Defeating 15 % ethanol

[Fastjeff57]

The problems happen when the tanks are vented, allowing moisture to enter and form the "white gook". Cars/ trucks, with their vented tanks, don't have that problem, but most boat tanks are vented.

Jeff

[champ20B]

i read most of smitty's attachment. a lot of technical jargon and such. but to get to the bottom line, is this what it is saying? ethanol does not cause any measurable harm. we are mostly at the mercy of the other additives blended in to combat the weather or other outside circumstances. someone with the facts please shed some light on this.

The problem with the ethanol "moon-shine" gasoline is that, (according to my old chemistry-1 professor), ethanol/alcohol dissolves aluminum and certain types of rubber. Furthermore, it will deteriorate "so called" alcohol proof plastics and rubber fuel components by a reaction that will cause them to harden and crack or break over a relatively short period of time. It is not the other additives necessarily. If one has ever come across an old Alky outboard engine that has long been out of service, one may notice that the fuel lines and seals are hard as a rock and/or broken. Yes, it burns clean, but it is no good for domestic use in any type of domestic vehicle at too high of a quantity per unit of gasoline.

[7500Blizzard]

The problem with the ethanol "moon-shine" gasoline is that, (according to my old chemistry-1 professor), ethanol/alcohol dissolves aluminum and certain types of rubber. Furthermore, it will deteriorate "so called" alcohol proof plastics and rubber fuel components by a reaction that will cause them to harden and crack or break over a relatively short period of time. It is not the other additives necessarily. If one has ever come across an old Alky outboard engine that has long been out of service, one may notice that the fuel lines and seals are hard as a rock and/or broken. Yes, it burns clean, but it is no good for domestic use in any type of domestic vehicle at too high of a quantity per unit of gasoline.

Yeah but other than both being a form of alcohol Methanol and Ethanol are two completely different things.

[champ20B]

Yeah but other than both being a form of alcohol Methanol and Ethanol are two completely different things.

Absolutely..........they are. The difference of these two forms of alcohol is that ethanol can be consumed. It is used for consumption, hand sanitizer, perfumes as well as alternative "clean" fuel. Although ethanol and methanol look the same, methanol is very poisonous to ingest. Methanol is used for certain chemicals/solvent. Methanol is also used in formaldehyde. Ethanol makes a homogenous ( two or more substances making a single) mixture when combined with water and methanol breaks down when water is present. Ethanol is volatile and burns a blue flame whereas methanol burns a more yellow to white flame. Methanol doesn't burn as easily as gasoline and is easily extinguished with water. Besides burning thoroughly under high compression, the fore mentioned safety factor is one reason racers of various motor sports like methanol racing fuel. Equally, both of these have certain negative affects on aluminum, fuel systems and rubber seals.

[7500Blizzard]

True. But a lot of the problems that seem to occur are from people that don't do a couple simple things. Or different regions seem to have problems. I know we put about 2500 gallons through our boats and sleds every year, some sit for prolonged periods some used daily depending on season. I haven't cleaned a carb on our stuff in over 10 years, or had to replace any extra lines or what not. I stabilize my fuel at the end of the season and fog my motors and that's it. Oh and I stabilize the pontoon as it's not used much.

[champ20B]

True. But a lot of the problems that seem to occur are from people that don't do a couple simple things. Or different regions seem to have problems. I know we put about 2500 gallons through our boats and sleds every year, some sit for prolonged periods some used daily depending on season. I haven't cleaned a carb on our stuff in over 10 years, or had to replace any extra lines or what not. I stabilize my fuel at the end of the season and fog my motors and that's it. Oh and I stabilize the pontoon as it's not used much.

Yes, todays ethanol gasoline is clean stuff. It will keep carburators and injectors clean. For example, methanol is used as an ingredient in some carburetor-cleaners. Ethanol will do the same alike. As you mentioned, fogging an engine and using stabalizers specific to todays fuel is a very good idea. Evacuating the fuel system and fogging will preserve the crank-seals. The only thing is that rubber fuel lines should be inspected regularly because some of these measures may stop short of protecting these components regardless, even if the fuel system is drained for storage.

Another thing I know about ethanol-gasoline is performance. A lot of people ask about this, and I have heard answers both ways....but from my experience, todays ethanol gas does make more power, better response, easier starts, and is cleaner burning....and easier to clean up on the engine as well. It doesn't smell as oily/kerosene like as the non-ethanol kind. I know this because I tried it on my Mark-20 mercury once while fishing a few years back. I tried non ethanol and noticed that the old mean green machine really didn't like it as much as the alky-gas. It was noticeably more sluggish and smelled like a diesel engine. I just ran alky gas in it after that. Like you, I preserve the engine well afterwards. I use it, a WM7 super-10 wizard, and a three cylinder Johnson 35 for my fishing activities regularly. All are great engines, but I have had to replace fuel lines several times in the last 12 years or so.

[7500Blizzard]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that doesn't really have problems with. I also don't see any loss of power or even mileage. And most people that do so because of altering factors. Kinda like saying premium is better than regular in a bone stock motor.

[champ20B]

Yes, todays ethanol gasoline is clean stuff. It will keep carburators and injectors clean. For example, methanol is used as an ingredient in some carburetor-cleaners. Ethanol will do the same alike. As you mentioned, fogging an engine and using stabalizers specific to todays fuel is a very good idea. Evacuating the fuel system and fogging will preserve the crank-seals. The only thing is that rubber fuel lines should be inspected regularly because some of these measures may stop short of protecting these components regardless, even if the fuel system is drained for storage.

Another thing I know about ethanol-gasoline is performance. A lot of people ask about this, and I have heard answers both ways....but from my experience, todays ethanol gas does make more power, better response, easier starts, and is cleaner burning....and easier to clean up on the engine as well. It doesn't smell as oily/kerosene like as the non-ethanol kind. I know this because I tried it on my Mark-20 mercury once while fishing a few years back. I tried non ethanol and noticed that the old mean green machine really didn't like it as much as the alky-gas. It was noticeably more sluggish and smelled like a diesel engine. I just ran alky gas in it after that. Like you, I preserve the engine well afterwards. I use it, a WM7 super-10 wizard, and a three cylinder Johnson 35 for my fishing activities regularly. All are great engines, but I have had to replace fuel lines several times in the last 12 years or so.

I forgot to mention, that my fuel pump diaphragm went bad twice during this time due to deterioration. I replaced the pump with a different kind of three way pump with better material that is replaceable. It is an OMC type pump and it is mounted on top of the top cylinder of my merc.

[champ20B]

I forgot to mention, that my fuel pump diaphragm went bad twice during this time due to deterioration. I replaced the pump with a different kind of three way pump with better material that is replaceable. It is an OMC type pump and it is mounted on top of the top cylinder of my merc.

Yes, I know that the merc had a pressurized fuel delivery. But I modified that when I first restored the motor with a now obsolete pump. I later went to a new OMC pump. I have yet to see how it will hold up for the next decade or so.

[A Mosny]

My days with outboard racing and repair lasted from 1975 thru 1985 and during that period I cleaned and de-gummed many carbs and fuel systems from 6 hp all the way to 35' off shore boats. Sitting without gas turn over was the issue in every case, additives were only beginning to be developed and the gas degraded. Now a senior citizen and still maintaining 4 outboards I'm glad to say I have not had a gas related issue in years with the use of regular 10% pump gas with stabilizers only during the winter when it sits. I work in the chemical industry and use both methanol and ethanol by the thousands of gallons, distill it, and re-use it...good stuff for making color pigments for automotive paint and cosmetics. We have no issue with corrosion but hoses and gaskets are a different story. Material of construction is the key and with the right material and preventative maintenance things last. Our pontoon has a 5 year old 115 Suzuki which is serviced and checked annually and has never failed to promptly start but this year the fuel line was replaced because it had hardened. For me this is normal wear over 5 years. I have no issue with ethanol gas and when used with up dated equipment works great. The link to the gasoline report was very helpful in understanding the gas/ethanol history. Just my 2 cents...Thanks