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Thread: 1974 PRO Nationals

  1. #21
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    Great idea John. I will help also.

    And no Ron. John Ward and Mike Ward are not related. Mike has a great book he has compiled. It is not a narrative, but a compilation of all the champions of UIM and APBA of classes ranging from the smallest outboards to the unlimiteds. There are classes that were started and discontinued, such as Mod U. Not everything is in the book, but the stuff that everyone would want to research is. There are a few blank pages since the outgoing executive director chose to trash all the UIM records rather than move them, and Mike has put in a heroic effort to collect accurate results that are missing. He has been able to add more missing info to his book in the last ten years, but there are still some old outstanding results he needs. Fred Hauenstein and Ron Hill filled in some blanks about the John Ward Race in Valleyfield in 1976.



  2. #22
    BoatRacingFacts VIP racingfan1's Avatar
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    Default More 74 stuff

    While sorting thru my stuff I can across these pages so I thought I would add them. Thanks again to Wayne Baldwin for suppling the information.
    As far as 2017 goes John and Wayne , I would be than happy to do it with your help.
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    Last edited by racingfan1; 02-15-2013 at 10:08 PM.

  3. #23
    BoatRacingFacts VIP racingfan1's Avatar
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    Default Times and speed

    Thought I would throw these in the 1974 history as it was the last year before the Nationals were forced to leave DePue the 1st due to the low water conditions on Lake DePue.
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  4. #24
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    What caught my eye was Bill Seebolds 88mph in a D hydro in 1969. Now I now this is not 100% accurate , but it has to be pretty close. What boat\motor combination was Bill running that year ?

    Altho you only raced a couple years at DePue John I see your name on that list a couple times.

  5. #25
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    My guess is a Grant built Konig and a Marchetti.

    Michael D-1

  6. #26
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    I think you're right Mike. While the timing is accurate Dale, the course was not surveyed, and was approximately 5 miles. Those speeds are a higher than found at surveyed courses during those days. But they were fast, and considering the level of competition, they were some really great heats.



  7. #27
    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    Bill Seebold Jr. (it's hard to keep from calling him Billy after all these years), is in my opinion the best all round boat racer on the planet.

    He drove everything from J to 7-litre. I've never asked him why he never drove Unlimited Hydro. Does anyone other than himself know?

    I attended only one unlimited race in my life and I was introduced to Bernie Little by a business associate; Dick Chadwick, who drove a few Unlimited heats. You probably won't recognize his name, but Bernie knew him.

    Dick and I struck up a friendship when I asked about a scale model Unlimited on his desk.

    I took him to a tunnel boat race in St. Louis and he took me to the Gold Cup in Evansville.

    At the time, Bill was at his peak in the Bud Lite boat. While talking to Mr. Little; I suggested Bill in Bud Lite could beat Miss Budwieser on a short course with tight turns.

    Bernie smiled and said, "He'll never get a chance to prove it"!

  8. #28
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    Gene:

    Regards your comment about asking Billy Seebold why he never drove an Unlimited:


    I often wondered the same thing, and I asked him one time 25 or more years ago, just that.

    He answered he thought that "anyone who drove one of those had holes in their head". Maybe not those exact words, but something very similar, and I wish I could remember his exact comment. I got the definite impression that he thought the boats themselves, safety features, or something about that class of boats was not something he wanted to be involved with. I later mentioned it to Bill Sr., and got the same comment, but nothing else.

    Don't remember now if he commented as to whether he had ever actually been asked to drive one, but if so and he mentioned it, I do not remember it, and I think I would have remembered that about the conversation if someone had asked him and he said he had refused, for whatever reason. I am NOT sating that he refused if he was asked, just that he did not mention it.

    In addition to all his racing accomplishments, he is a very nice person, and would give you the shirt off his back if needed. Probably some of those folks he competed against all those years would argue about that comment, but fortunately I had the opportunity to race against him the last couple of years he ran "Alky". We have been friends for almost 45 years, and for that I consider myself very fortunate.

    I absolutely agree he is/was the best all-round boat racer on the planet. There may have been one or two better in their specific category for a period of time, but NO ONE better from the age of 12 until he retired around the age of 60 give or take a few years, in all the categories he raced.

    He won the Champ Boat tour at least once, with which group (IOGP, Champ Boat, etc.) I don't remember, but one Championship win came right at the end of his driving career. From a physical standpoint with the high G forces involved, and the mental concentration required for the period of time demanded at the speeds involved, this was a real accomplishment against other drivers less than half his age. Add to that his MOD, PRO, and INBOARD accomplishments and anyone would be hard pressed to argue with his accomplishments over that 50 year period of time.

    He also was VERY active in promoting, along with Bill Sr. before his retirement, all types of boat racing in the midwest area, although most of his was with the OPC Tunnel Boat groups he raced with in the height of his racing career. Along with a leading civiv group in Fenton, Mo., be was responsible brings some of the very best Tunnel boat racing to the St. Louis area including several UIM World Championships. He also tried, with other leaders of APBA around the year 2000, to put the organization on a more financial sound footing, by making APBA premier categories more of a profit center. That effort was rebuffed, and the results are now very evident with APBA in the financial position it is in, and also the secrecy involved in efforts presently being made "to put it on a more sound financial footing and promote membership," or so it is said by present leadership. Almost 200K has been expended to date on that effort and results are mixed, to say the least. The secrecy involved in this effort has also alienated a good portion of the present membership. (My opinon as I do not attempt to speak for him).

    AGAIN, I would certainly agree with you that he is the most accomplished all-round boat racer of his time, and probably still could give anyone a run for their money today.

    A lot of folks may not know he was involved in the building of a 4 engined Unlimited tunnel boat when he still operated Seebold Boat. It was campaigned at a number of Unlimited races in the 80's I think was the time frame, and one of the problems he was working on at the time was the problems involved with a Tunnel type boat competing against a Hydro type boat, as they were so different in the way they got around the course regards turning. The Tunnel boat wanted to go to a buoy and then "pivot" on that buoy as they do, loosing some speed in the process, and of course the Hydro would just "fly" right around the buoys, and in the process gain an advantage over the Tunnel design. We had several conversations in that time frame about "sponson" fins on the tunnel boat, but I do not believe he ever got it to do what he was wanting. I just saw a picture of that boat the other day somewhere and it was located at the time the picture was taken in Texas and had a name that indicated something about Texas. Sorry, but I don't remember the specifics now.

    Several years ago I mentioned to him he ought to have someone write an autobiography of his life, or else write it himself. He acted a little embarrassed that I would suggest that, but like a lot of people I have known, his life would be VERY interesting to read about, especially the years driving and building boats for Mercury, associations with boat owners in the other categories, and his associations with some of the other great drivers in the sport, of all categories.

    In addition to his racing accomplishments, he is just an all round nice guy, although probably some of the drivers he raced against over the years might argue that point, but I never saw him do anything that I would consider unfair/unsafe driving against others, and I saw all the great Championship races in St. Louis over the years, including those UIM World Championships when the "Factory Wars" were at the most competitive. Those "wars" got so competitive, and there was much questionable driving going on, that he asked a number of "Alky" drivers, (so their neutrality could not be questioned) to be turn judges one year at the UIM World OZ Championships. There were a small number of lower classdrivers tossed for overlap violations in the preceding heats to OZ and evidently the factory teams realized there would be no foolishness permitted, and the OZ heats went off without penalty to anyone.

    I remember particularly one race he (Billy) was involved in that featured quite a few laps of following another driver around the course just on the outside of him right on his "hip". After about 10-15 laps of this he noticed that the other driver (who I am sure knew he was there) was slightly overshooting one of the two "short turns" on the George Winter course. He waited until the opportunity presented itself when the driver slightly overshot the turn by about 30 feet and then turned hard left just behind and thru the other drivers roostertail, pulling even with him in the process, and then completed the pass on the inside at the other buoy just a couple hundred feet onward. A real "Billy" move and one that had the spectators in St. Louis gasping in appreciation of seeing what a master could do with a Tunnel boat.

    As mentioned earlier, I have had the opportunity and pleasure of his friendship for 45 years now, some fun times away from the race course (a wild trip in Acapulco in the late 70's in a Volkswagon Mini-Van with the doors held shut with a rope, going the wrong way down a one way street with Billy driving, and 12 people in the van was just one experience) and also the fun of racing against him the last couple of years he competed in the ALKY category, (and no I never beat him) and I really agree with Gene's assessment of his boat racing accomplishments, plus as I commented, he is just a regular nice guy.

    I still hope we get that autobiography from him and I am around to enjoy it.

  9. #29
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    ADD: Go to the bottom to read narrative. Still can't figure how to get the attachments in the right place.Name:  john ward race 1981.jpg
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    Thank goodness for notes, letters, etc for improving memory. I was at Yelm in 1980 and knew we didn't run the John Ward race, but could not remember why. While digging through my stuff yesterday, I discovered I was off by a year. Application was made for the John Ward race and UIM North American Continental races for OD and OF. By the letter, it appears the races were approved and on the calendar when someone notified me from Region 12 that the race dates needed to be changed. I don't know what the original date was, but we tried to make the races at Yelm if possible. In 1981 though, Stan Henderson worked his butt off to have an Alky/OPC race on the beautiful Lake Amistad near Del Rio. The lake shares a common border with Mexico and we were determined to help make it a success since we were courting Mexican drivers to start racing with us in our international racing. That John Ward race was changed to the same date as the one at Del Rio, so we didn't go to Yelm.

    Right when this happened my Dad found that four key employees were just about finished with their plans to go into competition with Alice Specialty and he ran them and everyone tied to the traitors off. I had to quit racing then and go to work, but Baldy did let me go to West Berlin to compete in the OD World Championships a couple of weeks later to finish my racing career. Consequently, I lost complete touch with what was going on as we had to scramble to set up a new general manager, office manager, shop foreman and chief dispatcher salesman for the northern territory, as well as another bookkeeper, yard man , and three drivers.

    This would have been the final John Ward race if it had been run. And there is a possibilty that it was run, but none of the paperwork turned in. Our group at Hydroplanes International was the one dealing with the UIM matters regarding the Pro division, and they might not have followed up with paperwork and results since we were out of it. People that may know about that race would be Penny Anderson, Rick Sandstrom, or Mike Jones....all who would have been there.



  10. #30
    BoatRacingFacts VIP racingfan1's Avatar
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    Default 1974 Propeller article

    Bruce Summers just sent me the 1974 edition of Propeller magazine. Here is the rac recap. Thanks Bruce .
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    Thanks Jungle Jim thanked for this post

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