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Thread: James Diedrich Hallum, 5/18/32 - 7/19/16

  1. #81
    Team Member OldRJexSea's Avatar
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    Default Elgin Gates & C.W.'Doc' Jones...

    Ron;
    Elgin Gates is a very familiar name from our memories of the late 1950’s. I think that some of the older SOA racers did remember that the insignia was Gate’s Jacoby, a bit of 'tribal' knowledge. In that era there were nice publications for reading about outboard racing so the Notable names were etched in memory. That reading included the Winnebagoland & Stockton to Redding marathon days which alway seemed fairly dramatic.

    There is a short memory of Entrop telling about Doc’s business transition from Merc to OMC and the move to AZ. Might have been mention of E. Gates then too. The later years where the Hill’s were involved is interesting to learn about. Seems to be a very odd & unfortunate end arrangement for the Hill - Mercury connection.

    Entrop spoke about Doc Jones in a way that it was easy to know they were very good friends. Had they lived in the same town you would expect them to be pals. In one of those rolling DeSoto conversations I asked Hugh about the “Doc” nickname, thinking it may be a professional attribute. I don’t recall that answer but did learn that he was C.W. Jones and answered to either.

    My most distinct memory in 1959 was the Stock Outboard Nat’s at Seattle’s Green Lake. The California racer families were all gathered at the West end of the pit area. It was quite interesting to wander around and talk a little at the R. Hill, H. Bartolomei, J. Alden (I think), and L. Stevens (maybe), very substantial trailers. There were a few more with smaller rigs and car-toppers. Bunch of racer kids attached; everyone well tanned and wondering about the “rain bleached” Seattle crews. We could see their fine tans when they pulled off their winter jackets to go racing on a nice warm Seattle day. First sight of an M hydro motor in the Bartolomei trailer and a tiny hull on the top rack. I think a similar gang arrived at the same spot some years later for an Outboard Divisionals so I get the memory images mixed together.

    Russ R.
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  2. #82
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default Elgin Gates, Had His Own Shelf in My Dad's Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRJexSea View Post
    Ron;
    Elgin Gates is a very familiar name from our memories of the late 1950’s. I think that some of the older SOA racers did remember that the insignia was Gate’s Jacoby, a bit of 'tribal' knowledge. In that era there were nice publications for reading about outboard racing so the Notable names were etched in memory. That reading included the Winnebagoland & Stockton to Redding marathon days which alway seemed fairly dramatic.

    There is a short memory of Entrop telling about Doc’s business transition from Merc to OMC and the move to AZ. Might have been mention of E. Gates then too. The later years where the Hill’s were involved is interesting to learn about. Seems to be a very odd & unfortunate end arrangement for the Hill - Mercury connection.

    Entrop spoke about Doc Jones in a way that it was easy to know they were very good friends. Had they lived in the same town you would expect them to be pals. In one of those rolling DeSoto conversations I asked Hugh about the “Doc” nickname, thinking it may be a professional attribute. I don’t recall that answer but did learn that he was C.W. Jones and answered to either.

    My most distinct memory in 1959 was the Stock Outboard Nat’s at Seattle’s Green Lake. The California racer families were all gathered at the West end of the pit area. It was quite interesting to wander around and talk a little at the R. Hill, H. Bartolomei, J. Alden (I think), and L. Stevens (maybe), very substantial trailers. There were a few more with smaller rigs and car-toppers. Bunch of racer kids attached; everyone well tanned and wondering about the “rain bleached” Seattle crews. We could see their fine tans when they pulled off their winter jackets to go racing on a nice warm Seattle day. First sight of an M hydro motor in the Bartolomei trailer and a tiny hull on the top rack. I think a similar gang arrived at the same spot some years later for an Outboard Divisionals so I get the memory images mixed together.

    Russ R.
    Never fear, my dad and Elgin and Carl were friends til the end. My dad had a six car garage in Bellflower, where he worked on outboard motors. Elgin had his own shelf of various candies, in my dad's garage. My dad was a painter, but made a good living at it, never wanted to be in the boat business. He liked to make motors go fast. His dealership lasted until he died, March 1997.

    1959, Green Lake National were all Stocks. Harry Bartolomei wasn't there, John Alden was, and he flipped in qualifying, his last Stock Outboard Race. Some of those "TANNED" Californian "STUDS" was me! I played varsity football as a Sophomore, we ran the beach in the morning, and rode air matt's, til one ever day...at Huntington Beach.

    MANY PEOPLE IN NEWPORT BEACH TALK ABOUT JOHN WAYNE'S HOUSE, I ALWAYS SAY, "YOU MEAN ELGIN GATE'S?" ELGIN SOLD HIS HOUSE TO JOHN WAYNE WHEN MERCURY BOUGHT HIM OUT.
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  3. #83
    Team Member OldRJexSea's Avatar
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    Yeah Ron,.. I figured that you would get a chuckle out of my comment about the tanned California racers vs. the Seattle crew's constant overcast T-shirt tans. Fun event, those Stock Nat's. That Fall I began the H.S. Senior year & set my ratty old BSH hull ablaze. Good to know that in actuality Bellfower rolled onward just fine, not affected by the Mercury situation. It must have been quite outstanding to live in the midst of many interesting transitions, .... all around the L.A. area. Pretty good lives to remember almost anywhere along the West Coast. That thought may be nicely adjustable to suit the region of boat racers all across the country. A particularly good activity for the young years.
    R.R.

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    Team Member smittythewelder's Avatar
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    Jim, who knew Entrop well, told me some things about the Starflite boats. Russ, you mention that Entrop was less than happy about one of the boats, and I believe that was the "2." The problem (for straightaway runs) was that instead of riding level or slightly "downhill" as the rest of the boats did, this one wanted to ride a little nose-high, which you can see in a photo which is on-line somewhere, maybe in some of the SOA articles.

    As stated, Fantum had set the 130mph record with the Starflite 4. McDonald built yet another boat for OMC, to Entrop's specs, the Starflite 5, which was to carry a newer, bigger, heavier motor (including the weight of a starter). As I recall Jim's story, at the lake preparing for the record run, the crew weren't happy with the way their set-up of the new boat was going, so they decided to put the new motor on the earlier "4" boat. I don't know if this all occurred on one weekend. Anyway, as you said, people were concerned about the balance of the heavy motor on the old boat, but it was decided to see how it worked. The problem with these prop-riders is that once the back end comes up and the lower unit bulb is on top of the water, and when the pipes have come in, the boat accelerates very fast. The "4" would try to go from 110 or 120 up to 150 very quickly. So, rather than being able to gradually test the limits of the set-up, the boat just got away from Gerry.

    Seems like a lot of the bad accidents that have occurred during record attempts in various motor sports have been under conditions where the racer is running out of time to get things set the way he'd like, while sponsors, owners, insurers, the timing crew, and others with money invested in the attempt are expecting results NOW, not going home and trying again in the indefinite future.
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    Team Member racnbns's Avatar
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    Just My 2 Cents Worth--

    Smitty or anybody else, do you know why the Starflite 2 had the word TOO instead of the number 2? I owned the TOO for quite awhile and always wondered about that. When I bought the TOO it had the no. 3 on it. The cockpit cowling was the only place the number was so with patience and oven cleaner I removed the paint and exposed the TOO. I was told the Too was renumbered by OMC to display at boat shows after they set the straightaway record with the 3. I took pics for proof. Even got a pic of 10+ years of dust and overspray while hanging in my garage.

    Bruce

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    Team Member smittythewelder's Avatar
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    You owned the boat? Well tell us about it, Bruce. Russ PMed me some stuff on that boat, maybe he will tell you something. As for "Too," this was Seattle in the Fifties, with Unlimiteds being the biggest sports game in town, and they often used "Too" for the second boat of a series (Thriftway Too, Scooter Too, Wha Hoppen Too). So maybe Hu thought he should do it 2.

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    Team Member OldRJexSea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racnbns View Post
    Just My 2 Cents Worth--

    Smitty or anybody else, do you know why the Starflite 2 had the word TOO instead of the number 2? I owned the TOO for quite awhile and always wondered about that. When I bought the TOO it had the no. 3 on it. The cockpit cowling was the only place the number was so with patience and oven cleaner I removed the paint and exposed the TOO. I was told the Too was renumbered by OMC to display at boat shows after they set the straightaway record with the 3. I took pics for proof. Even got a pic of 10+ years of dust and overspray while hanging in my garage.

    Bruce
    ===

    Memory has it that the StarFlite series of hulls used Roman numerals displayed on the cowling/fin, i.e. StarFlite III. I think that Hubert told of the S-2 being used for display after the initial record so the renumbering for display is most likely as you suspect. I understand that the hulls were kept in a controlled atmosphere Company storage room somewhere so maybe those were only the later hulls or time passed and S-2 was sold. It was the largest size hull that could be removed from Entrop's basement shop through existing doors. The remaining hulls were larger and built in McDonald's Portland shop. I still wonder about the later hulls continuing to be carefully stored. In one of my last regular conversations with Hugh, probably in the late 1970's, he did say that even though the S-3 was a large hull it was light weight and handled very well. I had asked if the S-3 hull would be good for the 1 2/3 mile record course at L. Lawrence using -F- or -D- motors. His answer was that it would work very well for any motors that were maybe 90 HP and up with a balancing driver weight near his, (roughly 160 lbs). That implied the use of his surfacing propellers of course.

    Russ R.

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    Team Member racnbns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldRJexSea View Post
    ===

    Memory has it that the StarFlite series of hulls used Roman numerals displayed on the cowling/fin, i.e. StarFlite III. I think that Hubert told of the S-2 being used for display after the initial record so the renumbering for display is most likely as you suspect. I understand that the hulls were kept in a controlled atmosphere Company storage room somewhere so maybe those were only the later hulls or time passed and S-2 was sold. It was the largest size hull that could be removed from Entrop's basement shop through existing doors. The remaining hulls were larger and built in McDonald's Portland shop. I still wonder about the later hulls continuing to be carefully stored. In one of my last regular conversations with Hugh, probably in the late 1970's, he did say that even though the S-3 was a large hull it was light weight and handled very well. I had asked if the S-3 hull would be good for the 1 2/3 mile record course at L. Lawrence using -F- or -D- motors. His answer was that it would work very well for any motors that were maybe 90 HP and up with a balancing driver weight near his, (roughly 160 lbs). That implied the use of his surfacing propellers of course.

    Russ R.
    Hi Russ and Smitty and all the BRF'ers--

    I will try again. Couple of hours ago I started this, half done I hit the wrong button and it all went away. I am one of those hunt and peck senior citizens, 83 next month and proud of every day of it! I'M SHOOTING FOR 100!

    Smitty, that makes sense about the TOO instead of 2. Fit right in and faster than some of the other TOO's.

    Russ, I wonder if that storage story was just that,a story. I worked at OMC BOATS from 1963 to 65 and there was a STARFLITE stored in an enclosed trailer in theback parking lot. Maybe TOO or III. Duke Waldrop[sp.] was storing the III in Fl. and I rode with Ralph Lambrecht to pick it up and take it to a museum [boats and motors]belonging to Miami historical society. That name may be wrong but the boat is there.

    The TOO I sold to Bill Fennessy who has passed on and I never heard anymore history about it.

    I do not recall where the S 4+5 ended up.

    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by racnbns View Post
    Hi Russ and Smitty and all the BRF'ers--

    Russ, I wonder if that storage story was just that,a story. I worked at OMC BOATS from 1963 to 65 and there was a STARFLITE stored in an enclosed trailer in theback parking lot. Maybe TOO or III. Duke Waldrop[sp.] was storing the III in Fl. and I rode with Ralph Lambrecht to pick it up and take it to a museum [boats and motors]belonging to Miami historical society. That name may be wrong but the boat is there.
    The TOO I sold to Bill Fennessy who has passed on and I never heard anymore history about it.
    I do not recall where the S 4+5 ended up.
    Bruce
    ====
    Bruce,
    The controlled storage story was told to me by Entrop during the year after the StarFlite IV record was set, so yes, it is just a story. The S-2 hull basic performance was marginal compared to the S-3 & S-4 hulls so the intent was to keep the later two hulls warp free and in good shape. The later hulls had much more cost wrapped up in them too. It would be nice to see the S-III in person someday but an unlikely chance.

    A side note: since you are aiming for age 100 in hunt-n-peck mode, maybe one of the very basic Typing Training computer programs is still available to make that time easier. They used to be low cost and worked very well. Game-like in usage. A short time & effort to get all fingers working their assigned keys; maybe just a few hours. The basic skill makes life easier, speed is not the goal.
    Russ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hill View Post
    You mention Doc Jones, what a "Mover and Shaker" in Outboard Racing.

    Elgin Gates owned the Trading Post in Needles, he could gas weld aluminum. My dad would send him gas tanks from the "Alky" races that had cracked.

    Around 1949, Elgin owned an "M" Hydro Jacoby and an "C" Service Evinrude...SOA's (Seattle Outboard Association) logo is Elgin gate's "M" Hydro, today.

    Elgin came to my dad and said, "He wanted to run for records at Devil's Lake, Oregon would he rebuild his "M" and "Service C"? My dad went through Elgin's two motors and Elgin broke both records.

    Doc Jones offered Elgin a job because his boats were fast. Elgin and his wife, Dolly, came home and sold the Needles Trading Post and moved to I think, Spokane, Washington to work for Doc Jones.

    Elgin, had not been there long when Doc came to him and said, "Elgin, I'm selling my Mercury Distributorship and buying the OMC Distributorship. I'm moving to Phoenix, But, they are going to have a Mercury Distributorship open up in California, you should buy it."

    Well, the distributorship was going to be $35,000, So Elgin called my dad and a 1/7 partnership in the business for $5,000. My dad counter by saying, "I have the $5,000 but I only have one partner and she'd hard to get along with. But,I will buy $5,000 worth of motors." My dad became dealer #1 in CALIFORNIA, AND HE WAS STILL DEALER #1 when he died, 1997. Mercury would not give the dealership to me, my dad never had a retail business.

    DOC Jones, and Charlie Strang were the OMC Race Team in the early days. Doc liked me, and offered me a job. I told him, as an Arizona College graduate, I'd love to live and work in Arizona, but as a teacher I got a draft deferment. Later, I won the lottery and didn't go, but the early days. I thought I'd be a ****ty foot soldier.
    Doc Jones and Charlie Strang were the OMC race team.
    Hey Ron you forgot us wrench guys!
    Just kidding and you have mentioned us numerous times when posting about OMC. Your right about Doc and Charlie. If it wasn't for Charlie OMC would have never gone racing and Doc had the shop in Phoenix where we did final prep for Parker and other races.
    I left the OMC race group to do my own thing in 1968. I missed all those trips to Europe etc. Great times though!

    Bruce

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