Formual 150 tech rules???

**Ron Hill** · 03-07-2006

"I've already started my 47th year of racing and hope to run my TIIX in 150 this year for the FUN of it this year. I race for the fun, friendship and enjoyment of the sport. I hope I've been some help to you." Quoted from Larry Swinford.

BRF is an Encyclopedia...seems to me you should have a few pictures from 47 years of racing...Why haven't you posted them.....?

Maybe, I'll run Fatc and formula 150...NOT..maybe, Chad can run 45 and Formula 150...and Formula 120...Trouble is I only have one Formula 120 block...AND GREG FOSTER HAS ABOUT 20..and 200 pistons.... Hmmm....
maybe we could call this Classs the Foster 120....and gbet Greg to donatge some part for a tax write OFF!!!!!!

ADD: So, you could run Formula 150, change pwerheads and run Formula 120...?? Any thing given to you if you run a number four Speedmster, as I have two??? (Just do our best, huh???)...

**larry swinford** · 03-08-2006

Hi Ron,

My aim for Formula-120 would be carburated engines only.
Old 120's, pre1989 champ engines, SST-120's old and new,
no nikosil blocks?,OMC,Yamaha and Susuki engines if they have an engine
close to 122 ci's.
Same boat rules as F-150 and same rules on parts, center sections and
gearcases.
Nothing off for #4 gearcases as I have two of them and usr them for long
races and rough water. They pull the same rpm and speed as my #6's with
the same props.
I will draw up the rules as soon as I can verify what engines are available.
I would like to make it an APBA National class and You know what an up hill battle that would be. They want to keep me away from their sacred cow SST-120. The 1990 SST-120's are the same specs as the 1976 120 engines, but they won't allow the old engines even though they were sold as a production engine. The latest SST-120 engines are not the same as the 1990supposedly homolagated engine and are stronger than the 1990 engine.
When you were VP you agreed the old engines were legal per the rule book and I tested with both engines and they were equal.
I sold my house in Washington and all of my pictures are in a U-Haul truck up there. If I find a picture I'll send it to you if you don't laugh. It's been run over four times and doesn't have a fancy paint job. The best part is the spectator following she (my boat) has and they don't want me to paint her.

larry c.

**brichter** · 03-08-2006

Larry, Instigator is right, there definitely is a more than a hint of Mercury
bias in the F-150 rules. I am glad the class is going well and there seems to be good competition, but the way OPC is going, you can ill afford to discourage any driver that would like to "throw something together" and run a race with some hope that he will win. I don't think there should be any fear that someone with a 2.7 OMC with the same mods as a 2.4 full race Merc is going to show up and dominate regardless of the difference in displacement.
I watched the F-150 race at Kankakee last September, all boats were Merc powered. It was OK to watch, but as a spectator I would have liked to see some head-to-head competition between different brands. Relax the F-150 rules until you get a couple of OMCs (Bombardiers) and/or Yamahas at least showing up and then you'll know you got them about right.

F-120 is a great idea. Be sure to include the old OMC SST-100 motor in the rules, there may be 1 or 2 left that weren't shipped to Costa-Rica

**larry swinford** · 03-08-2006

There was no bias towards Mercury. Just a lot of available equipment. The merc 2,5 is restricted to a stock fishing block just as the OMC,Suzuki and Yamaha and it is the smallest ci of the four. I would like to see other brands being run but need to see some run before any changes are made. They have more ci's and torque and that has to be taken into consideration. I forgot to add the Chrysler race engines as I didn't know if any still existed. I was using known facts and experiance to try to balance the class. I have run a four cyl. OMC, a McCulloch and a Chrysler 150 besides Mercs. Do you have any idea how difficult it was to get the class approved. I have had five classes killed andshot out from under me over the years.

F-120 will include the SST-100's and any other engines that will fit in. TIIx's can run in both classes. The main purpose is to build OPC and pull people back into racing. If you noticed SST-100 was included in F-150 and it was allowed to be modified.

Larry C.

**Ron Hill** · 03-08-2006

Larry,

Are you in Havasu full time now?? I may be in Havasu a week from Friday as I plan to stop and see Joey D'Cucci's new shop....but then again I may not be there for ten days, and that would be on my way home...

I thought the Number VI had a different gear ratio than the Number IV? Are you sure they run the same props at about the same speeds???

A ship is a SHE and your boat is a LADY...but I vote to paint it, make HER look like a Harley...chrome attracts attention. Handsome is as handsome does was Manny Carnakis's motto and he built Lake Ming...You've built Formula 150 and I'm betting, it will be OPC's largest class by 2008.

The YOUNG GUNS and a few old ones who run the Western Formula Lite Series all have clean looking stuff. They have four new drivers this season.....

Our FAT C's will have an award for Best in Show at every race.....
It is the OFF SEASON, I vote to paint her.....She is a CLASSIC but.......

I vote, aslo, to just say Yamaha and Evinrude...do your best, there ain't any rules for you guys except carbs.....no EFI!

**larry swinford** · 03-08-2006

Hi Ron,

I'll be in Havasu till the first of May.
Call me at 928-680-6586 and let me know when you will be here.
I'll try to schedule my time so I'll be here.

Even Bill Seebold has admitted the #4 doesn't slow you down.
I worked the numbers and the #4 ratio is not very far off from the #6.
I ran a #4 for three seasons and did great with it. I had to park it until I get a new set of gears. (it was used when I got it) Handles great.
I think the Suzuki would be better than the OMC and Yamaha. I worked on one and it had a nasty bark to it.

larry c.

**Ron Hill** · 03-08-2006

I ended up with some Suzukis V-6's when I bought Larry Soares Mod Vp Baker and his two Sport C boats....Those SUCKERS are really heavy...

I need a saddle for a Champ mid section...I have a housing, old style, and two number fours....Maybe, I'll build a Formula 150 motor.....I have a cherry 2.4 MOD VP block (Chrome) and five 2.5 black steel sleeve blocks...

Will a 2.0 EFI block be legal in Formula 120 with carbs?

What is an easy (Quick) way to figure which carb is needed for Formula 150 and 120???(As I have a ton of carbs and intake manifolds that I got from Fred Bowden... Would you runa number IV on 120????

**Erick** · 03-08-2006

I believe Brian Tabara won the Nationals with an old 2.0 champ motor with carbs.

Larry and I have always differed on the IV and VI gearcase.

I believe there is some differences in speed and rpm between the two. But I do like the IV a lot, it makes for nice handling

Plus they seem to last longer!

**larry swinford** · 03-08-2006

They are a little heavy but you only will use the powerhead.
I have some center sections and some extra parts in a truck in WA.
Is the 2.4 an oval port or a bridgeport. I'm guessing its an oval port since that class hasn't run for a long time. If the 2.5s are stock blocks they are legal. No grinding allowed.
2.0 liter blocks including pre 89 champ blocks will be legal with carbs.
Just plug the injector holes or use a carb front half.
The best carbs to date are the SST-140 or early SST-120 carbs if you have any. I've even used the old #1s.
I haven't had any problems using my #4 with my 120

larry c.

**larry swinford** · 03-09-2006

Hi Ron,
I had to change my address today to get rid of spammers.

Let me know if you get it.
larry c.

Originally Posted by RonHill

I ended up with some Suzukis V-6's when I bought Larry Soares Mod Vp Baker and his two Sport C boats....Those SUCKERS are really heavy...

I need a saddle for a Champ mid section...I have a housing, old style, and two number fours....Maybe, I'll build a Formula 150 motor.....I have a cherry 2.4 MOD VP block (Chrome) and five 2.5 black steel sleeve blocks...

Will a 2.0 EFI block be legal in Formula 120 with carbs?

What is an easy (Quick) way to figure which carb is needed for Formula 150 and 120???(As I have a ton of carbs and intake manifolds that I got from Fred Bowden... Would you runa number IV on 120????