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Thread: Fc-71, fd-86, & fd-107

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    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Default Fc-71, fd-86, & fd-107

    Recently obtained a couple more loopers in various states of condition. FD-107, is in the best shape between the two D loopers. FD-86 had something pretty significant throw around in #3. Gouges in the sleeve. It will have to be replaced. FD-107 is in excellent shape and has a lot of later features such as water routing and exhaust dividers. Here are some pictures of the most complete engine, FC-71. It is castor locked and is currently soaking. Took the heads off. The bores that I could see look excellent. The internals look very clean. It has been sitting like this for around 40 years. Hopefully the crank journals and rods haven't suffered. It does have some loose oil in the engine, so I am hopeful. I have time to mess around with this one while waiting for some other projects to arrive as well as vital parts to complete current engines being reassembled. The B comes back home soon and the F is being worked on in the future. As soon as it warms up I am going to fire up the A and D.

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    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Still soaking. I am able to move the rods back and forth on the journal (and needle bearings), but the crank still will not budge. The pistons are really stuck. What kind of "force" is authorized or recommended for these engines to break them free? I have used a mixture of several lubricants and oils. I have not tried alcohol yet as suggested in another thread. I know Frank Novotny had to deal with this, but have not seen him on these boards in quite some time. I used a large bar with socket attached to a shortened driveshaft to try and crank it loose. I did not want to apply too much pressure.

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    Brandon, do not use force. I have seen too many old motors with bent and/or broken connecting rods, broken bronze roller bearing carriers, etc. You have to realize that castor oil residue is a great adhesive and needs to be dealt with in the proper way so you don't destroy parts. And if you do start breaking things and continue the process, the broken pieces can inflict secondary damage on the other parts (scratches, gouges, etc.). There are so many opinions on what works the best to cut through and thin castor residue and the range of effectiveness varies significantly. From personal experience, I think soaking in methanol is as good or better than some of the others. But some of the motors that were left with a lot of residue in them (not flushed out by running the motor for a while on gasoline and conventional 2-cycle oil) can take a long time (sometimes many months) to get the methanol to penetrate far enough to get the parts to moved relative to one another without the need for using brute force). So you have to exercise patience if you don't want to damage parts. I had one Johnson SR rotary valve that took about 10 months before I could turn it over. Sometimes, when there isn't much castor residue in the motor you can get by with using a solvent like Berryman's B-12 Chemtool (available from auto parts stores). It cuts through castor residue quickly but evaporates very fast so your working time is very short (i.e., it may take several applications before you can pull a piston all the way out). This is nasty, stinky stuff (contains acetone and other solvents) so using outdoors is best... avoid inhalation and getting on anything you don't want damaged. And it helps to have a couple of pairs of hands involved. Some guys have told me that heating castor stuck assemblies to around 250 degrees F can soften the castor residue to the point where the internal parts can be moved. I have never tried this but I know guys that have put stuck assemblies in their kitchen oven and got the job done... and really pissed off their wives because of the odor involved and the mess when the castor started dripping out. I have never tried heat but if it was done right (in an old oven that was out of doors), it might be quite effective. Obviously, you have to take care not to get burned (insulated gloves or mittens). So, hopefully, this gives you a couple of options other than brute force. Replacement parts for those you could damage by using force could be very hard to find.

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    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info Mark and everyone else that has contacted me. All ideas (or at least a combination of them) will probably need to be used in the end. The engine is pretty clean and there was some lose oil in the engine so I am a little surprised how stuck the engine is. Nevertheless, I am in it for the long haul. Other than the castor lock, the engine is in pretty pristine shape. Hopefully the crank/rods survived the long sitting with the methanol pulling condensation in. Only one way to find out!

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    l have just finished 6 Konig motors that were completely seized or covered in (castor) and the best thing l have found(lnfo from model airplane guys) is Pinesol, amazing stuff!! Use it full strengh and get enough to completely submerge parts .ln a couple days lift parts out and scrub wih old toothbrush and rinse in warm water.Use rubber gloves as it is a little hard on the skin but not like most harsh chemical cleaners. Here in Canada it sells for about $6.00 for 1.5 liters.You can save whats left and use it over and over. Also best carb cleaner/soaker l have found now that you cant get Kleen Flo 451 parts & metal cleaner & that stuff is the worst smelling ever and you'll stink for days. With Pinesol you'll just smell like a Provincial (State) Park toilet!!

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    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    I want to comment on Mark's reference to heating a castor fused assembly in the kitchen oven.

    That is exactly how we installed the original sleeves on ALL Quincy Loopers. We had an old electric kitchen stove in the back room. No odor on new sleeves, but a re-sleeve of an engine that had been subjected to castor oil might issue a fragrance most wives would not appreciate.

    Personally I like the smell of burned castor oil.

    I wish I had a dollar for every shirt that has been ruined by castor oil. That's why the QW race team wore black shirts even though a lighter color would has been much cooler.

    My Dad died in 1968, but this topic brings to mind something he once told a friend regarding our use of castor oil as a lubricant. He said, "It makes them go a-****tin and a-gittin"!

    I know the censors will bleep 4 letters in the prior sentence, but I'm sure you've heard them before, maybe even said them!

    Thanks for bringing back some precious memories!

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    Your showing our ages Gene, I'm lucky, my bride like the smell of the fuels and oils, When i fire one up on the dyno she is right there just to absorb the essence.

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    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    Just four days, soaking in a spackle bucket full of lacquer thinner and a hand turn of the driveshaft it comes loose. The bores are EXCELLENT, pistons look very good, if not close to new. It will get the full bearing overhaul of course, but I am very excited about it's condition. I'll pull off the rods this weekend and see what the crank looks like.

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    BoatRacingFacts VIP John Schubert T*A*R*T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjuby View Post
    just four days, soaking in a spackle bucket full of lacquer thinner and a hand turn of the driveshaft it comes loose. The bores are excellent, pistons look very good, if not close to new. It will get the full bearing overhaul of course, but i am very excited about it's condition. I'll pull off the rods this weekend and see what the crank looks like.

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    yay!!!!!!!!!

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    Team Member BJuby's Avatar
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    After showing FC-71 with the other finished loopers I had the opportunity to break it down to the bare crank. The crank has fuel/water marks. It may or may not be OK. I certainly can't feel any pitting or signs of physical damage. The rods also have fuel marks on them. The reedcage and main bearing surfaces are fine to "ok".

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