Daniel Zimmermann : a perfect unknown

[Twostrokesmell]

I am a French two strokes outboards enthusiast and I have an interest in history of old outboards from Germany like for example Konig from Berlin but I've also discovered a man called Daniel Zimmermann originally from Berlin South (Luckenwalde).

This man and his small capacities (175 and 250 cc engines) outboards engines seems to have obtened some greats success between 1955 and 1965 approximatly at an European level but he seems to be unknown because it is so dfficult to find informations about him.

My wish wil be to get some more informations about this man or some pictures, détails etc..from his engines.

Did somebody here ever hear about Daniel Zimmermann from East Germany ?

Thanks a lot.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

A couple of members here have quite a bit of history on Konig from this time period. Dumperjack and Sergio. Dumperjack has posted quite a bit on this subject, but I'm not sure about what he might have on Zimmerman, and there was someone else who was asking about him a couple of years ago, but I've forgotten who it was.

Sergio has not posted much but he seems to have the most knowledge about Daniel Zimmerman. He is a motorcycle guy and was interested in Zimmerman's research and development on rotary valves and exhaust systems I believe. Sergio would be very interested in anything you might have found about Zimmerman. Go to the members list here and give him a PM.

Tim Hannah from New Zealand also knew about Daniel Zimmerman, but I do not recall if he included much in his book about Kim Newcombe who worked with Dieter Konig in the motorcycle racing before his untimely death.

[Twostrokesmell]

Thank you so much Master Oil Racing Team, maybe Dumperjack could tell us when did Dieter Konig used rotary disc valves on its outboards engines for the very first time ?

I guess this could be at the end of the fifties but I am not sure. Zimmermann did it in the mid-fifties I think.

Another question is about the exhaust : did an outboard exhaust use the same system than a two stroke motorcycle exhaust ? in French we call it un "pot de détente" but I don't know the sentence in English sorry.

I would like to know who used this system for the very first time on an outboard exhaust.

Thank you.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

As far as I know the first external rotary valve Konigs were built in 1967 when the V series started. I don't know how long Dieter had experimented with the external rotary valves before putting them into production. Steve Litzell is very knowledgeable on Konig history as well and he may know some answers. Earlier models of Konig such as FB and FC had internal rotary valves that were fixed to the crankshaft. They were about 4 to 6 mm thick if I remember right and were some kind of phenolic resin or something like that and had an angled leading edge. Don't really know much about them because I was just learning how to work on motors back then , and our FB was so reliable we very seldom had to take it apart.

I worked on a speedway bike with Dieter one time and he had me modify an exhaust manifold to be able to fit an expansion chamber on it that was same as used on an outboard. As far as I know they were basically the same, but with maybe some alterations to get it to fit on whatever type of motorcycle it was mounted on.

In 1975 I interviewed Dieter, and he claims he was the first to put tuned exhausts on outboards. It may be that others had done it around that time as well and he didn't know about it. What I do know is that he pulled a journal out of his desk drawer and turned to a page from 1957 where he had made an entry on a remarkable discovery he made in his dyno room. Seems like he also drew a little picture. I wish I had had the foresight to take a picture of that page or have gotten him to make a copy for me. That might help clear up some questions. Back then I did not know anything about the German language and so I just had to go by what Dieter told me what it said. I did learn one of my first German boat racing words that day though. Auspoof is exhaust.

What Dieter told me happened on that day in 1957 was that he got tired of so much exhaust building up inside of his dyno room so he built a manifold and then attached a pipe to it to direct the exhaust outside the room. When he fired up his motor to check out the piping, he was surprised to get a boost in horsepower. That is when Dieter first started experimenting with exhausts. The first pipes I think were the ones that stuck straight out on either side of the motor. I don't know how he came up with megaphones, length, diameters or anything like that, but Dieter was tireless when it came to designing and testing. The cans from the midsixties were merely megaphones encased by cylindrical mufflers. Had to do with government regulations on noise. By the time the sliding expansion chambers came about everyone building two cycle racing engines knew about exhaust systems so I don't know who first began working on all the dimensions and specs for those pipes.

Steve Litzell will probably fill in a lot of blanks for you before long.

[Steve Litzell]

Wayne, You did nicely and correct about the B motor being first with rotary Valve in 1967. The Vc and Vd also got those at about that same time. Again you are correct on the pipe thing. The A was the first with expansion chambers about 1958/59 maybe later as they looked like darts and were fixed, they did not slide. These were on the A motors with iron cylinders before the aluminum ones came out with a Carburetor and exhaust on both sides of the cylinders. You get a A+ one this one buddy, Hope you are dry and no problems with all the rain ya'll been having, Steve

[Master Oil Racing Team]

We're fine Steve, Thanks. Joe said you called and were concerned, but all is fine here. Lots of water. Others didn't come out so good.

[Twostrokesmell]

Thank you for replying with so much details, I always wonder what was the relationship between Zimmermann and Konig ; in others words : did Dieter Konig and Daniel Zimmermann knew each other ?
Could have they shared some informations ? Could Zimmermann have influenced Konig ?
It's very difficult to say.

[wolfgang]

Daniel Zimmermann had been at MZ (Motorrrad-Fabrik Zschopau in communist-ruled Eastern Germany-DDR), when they started off their world-championship
winning rotary valve development for racing motorcycle engines. Their star driver Ernst Degener later escaped during a race in Japan (with a roll of drawings)
and was welcomed and employed by Suzuki. That escape created the Japanese rotary race engine boom, after Suzuki had previously copied the extremely
popularGerman 250cc Adler two cylinder two stroke motorcycle engine (with 54x54 mm bore and stroke also the basis for the early Koenig loop charged engines).

[wolfgang]

Daniel Zimmermann had been at MZ (Motorrrad-Fabrik Zschopau in communist-ruled Eastern Germany-DDR), when they started off their world-championship
winning rotary valve development for racing motorcycle engines. Their star driver Ernst Degener later escaped during a race in Japan (with a roll of drawings)
and was welcomed and employed by Suzuki. That escape created the Japanese rotary race engine boom, after Suzuki had previously copied the extremely
popularGerman 250cc Adler two cylinder two stroke motorcycle engine (with 54x54 mm bore and stroke also the basis for the early Koenig loop charged engines).

[Twostrokesmell]

Dear Wolfgang, I know a little about Zimmermann's motorcycling activities, but my question is more about racing outboards because I am quite sure that Zimmermann and Konig's outboards engines compete against each other in small capacity class.

I thought it could be interesting to compare DZ (Daniel Zimmermann) and DT (Dieter Konig) outboards 's engines. Différences or commons points etc etc..