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Thread: Old Looper Pipes

  1. #11
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default Could You Contact Paul For Me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene East View Post
    I'm thinking 1964, Paul Christner has all the records. He can tell you the S/R of Carl Meyers' motor
    At DePue, 1966, I was half a lap a head of the second place A Runabout when I broke a rod and flipped. Dave Christner begged Carl Meyers for our props. He said, "Any prop that would push that 250 pounder than fast, will push me too." Carl didn't sell him the prop. Our "REBUILT" LOOPER had the new rods...

    Anyone ever figure ut why the "A" Looper was so fast and the "B" Looper wasn't much better than the "A"???


    Hell, MY Quincy "A" which had been Carl Meyers' was faster than Harry Bartolomei's "B" Looper. Harry ran a pint of degummed castor oil to five gallons of methanol. We ran a quart of Bakers "AA" castor oil to five gallon of methanol. Any thoughts about this??

    Also, my dad liked to run the compression ratio up......

    What ever happened to the Quincy Looper paterns???

  2. #12
    Team Member R Austin's Avatar
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    Something strange about the cast elbow. It looks like the bolt right in front of the elbow would be right in the 3rd port machine hole. ??? The looper forward bolts straddled the 3rd port. Maybe something about the design of the first looper I don't know?

  3. #13
    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    Dick, I spoke with Paul Christner today. He has the original cyl. block. He says that set of cylinders was not 3rd ported. I've asked him to post a picture of that block on this forum.

    Warning, this is a very crude piece of aluminum with a lot of welding but it had some well pedigreed offsprings

  4. #14
    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Paul sent me the photos of the "B" Looper prototype. He said he was unable to post the photos, it was not working for him. As you said Gene, it did not have a 3rd Port. Here are all the photos that he sent me. He is very confident that the elbows and horns are indeed Quincy parts. Now we just need pictures of FA-1 to see if it has or does not have a 3rd port!

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  5. #15
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    Every time I see one of these Quincy cross-flow twin cyl blocks, I always wonder why the Swanson Hotrod guys didn't make one of these with flat top pistons?....
    Just imagine a 15 or 20ci rotary valve Hotrod looper! That would have took "A" and "B" class alky championships by storm back then.

  6. #16
    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    When Chris first told me he was going to build an engine that had intakes and exhausts on both sides of the cylinder I couldn't comprehend how that could be.

    When he came back from the foundry with this chunk of aluminum and then started welding all the chutes and water jackets etc. on it; I thought "My God, he's the Mad Scientist".

    The early cylinders were ported by Chris on a mill he built from steel. Steel has too much spring and it was very difficult to hold spec. on the ports.

    Chris finally broke down and bought a small Cincinnati vertical end mill and a Bridgeport. Prior to that, the only milling machine we had was a horizontal mill about 100 years old. Al Herrmann machined the castings into cylinder blocks and Chris taught me how to machine the ports. Prior to that I was only a welder.

    I drilled a pilot hole the wrong angle on a D cylinder that was for Bill Seebold. I went to Chris with my hat in my hand fully expecting to be fired. Chris simply said, "The man who don't make a mistake once in a while is the man who don't do nothin".

    Chris didn't always use proper grammar, but he got his point across. I'd love to hear him say "Biggen it up or little it down" just once more.

    Rather than firing me like I expected, Chris had Al weld up my mistake and re-sleeve the block. I then did it right.

    That engine turned out to be one of the fastest FD's we ever built. Bill Seebold won a lot of races with that engine!

    Bill and I have been friends since we were 17 years old. One day I told him what had happened during the building of his FD. He laughed and said we should build all of them that way.

    J-Dub; if you're reading this, please post a picture of the ports on your Dad's FA-1. I'd love to know if it was ported on the home made mill or if it was ported on the Cincinnati.

    Believe me, we both would know!

    If it was ported on the home made mill, I would imagine it would be more valuable although we both know you would never sell it.

  7. #17
    J-Dub J-Dub's Avatar
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    Will do Gene! It looks like that will be my next restoration. I do remember Dad telling me several of his cylinder blocks had a lot of travel back and forth to Quincy Welding back in the day (FA-1, FB-6, FB-110 and I believe another FA as well). I know he still remembered the address to Quincy Welding because he would occasionally recite to me. So with that, I am sure it was updated as time went on, but I am sure you would be able to identify the updates compared to OEM.

    *Also, I cant thank you enough for all your incite on the history you are sharing with us. Thanks to you and all the contributors to these topics!**

    J-Dub

  8. #18
    Team Member R Austin's Avatar
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    Gene

    You had corrected someone stating that the Looper was out as early as 1664. I remembered some pictures that I have been converting that my father had taken at Lake Spivey at the 1964 NOA Nationals. I browsed through them the other night and found some pictures from the pits.

    Let me say first that the block in the pictures of the previous post is not ugly but a thing of beauty and pure genius. The die hard old fashion way, of that time, to bring an idea to something tangible.

    Dad had taken some pictures through the pits and as I looked through them, the first picture he had taken of me by my boat and the engine just left of center with a gentleman bent over it looked like it had 2 horizontal exhaust pipes on it so I zoomed in on it. It looked enough like a Looper to confirm they were there in 1964. I zoomed in on the next picture to see if somebody would recognized the individual working on it.

    I the continued through the rest of the pictures and found one that had been taken a little closer and more to the aft, however the complete motor was covered with the exception of the back of the pipes. What you see is the aft half of the elbows with the steel cones as pictured in the previous post. I did two zoom ins , although grainy, there can be no mistake of what they are. It looks as they had shorten the steel cone and were just a little shorter that the final aluminum cone.

    I reversed the order of the 4th and 5th pictures.

    I included a picture of the rocky hill side where the pits of Quincy landed because of your late arrival. I remember that the word was going around through the pits that Quincy was going to build a 4 cylinder version of their new motor.

    Was the 3rd port being used in the deflector at that time? I find it interesting that the first Looper did not have the 3rd post if it did exist at that time in the deflecters.


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  9. #19
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    Default bad design

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hill View Post
    At DePue, 1966, I was half a lap a head of the second place A Runabout when I broke a rod and flipped. Dave Christner begged Carl Meyers for our props. He said, "Any prop that would push that 250 pounder than fast, will push me too." Carl didn't sell him the prop. Our "REBUILT" LOOPER had the new rods...

    Anyone ever figure ut why the "A" Looper was so fast and the "B" Looper wasn't much better than the "A"???


    Hell, MY Quincy "A" which had been Carl Meyers' was faster than Harry Bartolomei's "B" Looper. Harry ran a pint of degummed castor oil to five gallons of methanol. We ran a quart of Bakers "AA" castor oil to five gallon of methanol. Any thoughts about this??

    Also, my dad liked to run the compression ratio up......

    What ever happened to the Quincy Looper paterns???
    Well, looking at the following pics of the block prototype, it did not look like a carefully thought out design. The probable reason why it wasn't faster was likely because the exhaust ports were facing against one another, and all that will do is to expose opposing piston skirts to a un-necessary blast of direct exhaust heat. It could have caused unwanted friction from expansion and/or may have burned away needed lubrication as well if run lean. Quincy did well back then in the larger 30-40+cid classes until the opposed four cylinder 500-700cc konigs came around, but Konig and Anzani seemed like better engines in the two cylinder "A" and "B" classes "early on" probably because of better exhaust port arrangement at least. Even the simple stock based Alky A-B mercs could just about equal them at times.

  10. #20
    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dub View Post
    Will do Gene! It looks like that will be my next restoration. I do remember Dad telling me several of his cylinder blocks had a lot of travel back and forth to Quincy Welding back in the day (FA-1, FB-6, FB-110 and I believe another FA as well). I know he still remembered the address to Quincy Welding because he would occasionally recite to me. So with that, I am sure it was updated as time went on, but I am sure you would be able to identify the updates compared to OEM.

    *Also, I cant thank you enough for all your incite on the history you are sharing with us. Thanks to you and all the contributors to these topics!**

    J-Dub
    Which address did your Dad quote? Northwest corner of 5th and State, or the official P.O. address 431 State St.?

    Personally, I liked the first one better

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