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Thread: V-8 Johnson and Eliminator 21 'Daytona

  1. #11
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default Several Things To Keep In Mind: V-8 Johnson on Eliminator Daytona: Hill Marine Prop

    Keep in mind, this was the first AME 400 boat Eliminator ever built. I think it may have weighed less than 400 pounds. We had bottom water pitch ups, something that was very new, as most ran the geracase in the water, we ran it above the bottom. We ran a 15 X 32.

    The V-8 was the 3.6 was Second Effort "High Rev" power packs. I have no ide what the motor was turning for PRM's, but I know we went like 94 MPH with a 32 at 6,250 (Where the rev limiter was). Motor burns a **** load of gas, had tons of power. Had it had an even fire crankshaft, so it sou ded like a V-8, not a V-4 it might have been a big seller.

    OMC made so many mistakes.

  2. #12
    DaBull Dabull1919's Avatar
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    I have said many times that the big 8`s sounded like a V-4 cross flow and my buds told me i was hearing things.

    What year did ya`ll run this boat. How did the V-8 run at Havasu in 1986? I think it was Castelli driving it as well. I don`t recall the brand boat but it was not a pickel fork type. Did it run 118 also?

    DB

  3. #13
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default 1986 Was A Good Year

    Truth is, I had watched Mercury go from 55 HP, 58 HP , 75 HP 78 HP, .......Every year, Merc's biggest motor was their top seller.

    Back about 1967, when Carl stopped the production line, to build BP's to give away.....that cost Carl the company....but BP's were the biggest motors Mercury made.

    When Merc came out with the Black Max everyone said the motor was a "DOG", until Dick Sherrer put a Black max on a Twister mid section and went so fast he tor his boat in half. At Long Beach, Dick was going about 100 when all the 100 inchers were going 90....Dick's sponson came off and he skidded up into the parking lot...no one was hurt, but after than everyone knew the Black max was better than "The Tower of Power".

    So, when the V-8 came out i made the decision that he V-8 would be th motor of choice to ouboards and I bought a 3.6 Johnson. I had been working with Lavey-Craft on a Mod VP boat but wanted a bigger boat for the V-8. There was no V-8 MOD VP class but there was a MOD U class that we were legal to race in. John Castelli did drive my "POINTED" Lavey Craft with a V-8 on it a Havasu 1986. There were about 10 Mercs in the race and NOT ONE BROKE. We finished 11th.

    With Parker coming the first week of March, I talked to Bob Leach owner of Eliminator Boats. I got hims some "FREE" AME 4000, so Bob built me a 21 Daytona out of AME 4000. I don't recall what class they put us in at Parker, but we actually ranin the top ten most of the day. We had gearcase trouble, hub trouble....(John Castelli and Rod Zapf drove the Daytona).

    After the race, we discussed the up coming KILO trial at Modesto. John agreed to take the boat to the Kilos and register as a MOD U and run through to see how fast he could go. Now, I had run my 21 foot Daytona through the kilos at Parker with a V-6 at 92 MPH.

    When John retrned from the kilo and said he went 118 I came close to having aheart attack. I figured at 118, with no capsule tha a crash would result in death. I sold th boat the next week and Mike Dondel bought the motor from me. (Mike and hos brother Dale are racing Division II (COR) at Parker again this year.

    The V-8 never made OMC any money. I have often thought had the PRODUCTION V-8 sounded like the Race V-8, maybe the public would have liked this motor....But sounding like a V-4 it sounded more like a turd than a race motor. The RACE V-8's sounded mor than cool!

  4. #14
    DaBull Dabull1919's Avatar
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    So in a way you answered my question about how fast the Lavey went. Being it was before the Eliminator and before ya`ll disscovered the rev limiter packs the best the Lavey could have ran was 92 same as the Eliminator before the new unrestricted packs. It`s to bad ya`ll didn`t find out about that before the 1986 Havasu race. Maybe could have done better. It would have been interesting anyway. Espesially the first lap.

    DB

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    how come they never made even fire V6, ( 2nd effort did)

  6. #16
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default My Thoughts About The Johnson and Evinrude V-8's

    Some people, including myself, get "Hair Brained Ideas" in their heads and sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail.

    I personally feel, that Charlie Strang, then President of OMC, believed he could built a boat racing curcuit that would be BIGGER THAN BUBBLE UP (Bubble Up was a 16 oz cola, that never really sold many bottles of soda, but the term "Bigger Than Bubble Up" always meant something was REALLY good. A NASCAR on the water, he had Bill France, Sr. on the Board of Directors at OMC.

    Charlie was an engineer first, a politician second and a corporate leader....maybe third.

    OMC spent MILLIONS developing the Race V-8 as Mercury had sold many motors becasue they were the winning motors and everyone knew it. The V-8 circuit started off on the wrong foot in the first place, as OMC wanted to own all the motors. Then, let Gary Garbrecht hand out motors. My sponsor, Brad MIller and I had quit tunnel boat racing because we could not BUY Mercury EFI motors. Brad owned Del Taco, a 100,000 dollar a year business and when he could not buy an F1 motor, we quit racing.

    Also, early the V-8 curcuit had more deaths than I really know about. I do know they had three die in one race.

    So, the production V-8 was made as cheap as possible and the race V-8 spared NO EXPENSE. I think OMC marketing, if their was such a thing, never knew the difference between even fire and V-4 sound. Their mistake was that even without the internet, people talked on the phone and consumers found out real fast that their V-8 wasn't anything like the Race V-8. Sales never took on the production V-8.

    Dabull:

    When we ran the Lavey at Havasu with the V-8 we had high rev packs and a Second Effort low water gearcase. What we had done, was design a boat bottom with too wide of tunnels and we could not hold any air under the boat, and it wasn't fast and it didn't handle well.

  7. #17
    DaBull Dabull1919's Avatar
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    Interesting take on the 8`s. I never realized there was that much differance between production and race V-8`s. Thumbs up to Merc for not making that misstake. Of coarse they to had a big flop with the 80`s big block 300 but to their credit they redisigned it to the 3.0L we have now and sales are good.

    DB

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    the F1V8's were sand cast blocks with removeable exhaust

  9. #19
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    I just loved reading this Ole' thread! Makes me want to put my Daytona on a huge diet!!
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    As you can see this boat flies WAY too high... even with the motor trimmed neutral and if I tuck it in, she digs in and never flies level. It still has the twin stainless tanks in either sponson that will be coming out soon and the heavy front seats which I will be replacing with the Racetech Low-Back seats, pictured below. They weigh in at less than 13 pounds each for their extra-wide seats. In the pictures, I was running at 6250 rpm with a Mazco RE4 30" which would blow out in the low speed and would simply lift the nose way too much. I recently bought a labbed Promax 15x30" which I hope will be a great overall prop. Ron, I would LOVE to have one of your Cleavers for solo running.

    I have been really not happy with the motor position. The 300X Promax is sitting on the original Eliminator plate PLUS the Dettweiler 6" hydraulic lift plate with a Dial-A-Lift on it. This I feel is giving me WAY too much setback and does not feel solid as it would being closer... it also makes turning in tight rivers an "event". My goal is to remove both and use Scott Porta's parallel lift plate with 12" of setback total. I have one of these on my Flats boat and it is most impressive, allowing me to run flat out in less than 18" of water.

    I am most interested in the fin you installed to keep the hull from hooking in turns. Any drawings or pics of this?

    See my attached pics for reference. THANKS!!!!
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