Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: Russ Hill's Epiphany on Boat Racing's Future

  1. #11
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    3,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default I've Only Gone to One Lucas Oil Region Race

    My son, Chad, will be 38 this year. He attended his first boat race at the age of one week. He started racing BMX when he was 4 1/2 in the 5 and under class. He raced J runabout and hydro, A runabout and hydro....winning Winter Nationals in JSR, JSH and ASH. He raced 45 SS at 16, and Formula One at 18. He was Rookie of the Year on the P.R.O.P Tour 1997. He race 45 SS for several years, he's won the Parker Enduro three times, once overall, twice as a class winner.

    Boat racing has been a large part of our lives, but Chad decided he wanted to give "OFFROAD" a shot.

    I looked at the rules for his class and had a hard time believing them. They suggested you buy an Eco-Tech Chevy off E-Bay that had at least 60,000 miles. You then pay $1,400 for and EFI, and $500 for a header, and $600 to get you motor "Sealed". A motor on E-Bay cost $800.

    So, off we go to the races: 12 classes, 220 cars. $10 to entry the pits of the weekend. Nice grand stands. 5,000 spectators and participants, people ride their quads, Rhinos and dune buggies everywhere.

    Each class gets five qualifying laps. When qualifications are over, they give you a print out of everyone's times. Chad's class had 10 cars, Chad was 9th fastest.

    Chad's race was 14 laps, as was all classes races. At lap 7, they toss a yellow flag, and bunch the field for the the last 7 laps. It is like two heats, except, it doesn't take all day to run them.

    12 classes were run, on schedule. Racing was done at 5:00.

    A couple of classes that I thought were cool as hell, Trophy Kart...kids 8-12, 22 entries....sealed motors, also. Th second class I really liked was S-1000. (Stock 100 CC Polaris 2015 model)....There were 33 vehicles in this class. At one time there were four upside down and one in the dry river along side the course. 3 finished. Cost of these 2015 S-1000 is $22,000 plus $6,000 worth of safety equipment. The good thing about an S-1000, is you can drive it on the desert when you aren't racing.

    It became very clear to me, that every class had rules that were not written by the drivers. The rules were written by someone or a group who knew what it would take to equalize competition.

    We were home from the race in less than an hour. So, this weekend, there is a race at Lake Elsinore, 60 miles from her and a boat Race at Lake Ming, 200 miles from here.....

    Lucas Oil owns MAV-TV, any boat racing organization ever go to Lucas and ask them what they might like? I know Geoff Archer of Twisted Liquid Marine, has Junior Drag Boats lined up with Lucas for 2015. This seems like a great step in the right direction.

    Dacati Motorcycle contacted me about a motor with 175 HP....I said, "Sorry, no interest."

    Best part of the car races for me, we had the motorhome there, and 9 vehicles parked randomly...and no one bitched us out for parking like we did. We had family, neighbors, friends....grand kids, old farts, kids...all having a great day at the races.

    Come to Lake Elsinore this weekend end and join us (March 7-8, 2015).

    http://www.jlacyphotos.com/ShortCour...uggy/i-zskpCjJ
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 03-02-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  2. #12
    oldalkydriver
    Guest

    Default This is part of what boat racing should be doing!

    Hi Ron, I know that we were raised around different types of boat racing. I'm not too good at expressing my feelings, but I'm going to try here. I attended a few stock races in my day. Never drove a stock class, however I did pit for a few. And when the races were in San Diego, I did work for the club. As for me, I liked the 'alky's'. Not only the noise, but the smell of the burnt fuel. Ultimately what drug me to the races were my father, and the diffent families. Yup! My look forward day was heading to the races to see my friends and their families. I couldn't afford much while a teenager because of money. After my Army days, I had enough money to buy my own outfit. I purchased an 'A' Konieg from a guy in Georgia. Around the Atlanta area. I also meant Ralph Donald from Merrietta at the time. He happen to live on a road that I wholesaled a grocery store, Atlanta Dairies Ice Cream.

    I soon realized that not only didn't I make enough money to support my habit, being raised around alkies, I had no idea of how to fix this engine. In late '68, I had an offer to work in a casino at Lake Tahoe, so sold everything and headed West. I get back to familar stomping grounds and start attending the races. After all, my dream was to race 'C' Hydro and Runabout. Problem was, I only weight 160 lbs. I had to add dead weight to either class. I was also too light for Torprahanian's 'F', which was my extreme dream.

    Getting back to my main topic: you do remember the puddle and the TV show? You also remember how many spectators they drew? The thing was a spectator could fall in LOVE with racing and buy a competitive outfit for less then $500. I know, I know, gas was also under a quarter. Racing is a team effort. It takes everyone to promote a race.

    A fan or spectator looks for several things: affordability, can he/she do it?, safety, mentors to help, excitement, being able to involve friends. I know once I married and had a kid, the automatic fear factor set in. It was no longer just me. It was my family. Truth be know, I was comfortable with speeds in the 60's mph range. Okay with the low 70's. But when they got higher, common sence for me set in. I have to work the rest of my life to support my family. Divorce fixed part of the problem, but I could not over come the thought that boats were now going faster then what I was comfortible with.

    I went to Alexandria, LA. in '76 with Toprahanian. We were there on a Thursday so we could test and set up. So John drove, and I rode. We took an unexpected bath. John hurt his right hand. We changed motors, and I drove, he rode. Another bath! We couldn't understand it. It was the same setup George May always drove for Lake Ming. Friday, John tried out 4 or 5 drivers. All ended up in the drink except Ralp Donald and I believe it was the Kirts brothers. However, he did not want the deck rider to cross in front of him, so they sat abreast. Not Good!

    At the hotel that night John decided to go with his 'second' fastest setup and Ralph Donald. Good races, but I witness lots of 'upside downers' and people getting hurt. That convienced me that racing had become too fast for me as well as expensive.

    My thoughts for a solution? Slow the classes down for most, find inexpensive motors and boats, and go back to basics. Promote, promote, promote. These days with 80 plus cable channels running 24/7 it could be too difficult to spark interest for a channel and spectators.

    For me, I miss the sound of PR's, smell of burnt fuels and the comfortable speeds. Just my view.

  3. #13
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    3,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Speed, WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by oldalkydriver View Post
    Hi Ron, I know that we were raised around different types of boat racing. I'm not too good at expressing my feelings, but I'm going to try here. I attended a few stock races in my day. Never drove a stock class, however I did pit for a few. And when the races were in San Diego, I did work for the club. As for me, I liked the 'alky's'. Not only the noise, but the smell of the burnt fuel. Ultimately what drug me to the races were my father, and the diffent families. Yup! My look forward day was heading to the races to see my friends and their families. I couldn't afford much while a teenager because of money. After my Army days, I had enough money to buy my own outfit. I purchased an 'A' Konieg from a guy in Georgia. Around the Atlanta area. I also meant Ralph Donald from Merrietta at the time. He happen to live on a road that I wholesaled a grocery store, Atlanta Dairies Ice Cream.

    I soon realized that not only didn't I make enough money to support my habit, being raised around alkies, I had no idea of how to fix this engine. In late '68, I had an offer to work in a casino at Lake Tahoe, so sold everything and headed West. I get back to familiar stomping grounds and start attending the races. After all, my dream was to race 'C' Hydro and Runabout. Problem was, I only weight 160 lbs. I had to add dead weight to either class. I was also too light for Torprahanian's 'F', which was my extreme dream.

    Getting back to my main topic: you do remember the puddle and the TV show? You also remember how many spectators they drew? The thing was a spectator could fall in LOVE with racing and buy a competitive outfit for less then $500. I know, I know, gas was also under a quarter. Racing is a team effort. It takes everyone to promote a race.

    A fan or spectator looks for several things: affordability, can he/she do it?, safety, mentors to help, excitement, being able to involve friends. I know once I married and had a kid, the automatic fear factor set in. It was no longer just me. It was my family. Truth be know, I was comfortable with speeds in the 60's mph range. Okay with the low 70's. But when they got higher, common sence for me set in. I have to work the rest of my life to support my family. Divorce fixed part of the problem, but I could not over come the thought that boats were now going faster then what I was comfortible with.

    I went to Alexandria, LA. in '76 with Toprahanian. We were there on a Thursday so we could test and set up. So John drove, and I rode. We took an unexpected bath. John hurt his right hand. We changed motors, and I drove, he rode. Another bath! We couldn't understand it. It was the same setup George May always drove for Lake Ming. Friday, John tried out 4 or 5 drivers. All ended up in the drink except Ralp Donald and I believe it was the Kirts brothers. However, he did not want the deck rider to cross in front of him, so they sat abreast. Not Good!

    At the hotel that night John decided to go with his 'second' fastest setup and Ralph Donald. Good races, but I witness lots of 'upside downers' and people getting hurt. That convienced me that racing had become too fast for me as well as expensive.

    My thoughts for a solution? Slow the classes down for most, find inexpensive motors and boats, and go back to basics. Promote, promote, promote. These days with 80 plus cable channels running 24/7 it could be too difficult to spark interest for a channel and spectators.

    For me, I miss the sound of PR's, smell of burnt fuels and the comfortable speeds. Just my view.
    Chad and I were talking about speed. One thing we noticed about the times the Lucas Oil Regional Racers gave us, it was in seconds, not MPH. We don't know how long the track is but we do know it takes about a minuted to get around the track. I know Chad's Buggy o n flat ground will go like hell, but the track has three left turns, one right turn about 10 jumps. Chad and decided he may not be going much faster than 50....but who cares, everyone is going fifty. The reason I like 36 Runabout was it went about 50 MPH and could run in any kind of water. I think Wayne Baldwin figured the speeds jumped abut 10% in two years at DePue, and participation dropped about 20%.

    I raced A Racing Runabout and held the kilo record of 70 MPH. To make weight, I ran a 90 pound DeSilva A Stock boat of Max McPeeks. Jim Schoch a Quincy factory driver, blew his A Runabout over at DePue, and the next year the Commission did away with weights. Pro Buggy has a weight of Car and driver, something NASCAR needs.

    I was third in the 1956 A Stock Runabout Nationals at 35 MPH, today and A Stock runs about 55 MPH...Anyone, can drive a 35 MPH boat, few can drive a 55 MPH boat.

  4. #14
    Team Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    233
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Speaking of auto racing, almost anything "circle track" is gonna be peppered with rules and spec limits/parts compliances. That's why I enjoyed the Pure Stock Drag-racing scene. Its nothing big, just local saturday night fun. Here one can run a stock production muscle car. Cruise on sunday, drive it to the store Monday, put on slicks and pump up the shocks to race week-end. If you get tired of it, sell it to anyone whether they race or just like a true performance vehicle. Its been a long while since my friends and I done this though, but in my experience I ultimately found that the 440 chysler big-block is a real hard hitting engine off the cuff. The L-34 and L-78 (396 c.i.d) chevy is a hellcat too, but it likes a bit of throttle as it is a breather like the 426 hemi. It was Just a little bit less though in 1/4 mile than a 426. But one engine that could beat the Hemi or equal it "stock for stock" was a 455 buick stage one. However, I learned by trying it, that a 1968 Cadillac 472c.i.d is an absolute freakishly powerful engine. It is set up like a 455 stage one as far as its factory 10.5:1 compression and camming, but it is a unique design all of its own. It was my little secret for a while till modern hot-rodders have lately caught on to them. Those 1968-70 caddy 472-500 engines were surprisingly light (only 80 lbs heavier than a small block chevy) due to alloy castings, but are super tough and massive. You have to shoe-horn it into a 68 chevy C-10 custom sport stepside (one of my rigs). It would give you way over 400hp (underated at 375) and over 540 ft lbs at 3000rpm. It is a axle twister!! but I recommend 440 dodge and a (472 caddy powered custom job).

    My thing was custom sport factory muscle trucks!! And yep, they made specialized trucks before the chevy SS-454 truck or F-150 Lightning and dodge SRT-10 were ever a thought.

    -1970 C-10 shortbed, custom sport (CST), 396 c.i/350hp, 4-spd rock crusher trans, 12-bolt rear.

    -1968 C-10 stepside, CST package, (1968 casting) 472cid Cadillac engine, 3spd TH400 trans, 12-bolt posi, auto adjustable rear air load shocks.

    -Dodge 150 stepside, WARLOCK with bucket seats, 440cid (all six-pack build except that it is a carter 4bbl 780cfm), 727 trans, aluminum mopar turbine wheels, side gate pipes instead of smoke stacks........You get the picture!!

  5. #15
    Team Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Russ made some very valid points. But from my perspective it is only half the question. We need good, clean, readily available, user friendly equipment. And most importantly we need somewhere to race it on a regular basis. We to be able to show new people they are going to get a lot of fun time racing their investment.

    I was an OPC guy from South Florida. If we use 1980 as an illustration point, living in Ft. Lauderdale we could run (counting from memory) about 10-12 weekends a year within a four hour drive of home. Add to that two long weekends going to the nationals, and you had a pretty full racing year. Cost of entry was manageable - I think my parents had $3500 invested in my E-Production rig. (Allison / 75 Johnson - all less than two years old when we got it). Perfect for a family new to racing, since it was all about set-up, props, and driving - the equipment was bone stock, new, and trouble free. Boat counts were strong - 4am on a race weekend Saturday the Dunkin Doughnuts parking lot filled up with 7-10 rigs ready to caravan to wherever we were racing, and that was us guys from Lauderdale.

    Now when I want to get back into things, the world has changed. Advances in safety have all but killed club racing in OPC. I have lost enough friends to applaud the advances, but it means that getting into a class with good race counts and boat counts means going series racing. Those four hour runs to one and two day races are now 16+ hour runs that require four and five day weekends. The equipment is no longer available new, so equipment has to be pieced together, and there are a lot of questions in some of the appealing classes about how "stock" the stock powerheads really are. So how much equipement is necessary to run competitive in different venues.

    Bottom line is the chicken or the egg. Is the issue the antiquated equipment scaring people away, or is it the inability to get much racing out of the equipment, be it old or new? I can see where the old equipment would scare someone new from diving in, but even accepting the issues of piecing together equipment, for me it is weighing the costs of jumping back into the sport I love, with how much racing can I do every year after spending the money.

    I don't have a solution. And I know we can't go back to the past. But if going boat racing means very little racing is available, like the Hill family I may be looking at other forms of motorsports . . . . and that is a sad thing. I am after all, a BOAT racer.

  6. #16
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    3,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Bookmark59: 1980 Is 35 Years Ago

    I was having lunch with my son, Greg Foster and my step son Alex. It was Alex's 25th birthday yesterday. He is taking a little time off before he start USC Medical School in July. We have two Pro Buggies, one we bought from Foster. Foster is building a new enclosed trailer to carry two F1 boat for this season. Greg has been looking for some S-3000 powerheads and Number IV Speedmasters. Rumor has it, Mercury has four NEW S-3000 powerheads at $12,000 each and if you order #4 Speedmasters, they will make a run of them soon, at $9,600 each.

    I told Greg I might go to Valleyfield and Bay City to watch him run, but that was it. I said, I really enjoyed the Lucas Regional races and can't wait for this weekend's race. Greg said, "Lucas Regional racing is like boat racing used to be."

    Chad's at the races today, there were 220 cars at the last event, in 12 classes. Chad says there are a lot more people, cars, motorhomes at this race.

    After lunch, my step son said, you worked on Greg Foster's props when he was 17???? Almost 40 years ago? I said, "Yes, Greg and I became friends over a prop.

    Greg was 17 year old driving an E Flat Bottom, a rich kid from Newport Beach. He came into my shop and asked if I could fix his prop? (It had my name on it)...I asked, "How did you bend just one blade?" He said, "I was going down the freeway and hit a bump." I said, "You didn't take your race prop of to go down the road??" Greg asked if I could have it by tomorrow as he wanted to go to Black Lake in Washington.

    The next day Greg show up at the shop with a check in his shirt pocket. He asked if the prop is done? I say, "Yes." He says, "How much?" I say, how much do you have? He reaches in one pocket an pulls about about 22 bucks, I say what's in your other pocket??? He say, "I have a check." I say what's in your other pocket? He has about 20 bucks and some change...I say, "Give me all YOUR money." He says, "I'll write you a check for $150." I say, "No I want all your money, not your dad's money."

    Until a couple of months ago, that prop hung in Greg shop...He's loaned it out to some SE Flat Bottom friend, but that was the start of a friendship Greg and I have today. He learned I wasn't about money, I was about propellers.

    My point bookmark59, was the same as yours: You can spend a couple hundred thousand and race F1 because there really isn't any local racing, You can't buy new equipment. Offroad racing is one hour from our house. If I decide to buy an 201 RXR Fox, S-1000 Polaris, I could be racing in a week, along with 33 other racers.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 03-06-2015 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #17
    Team Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    233
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hill View Post
    I was having lunch with my son, Greg Foster and my step son Alex. It was Alex's 25th birthday yesterday. He is taking a little time off before he start USC Medical School in July. We have two Pro Buggies, one we bought from Foster. Foster is building a new enclosed trailer to carry two F1 boat for this season. Greg has been looking for some S-3000 powerheads and Number IV Speedmasters. Rumor has it, Mercury has four NEW S-3000 powerheads at $12,000 each and if you order #4 Speedmasters, they will make a run of them soon, at $9,600 each.

    I told Greg I might go to Valleyfield and Bay City to watch him run, but that was it. I said, I really enjoyed the Lucas Regional races and can't wait for this weekend's race. Greg said, "Lucas Regional racing is like boat racing used to be."

    Chad's at the races today, there were 220 cars at the last event, in 12 classes. Chad says there are a lot more people, cars, motorhomes at this race.

    After lunch, my step son said, you worked on Greg Foster's props when he was 17???? Almost 40 years ago? I said, "Yes, Greg and I became friends over a prop.

    Greg was 17 year old driving an E Flat Bottom, a rich kid from Newport Beach. He came into my shop and asked if I could fix his prop? (It had my name on it)...I asked, "How did you bend just one blade?" He said, "I was going down the freeway and hit a bump." I said, "You didn't take your race prop of to go down the road??" Greg asked if I could have it by tomorrow as he wanted to go to Black Lake in Washington.

    The next day Greg show up at the shop with a check in his shirt pocket. He asked if the prop is done? I say, "Yes." He says, "How much?" I say, how much do you have? He reaches in one pocket an pulls about about 22 bucks, I say what's in your other pocket??? He say, "I have a check." I say what's in your other pocket? He has about 20 bucks and some change...I say, "Give me all YOUR money." He says, "I'll write you a check for $150." I say, "No I want all your money, not your dad's money."

    Until a couple of months ago, that prop hung in Greg shop...He's loaned it out to some SE Flat Bottom friend, but that was the start of a friendship Greg and I have today. He learned I wasn't about money, I was about propellers.

    My point bookmark59, was the same as yours: You can spend a couple hundred thousand and race F1 because there really isn't any local racing, You can't buy new equipment. Offroad racing is one hour from our house. If I decide to buy an 201 RXR Fox, S-1000 Polaris, I could be racing in a week, along with 33 other racers.
    I did the off road stuff when I was a kid till I was about 15. But I took the easy route.....MOTORCYCLE and a FOUR WHEELER ATV!! But I always thought that those mud/dune-buggies were pretty neat too! I never drove one of those. Pretty much any motorsport on land will be more inviting though, than boat racing could ever be. Many people in general aren't as comfortable in a boat on water as they are in a car (a common everyday means of travel and way of life). And anything raced on land is likened to cars or bikes (something most people are accustomed to).

    Basically, one cannot truly compare auto sports to boat racing. These are two different worlds that are as different as a bird is to a fish.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Russ Hill, Sea Scopes
    By Skoontz in forum Boat Racing Encyclopedia
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-24-2009, 08:29 PM
  2. The future of boat racing
    By Skoontz in forum Boat Racing Encyclopedia
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-15-2007, 06:24 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •