Ques. on very old Konigs

[smittythewelder]

But the FB was already loop-scavenged. Like the earlier deflector engines, it had separate cast iron cylinders (whereas the FC and FB had aluminum monoblock cylinders), but it had modern pistons and heads. Konig sold them with sort of weird looking megaphones that swooped out and aft, one on each side. Toward the end of the production run, he was selling the FB with a quiet, can-type exhaust.

(EDIT) There's a typo up there; I meant to say the FC and FD had monoblock cylinders.

[lcp]

wolfgang, its look like 1975 B konig to me. let me know if you willing to parts out the lower unit. wirawira100@hotmail.com

[smittythewelder]

Head and cylinders are from maybe 1954-1959. Crankcase from roughly 1960-66.

FWIW, Turner used to make replacement pistons for the deflector motor.

[wolfgang]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge with me. Motor will be sold complete - no parting out. Buyer will pay transport costs from South Africa (to be determined). Any offers? (wbarthel@tubular.co.za / topeer@rutherford.co.za)

[smittythewelder]

Hang on, Wolfgang. Let's see if we can get "Mk75H" Sam Cullis to check in on this. He seems to know more about it than anyone. He might even give you an idea of what price you could ask.

(EDIT) Wolfgang, did you notice that there is a several-page thread on this site with stories and photos of South African racers? Scroll down the sub-forums to Outboard Racing History and take a look. There might even be someone there who remembers your motor.

[Steve Litzell]

Sorry Smitty, but you are a little off on this. The first type B two cylinder had two carburetors as stated and also had deflector cylinders. The later type B had one central mount carburetor as stated but also they too had some deflector type cylinders used. Konig used all parts before introducing new to the market. When these older parts were gone then the new ones were used the very next week. This is how when you ordered a new motor, and thought you were good, then next race someone else had a newer type motor. This motor above is one of these. The tie bar between the cylinders is factory. The B motors always had individual cylinders until the Vb came out. There are some 1967 FB type B motors around and 1967 was the first year for the 4 cylinder. The C was also sold as a FC or Vc in about 64 or 65, again to get rid of all old parts, Same for later with the FA and Va. The cast together cylinders that you may be thinking of are FA cylinders as The FA was the first and only at the time Loop motor and shared many parts till the end of the FA series with the very first one from about 1948 or 49. The racing or Alky motors all had stick towers as well. Early type had normal clamps like a Mercury and later had the Konig type we still use. The cast towers are from the Stock racing models both B and C. Bore of the B motor is 57 mm for Wolfgang. You must also remember that motors had to be approved by the racing commission for use. With this in mind motors that were new had to be approved but new bolt on parts did not as they were called superseded parts. So that is why you will find early B two carb motors with loop cylinders. Hope this helps Steve

[Gene East]

Steve, Don't you ever sleep?? I'm going back to bed!Yes I know we're in different time zones.Happy Wednesday!

[wolfgang]

Forensic engineering - interesting. Let me add some: we finally managed to get the book-pages enlarged and scanned. The first drawing shows the then Koenig "fishing" motor. Cross-flow design, on rotary valve per cylinder, turning with the crank and located under the lower crank disc of each cylinder - one carb per cylinder. In the middle of the crank visible the Hirth-spline arrangement, and (not so nicely visible) that bolt which ties the two crank-halves together. The next scanned item is a comparison table of the early (50s ?) small Koenig race motors 175 cc and 250 cc. The 3rd scanned item is a drawing and description of the Rolf Goetze world record motor, which was assembled largely from Koenig based components. Interesting the cylinder arrangement. That would have been early 60s, I think. Rolf Goetze was a giant in the European power boating world, to his untimely and tragic death in an airplane accident returning from a world record attempt in Northern Italy. Must do some research.Attachment 59187Attachment 59188Attachment 59189 Wolfgang

[smittythewelder]

Steve, if you look, I did leave open the possibility that you affirm, that when the deflector motor production run was ending and the F-series run was beginning, that the factory was putting deflector powerheads on tube towerhousings. But the crankcase? Looking closely at the photos, maybe it's my imagination but I think I can see the edge of an unused bolt hole under that aluminum tie-bar. Seems like a home-brewed lash-up to me; did Dieter really do that?? Pretty crude. The FB cylinders had tie-bars of a sort, but the flanges were much closer together (still seems a crappy set-up to hang those heavy iron cylinders individually, with thick, squishy base gaskets and aluminum tie-bars, on an aluminum crankcase).

I did know the FB motors had individual cylinders; I made a typo above (now fixed), and meant to say that the FC and FD were monoblock engines. I raced FAs, and have some FB and FC parts.

Sorry if I gave you bum information, Wolfgang. It was to cover that possibility that I PM'ed Sam Cullis yesterday to come here and take a look. Looks like Steve has saved the day, and the originality of your engine. Good deal.

[smittythewelder]

Steve, do you know the years of first introduction, and the years production ended, for the various Konig types. I had to say "roughly" when I guessed at the years for the deflectors and F-series. I'm surprised at your saying the loop-scavenged A motors began life in the late-'40s. I have a 1957 issue of Boat Sport with a good article and internal blow-up drawings of the FA, . . . which they describe as a "new" engine . . . ??

The magazine motor looks about like the FAs did for another ten years, except the little slide type Bings were mounted vertically, it had megaphones pointing straight out sideways (I had the skinny bounce-pipes), and it had the gear-driven Bosch mag that was on all the 2-cyl. Konigs until about '65 or so, when he began using that nifty energy-transfer flywheel mag.

I remember very well about the APBA "approving" specific motors. My back hurts thinking about helping lift-start a heavy DeSilva and a heavy driver, and a twin-Anzani "D" (two B's on a gearbox) engine that was built by Hallum and Anderson specifically for the 1968 NOA Nationals, because the NOA allowed it. In maybe 1970-71, when some in Reg. 10, and surely in other regions, wanted to adapt motorcycle powerheads to raceboat use, I wrote an essay on the idea and mailed it to the PRO (then "Outboard") commissioners. I suggested it was time to stop "approving" engines and just leave this open, and to switch from cubic inch designations to cc's, which by that point had become familiar to everybody because of motorcycles. Whether my letter had any effect on getting things changed, I don't know, because I gather that people around the country were starting to agitate for this. Maybe some of you.