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Thread: FD-53 Acquired

  1. #21
    BoatRacingFacts VIP John Schubert T*A*R*T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene East View Post
    John,

    I was wondering when you would chime in.

    Did you ever drive the engine we're talking about?

    Are you coming to DePue?
    No I didn't drive that engine. Actually Gene, the Quincy records only record as stuff was sold to Dick, whereas a lot of what was sold to him was actually for his customers. My very first "B" shows up as a Dick O'Dea motor, but he bought the parts for me & my dad ground out the CC & did the assembly.

    Not sure about Depue, as we are putting our house up for sale & my wife is finally retiring. So it depends on what is happening at the moment

  2. #22
    BoatRacingFacts VIP John Schubert T*A*R*T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJuby View Post
    Is Dick O'Dea doing well? I had been in regular contact with him last spring and haven't heard from him in response to a recent email (I think I sent him another email a couple months back too). Thanks
    Brandon,

    He responded to an e-mail that I sent to him this morning right after I posted my response to you earlier. Says he is fine & leaving for a week to attend 4 World of Outlaw sprint car races.

  3. #23
    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Schubert T*A*R*T View Post
    Brandon,

    He responded to an e-mail that I sent to him this morning right after I posted my response to you earlier. Says he is fine & leaving for a week to attend 4 World of Outlaw sprint car races.
    Thanks John,

    I'll send him another email in a week or so if I don't hear from him. Don't want to bug him.

    On the topic of the engine. I have been trying to not make this project a priority (as I have so many other very close to completed projects in the hobby), but sheer curiosity and the desire to answer some basic questions about the engine have made that difficult. I am going to open up the crank case and inspect the inside. Going to see what the rods and crank look like and check out the main bearings. I will update with photos when I get it under the wrench this weekend.

  4. #24
    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Default Rods and other photos

    So I opened up the engine. Split the block, mid case, and crank case front. Here are the photos you requested Gene. First is a side angle when it was still on the crank. Second, I removed it to give you a picture of the end cap. Third is of one of the heavy duty rods I have. Fourth is of a crack I have of found in the bottom of the block. Fifth is of an area i found more cracks. right in the middle of the webbing. cant see it in the photo. Just wanted people's opinions of the trouble areas and the rods. Thanks for any guidance.

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  5. #25
    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    The crack in the base of the cylinder block is no big deal as long as you have access to a good heli-arc (Tig) or Mig welder. The stud hole appears to be stripped any way, so either helicoil or weld. Submerge the block in water and don't overheat the block. you don't want the sleeves to move. The crack in the crank case web is not usually a problem left as is. Just put a good sealer around the valve body when you reassemble the engine. I would NOT recommend trying to weld that web. Actually we discontinued drilling the hole for the dowel pin on the valve body in all the later 4 bangers. That is just a carry over from the stock engines. Generally most of those type mechanics don't take the extra care in setting up a crank assembly that the average race mechanic would.

    Now for the bad news. While the rods you have are HD, they are not the latest. The straight mill cut under the cap of the rod bolt is a shear line. If you have a rod failure, it will likely be at the milled area under the rod cap. As I said earlier, the latest rods with which I've had experience has a rounded bolt cap that nestles in a recessed area in the rod. There is no straight cut shear/stress line.

    I believe most racers realize Quincy Welding and Mercury often co-operated in the development of racing parts that eventually found their way into production Mercury motors. I really don't know if that's the case with these rods since I haven't disassembled a motor in years.

    It seems likely to me that some of the MK-500 Mercury engines built in the mid to late 70's had the rods I'm talking about. Maybe someone reading this post knows.

  6. #26
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    Well Brandon, The cracks at the case is what I talked about on another thread with you. This is because of someone just throwing the parts together. I learned when I was at least 40 younger that these things needed care to assemble or the cages and center main will split the case. I have seen and like Gene said, many motors run and run well with these cracks, but over time they leak between the cylinders and the motor runs "Punky". There is a proper way to set the crank on any Flathead and if not done right it will split the case. About the rods; I have said it before but will again, I have broken more of these fancy trick heavy rods than any of the 600-4 rods that are in your motor. They just need to be round, straight, and reasonably close in weights. New rod bolts and nuts are a must and under race conditions should be changed often depending on number of races/ time on motor. I did this when I reringed the motor which was at least 3 times a year. No rod breakage! Only rod I ever lost was one of those new fangled heavy jobs that was supposed to be the hot setup. The motor does not care what rods or who or how they were made so use good judgement and above all listen to what Gene has said about these" Heavy Rods" and their bolts. The rods fail at the parting line and at the cap machining area as stated as because of Mercury's short center to center length the angle and stress points are higher at the parting line. These rods would be much better in a cracked cap design with cap screws and the RPM stress would be higher. The whole reason in my opinion why the Konig Took over the flathead was because the Konig's would turn over 10,000 RPM's and hold together better at the big end of the rod. The Flatheads at that RPM would kill the motor in short order. Keep in mind that the Quincy motors and Konig's had the same stroke, but the Konig had a much longer rod and this improved the rod angle. The later Z Series Quincy motors had a longer rod and it is not a modified Mercury but a motor designed for racing and was again a competitive motor to the Konig's at the time. I too wish OF had started earlier on the Z motor as it would have made it fun to race against the Konig's with the Z motor. Hope I did not bore anyone with this rambling, Steve

  7. #27
    Team Member R Austin's Avatar
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    Gene, Steve
    O.F. told me the proper way to assemble the looper was to bolt the mid case down on the block with the studs, without a gasket, tight. Then install the crank assembly and torque the case assembly. Then remove from the block put the gasket in place and then assemble to the block. This allowed the case assembly to stretch uniformly reducing the possibility of cracking the web. That is why I went to the smaller mains on the Beast, to increase the web thickness.

  8. #28
    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Thanks guys (Steve, nothing about this stuff is boring!). I put it back together for now, I did not torque it down because I wanted advisement on that when I replace bearings and go to fiber reeds. That assembly procedure Dick mentioned is exactly the way I put it back together, again, just didn't torque it down. When i obtained it it was already torqued down, fully assembled. Another thing I noticed when I had it apart was the fact that the crank had been "worked". It appears to be ground down in spots, presumably to get proper crank balance? I couldn't get the picture the come out right to show what I saw.

    Gene and Steve. I am convinced to leave the rods alone as is. I will weigh them, just to make sure I don't have closer weighing good rods laying around. But I will use this style of rods. On the topic of the crank. You guys mentioned the cracks in the mid case webs and how a lack of proper procedure is the cause, but I would like more info. Is it over torquing? Wrong bolt tightening order on the mid case? Basically I am asking "what's the trick?" Is it as simple as the assembly order like Dick suggests or a combination (or none of the above, haha).

  9. #29
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    Never worked on a Merc/Quincy so the assembly and alignment process is new to me, but I can see how that would be the way to go. This is no way an uninteresting thread. Keep it up.



  10. #30
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    The procedure that Dick said is the correct way to do this. First bolt the mid case to block evenly and tight without the gasket. Then set crank and rod assembly and be sure to adjust the end play as well. At this point I would install the front case and make this also tight. I next install all the pistons without the rings and install the cylinder block. Then turn the motor over several times to be sure no clunking or tight spots. I then lay the block so cylinders are down and remove the front case I then observe the rod pattern to be sure they are not favoring the top or bottom of the crank throws. I adjust the piston washers thickness if there is a problem. If all is ok, I then dis assemble and start over with Dick's and my suggestion on assembly. Only this time when you install the front case you use sealer. After case is assembled, re install the pistons and rings and cylinder gasket and you should be good to go. These things MUST turn over very free or there is a bind and it will tear up the motor if not fixed. Assembling one of these is not a 1 hour job. It is a kin to the early Konigs that used different thickness washers to center the rods so care must be taken. Dicks motor using smaller mains is better for this cracking problem and i can't wait to see/ hear it run, Steve

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