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Thread: 2013: Sidewinder Racing Engine to Get Their Own Class

  1. #21
    BoatRacingFacts VIP
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    This disparity between different brands of motors is exactly why I want to see the 44" class (APBA D Mod or 750cc or whatever they call it this year and NBRA E) left alone. Nothing but the Mercury motors allowed.

    Also, I like clock starts. That's just part of boat racing.
    David



    FOR SALE: FE / SE / 850 Mod motor parts
    http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...od-motor-parts

  2. #22
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default Motors and Classes

    I believe High Points are important, but maybe the way High Points have been scored for the last thousand years is wrong.

    The Russ Hill, Jr. point system is needed, I will explain more later.

    Bob Willard was 1-C probably every year he raced except his first year. As I stated in The Willard Family thread, Bob raced 39 straight weeks on Speedboat Rodeo. He raced A-B Hydro, A-B-C-D Runabout.

    Speedboat Rodeo ended in '55, Bob raced until 1959....

    Let me explain my thoughts here!

    1. He had a very good KG-4. In fact, I borrowed it for the 1956 Nationals. My dad didn't want me racing my polished motor, plus it had been taken apart for inspection at the Divisionals, and we were on our way to the Nationals, so there was no time to break my motor in. Besides, my dad thought Bobby Willard's motor was better than mine. I finished third in the Nationals. In '58, I started C Runabout, Bobby still ran A.

    2. Bobby had a very good 20-H, but the Champion Hot Rod, which cost $410 and weighed 41 pounds was faster, but the Hot Rod was called a "Tin Can Monster" as it cost money to repair it every time you ran it. When the Hot Rod came in, most with 20-H's quit, those that bought Hot Rods, went broke keeping them running. The 20-H kit didn't come out until Bob has quit trying to beat the Hot Rod.

    3. Bob had a good running 30-H

    4. Bob had a Mark 40, but he couldn't really keep up with the KG-9's or the 55-H's...

    So, after racing for several years, in order to say with the leaders, he need a Hot Rod and 55-H.

    The answer: Quit!

    My answer: Every class has Divisions. If you have one 40 inch Mark 55-H you get "X" points, but you still get to run.

    There should be clusters of classes. I don't see A Runabouts running with D Mods. But groups. More points ofr more boatsw, more points for more laps, more fun for everyone.
    Attached Images Attached Images           

  3. #23
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    Great Photos Ron hoping to see my old boats show up in one of them.

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    Default My take on stock oautboard racing today,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Stinker View Post
    Great Photos Ron hoping to see my old boats show up in one of them.
    I accidentally replied as I meant to make a comment, but anyway, I know this thread is a bit old. I am trying to get started in outboard racing. I have hobbied around with old green-top mercs, and a few other types over the years. I recently bought an old "B" hotrod that is in really good shape. It was all I could afford to do. I had to design and build my own A/B runabout being careful to stay within allowed specs and mindful of weight/fore-aft ratio. This was all while obtaining maximum aerodynamic and hydrodynamic capability, to which I'm sure came out better than anything else running today. I come from a long heritage of domestic boat building, so that is probably why. Due to my engine being an antique though, I can only go with 350cc modified class today upon proper upgrades. After researching the present state of this very old American sport, I am shocked and dissapointed as hell. My Grandfather, as well as a recently departed elderly freind of mine used to race all the time in the southeast. It was everywhere! Outboard racing for smaller classes was seemingly real popular all over the place years ago. What happened? This stuff is hardly happening. There is nothing available in engines but antiques now. Sure, there is the Sidewinder, but they dont even have a parts cataloque to see online. It's just pictures of this mysterious little motor with some specs and a price along with Ms. Sidewinder (the girl modeling next to the engine). I never saw a online purchase form. I guess one just e-mails somebody and does a deal??? Maybe they are legitimate, but thats not my style. Besides, 4800.00 is a hell of a lot to spend for a sport that is so regionally isolated as well as unknown to most people in general. Furthermore it is ruled to heck and back with no real prizes or sponsorship. People see my boat and are suprised this type of boat racing ever existed!!! I'm from the panhandle near the gulf coast. There are many big freshwater lakes, and many huge bays. The only boatracing anyone knows here is offshore and dragboats. I have family all over the southeast and none of them under 60 years old ever seen this stuff!!! Guys, the only way this sport is gonna make it is to get on ESPN or SUN SPORTS channel. Instead of putting so much into a hotrod that works like a yamato, this sport needs to get known to the vast public coast to coast. Take Japan's parimutual racing for example. It is racing where the spectators bet money. It is a multi billion dollar industry that contributes to society over there. Hell, if people would do this in America to see a bunch of scrawny dogs run around a track, why not these cool little race boats? It could even serve to help young people to get into something constructive and new. They would probably like it if 95% of them knew about it. The Sidewinder could become a real seller at motorcycle/jetski dealers all over. There might even be reproduction parts popping up in JEGS and/or SUMMIT racing catalogues for all or most of the older racing engines. Imagine how great that could be!!! It can be done, but it will take effort and a little time. And finally, for the APBA and other organizations, get sensible with the rules!!!!

  5. #25
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    AMEN!!!

    Greg Jacobsen

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    Default you r right

    champ20b,drag boats have replaced circle racing at a lot of race sites.we used to have a great opc race at chattahochee,fla,Jake has been there.they love boat racing in the low country of south carolina and all along the ga coast.problem,nobody would come the last few years and drag boats replaced us.I am under 60 and remember races,since I went to them cause my father raced.talked to a mover and shaker up here in atl about acworth,he remembered the kneeldowns,told me people would be intrested in boat racing again at lake acworth.Sport put on opc races in PC,fla.

  7. #27
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    Default Future of racing

    Quote Originally Posted by crewman060 View Post
    champ20b,drag boats have replaced circle racing at a lot of race sites.we used to have a great opc race at chattahochee,fla,Jake has been there.they love boat racing in the low country of south carolina and all along the ga coast.problem,nobody would come the last few years and drag boats replaced us.I am under 60 and remember races,since I went to them cause my father raced.talked to a mover and shaker up here in atl about acworth,he remembered the kneeldowns,told me people would be intrested in boat racing again at lake acworth.Sport put on opc races in PC,fla.
    Hey Guys! Thanks for the support on my views about this. You know, I see stock outboard racing as an extreme sport, which is a popular category of sports today. It takes REAL GUTS to run 60-70+ mph in these little racers. With the right approach, those who are able can get together to develope or re-invent this great competitive sport. You know, along with popularity comes possible endorsements! I'm talking everything from energy-drinks to racing gear for any kind of sports, just like the MotoCross motorcycle racing and PWC competitions (often seen on television). The only caution though is that organizations like APBA and others may then try to weed out the simplicity of getting in on competition for the average competitor, as to reserve it for those with deep pockets. That would be something to stop before it starts because thats what happens to money making motorsports, unfortunately. But aside from that, winning a championship race could become a worthy goal. This type of boat racing could go from just a time consuming, money munching, competition hobby to a international sport with promise, that an average income individual could get into.

  8. #28
    Team Member seacow's Avatar
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    Default To improve our chances of survival

    This is a great thread. These things and the future of the sport (if there is to be any) need to be worked out until we have some forward movement.

    I favor divisions in classes if there is equipment to run and drivers to run them. The divisions of a class should run in the same heat unless there are a great number of rigs in a division. Too many class heats for rigs that look the same to spectators is a bore. I also very much like the idea of a truly stock class with a current Sidewinder engine to be run as a division.

    Thank God for crackers, COR and flat-bottoms in region 12. Most of my racing years were spent in A B and C runabouts and hydros. I have always liked J when it existed and A as an entry place for young and new drivers. I have to say though, that too many stock A, AX, and similar class heats becomes boring to spectate, especially when there are no more runabouts. To the spectator's eyes they look and run about the same. At Reno last year except for the crackers there seemed to be only small Evinrudes and Yamato classes present. The first morning there was a large potentially enthusiastic crowd but by early afternoon they drifted away I think out of boredom and they never came back for the next day of racing.

    Some who posted in in this thread mentioned the need to have an announcer for spectators as well one for the pits. I agree that the announcer should be for spectators and also for the pits but even more so, the courses need to be set up for spectator interest. Long courses away from the shoreline with broad sweeping turns are the surefire way to kill spectator interest. Even I get bored with these kinds of courses as a spectator as I did when I was a driver. Long Beach and the Asian betting courses are examples of desirable spectator-friendly configurations. Driver aversion to saltwater courses also takes its toll because such courses are sometimes close to population centers - who may be spectators. Same goes for rough water courses.

    What keeps me from returning as a driver at my advancing age? 1. reasonable cost 2. wanting to sit down while racing. 3. need for electric starting 3. Don't want to go over 74 mph on the straights. 4. Most importantly truly stock equipment that is not obsolete, hard to get, ported, restricted or otherwise modified or a hybrid of parts.

    What keeps new drivers away? 1. Maybe the same needs as I have noted for myself in the paragraph above. 2. The ability to get a reasonably priced rig at a retail outlet 3. Lack of publicity, media attention, sponsoring manufacturers and race courses in the middle of nowhere. 4. Boring races and race courses 5. Endless in-fighting in APBA and local clubs 6. Competing motor sports

    My final thought on this matter is that although our sport is built on competition, it should begin and end on the course. The only way our sport can survive is to not think competition shore-side but for all of us to foster cooperation starting with ourselves and then helping other members to see that it is the only way through these doldrums.

  9. #29
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    Default where to go with older engines

    Quote Originally Posted by champ20B View Post
    Hey Guys! Thanks for the support on my views about this. You know, I see stock outboard racing as an extreme sport, which is a popular category of sports today. It takes REAL GUTS to run 60-70+ mph in these little racers. With the right approach, those who are able can get together to develope or re-invent this great competitive sport. You know, along with popularity comes possible endorsements! I'm talking everything from energy-drinks to racing gear for any kind of sports, just like the MotoCross motorcycle racing and PWC competitions (often seen on television). The only caution though is that organizations like APBA and others may then try to weed out the simplicity of getting in on competition for the average competitor, as to reserve it for those with deep pockets. That would be something to stop before it starts because thats what happens to money making motorsports, unfortunately. But aside from that, winning a championship race could become a worthy goal. This type of boat racing could go from just a time consuming, money munching, competition hobby to a international sport with promise, that an average income individual could get into.
    The Sidewinders are likely getting to be the engine of common choice for "A" and "B" STOCK. I just don't see how the OMC and the (elusive to get parts for) hotrods will keep up. Those are antiques now nobody cares to produce any more. The Sidewinder is a relative of the HotRod, but it is a heck of a lot different. The Yamato-302 is still alive for class "C". So, what happens? Here is an idea. There are well over a thousand of old 15-20 cid mercs equipped with racing gear as well as old hotrods, and OMC engines that can't compete in stock that are just sitting in garages ect. Well, lets build up the MODIFIED CLASS. I'm working on my old 6NHR Hotrod, and I have engineered a nice ignition/flywheel set-up for myself to start that should be legal so far. This shows how American owned machine or parts buisness can be commishioned to make parts. With proper introduction toward popularity, one could build any of these motors from flywheel to prop, brand new from a racing catalogue!!! Unfortunately, I have to hire my work done at a machine shop and pay a good price. That doesn't exclude the challenge of drawing up the plans for them to follow. I wish I could just get a Jegs or Summit cataloge and just buy the stuff I need. If the Modified classes would take outboard racing by storm, and get televised, we could see alot of old engines as well as new coming out of the woodwork to start off. Other good stuff may likely follow. So just let the new motors have stock for now and build up the old stockers to run as good or faster in their own class. MODIFIED!!!! Then, everybody with any old or new "A" or "B" can bring it on. Furthermore, most of todays would-be racers like a challenge. This stock stuff is o.k , but it is boring and limited. Make it so that someone can take their old 20 cubic inch motor sitting in the shed, build it up from a catalogue with modern stuff, and go racing!!!! Maybe they might have what it takes!!!

  10. #30
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    with this approach, stock outboard racing will come back around, reinvented.

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