyond what the manufacturers recommend, as long as it would finish the race day.....they really don't care when they are out there in the pack. MPH don't really matter either. Its about starting close at the clock, getting around through and out of a turn, and about quick lap time getting and staying ahead of the other guy, that's all. They have spares when they blow apart.
    Ultimately, with a modified reengineered version of an otherwise old design outboard configuration, if you want the kind of power beyond what you might be getting, then you might as well be willing to destroy it without a second thought. If you get your tolerances (bearings and seals, and pistons/rings etc..)to the point of just before compromise, as in making things real loosy-goosy and even putting a little pin hole from your water jacket just over your induction ports to boost compression and other things and maybe put some pieces of cork in the crankcase to increase pressure till it gets ground up and blown out so inspectors wouldn't know at end of race, and maybe a bit of additive that drops into the fuel at the start or during the race hid in the fuel tank where it wont be seen and used up at the end..... you know, some of the tricks the old timers used to know? (yeah, I figured it all out, LOL!!).....then you will get to 300 or more surely. But if it were mine, I would leave it as is now and have fun with it and it may last! It may be to big (referring to the crank shaft and rotating assembly size) with the same kind of metal to take any more RPMs like a smaller inline engine did to make the most HP per CID... A big-block wont out spin a small-block and if the small block can breath enough to burn the fuel too, it wins in a power to displacement comparison every time. There is no point in trying to prove otherwise! I think that 270+ is plenty for a kiekhaefer inline merc period!..... Now forgive my competitive jousting, but if it were a Johnson outboard inspired build, you would have no trouble passing 3hp+++ per CID, and it will start every time and run all day anywhere you'd want to go every time for ever, LOL!!! Take care and good luck with your new engine though, I believe that it is set up very good and doing perfect right where it is !

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    Quote Originally Posted by champ20B View Post
    I was interested in racing, but after finding out what todays stuff is about I decided to just collect and run them sensibly for personal enjoyment...but what I learned about racing outboards and set up is that ultimately, one who gets the kind of HP and speed that racers claim is at any cost. I found out that prop slip just happens even at a high rate. But if speed is greatest even at such an extreme condition, that's the exception. I found out for my self that RPM don't matter. These guys run their engines far beyond what the manufacturers recommend, as long as it would finish the race day.....they really don't care when they are out there in the pack. MPH don't really matter either. Its about starting close at the clock, getting around through and out of a turn, and about quick lap time getting and staying ahead of the other guy, that's all. They have spares when they blow apart.
    Ultimately, with a modified reengineered version of an otherwise old design outboard configuration, if you want the kind of power beyond what you might be getting, then you might as well be willing to destroy it without a second thought. If you get your tolerances (bearings and seals, and pistons/rings etc..)to the point of just before compromise, as in making things real loosy-goosy and even putting a little pin hole from your water jacket just over your induction ports to boost compression and other things and maybe put some pieces of cork in the crankcase to increase pressure till it gets ground up and blown out so inspectors wouldn't know at end of race, and maybe a bit of additive that drops into the fuel at the start or during the race hid in the fuel tank where it wont be seen and used up at the end..... you know, some of the tricks the old timers used to know? (yeah, I figured it all out, LOL!!).....then you will get to 300 or more surely. But if it were mine, I would leave it as is now and have fun with it and it may last! It may be to big (referring to the crank shaft and rotating assembly size) with the same kind of metal to take any more RPMs like a smaller inline engine did to make the most HP per CID... A big-block wont out spin a small-block and if the small block can breath enough to burn the fuel too, it wins in a power to displacement comparison every time. There is no point in trying to prove otherwise! I think that 270+ is plenty for a kiekhaefer inline merc period!..... Now forgive my competitive jousting, but if it were a Johnson outboard inspired build, you would have no trouble passing 3hp+++ per CID, and it will start every time and run all day anywhere you'd want to go every time for ever, LOL!!! Take care and good luck with your new engine though, I believe that it is set up very good and doing perfect right where it is !
    Which OMC's make 3HP /CI? the factory race engines are 2hp ish /ci

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    Default Austin's ???

    This picture was in a box of pictures I acquired , I am told that perhaps it is Dick Austin and his dad ???
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by racingfan1 View Post
    This picture was in a box of pictures I acquired , I am told that perhaps it is Dick Austin and his dad ???
    Yes, that is Owen, my dad, and I in Alexandria La in the early seventies. Engine had stuck the top main bearing and we tore it down and replaced. I do not remember doing anything with the cylinders, but it looks like I was honing with a high tech brake cylinder hone. What ever it takes. This engine is one that I tried after the rotary engine broke. It had the same crank form the 800 Inline 6 with 2.125 stroke. I did use the mains and reeds form the stock direct charge 6 cylinder (150 HP). the crank had larger center to center cylinder spacing as can be seen by the different spacing of the exhaust elbows.

    A picture from that same day with Skip, the Champion man, telling me to get it back together and get back on the water.

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