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Thread: 44xs versus SST45 (45ss)

  1. #11
    Team Member DeanFHobart's Avatar
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    Thanks for the technical information... Cool stuff. How fast did it go?
    Dean Hobart

  2. #12
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    As I remember, Jerry ran about 89 with the 45SS motor and his EMH was noticeably faster. I had been bugging him for some time to let me have a ride in the E and finally in the fall at Kaukauna, he let me play a bit with it. I was probably 50 lbs lighter than him so he only gave me the short course prop. At the time, the kilo record in EMH was 87. So I went out and made a few laps: awesome acceleration and it went 89. It was the only hydro I drove that you really had to hold on so you didn't slide back when it accelerated. I came in and told him the short course stuff was over the kilo record and that I could win the nationals easy with that. His come-back was that with the long course stuff was good enough to push him and the weight to win the nationals! He ran the D and E Mod stuff and I had to be content with his C Mod stuff.
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  3. #13
    Jerry Wienandt
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    And the key to the C Mod was Sam, as driver, and his awesome boat, C-Monster. He and John Puestow had some excellent C props that brought my C Mod 30H to life. I was too big for C, to run it myself. Heck, I'm too big for D and E. Horsepower and trick boats got the job done, though.

    Sam ran like Jack the Bear with that C Mod package. He won several Nationals and set a UIM record. We even loaned the motor and Sam's prop to Fred Miller, who won CMR, after Sam won CMH... Two titles, one teardown!

    Back to 45SS, I really liked the 45SSH class, but I suspect that not many guys wanted to run that... kinda like the Super C saga, I'm guessing. Fred M. killed the class with his tunnel proposal, but I felt the 45SS could have been viable. Fred didn't want a competing class, although I argued we were talking two different groups of potential drivers for the two classes... Oh, well... Sold the motor.
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  4. #14
    Jerry Wienandt
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    To Sam's point about the EMH was faster, it was, as it was a couple MPH faster on top speed with my longest course set up (used for the UIM record at Yelm) and the EMH could be run into the turn harder, faster, actually flat out on the biggest courses.

    The 45SS had to be settled a bit while still going straight, to get some edges in the water, to turn it at speed, due to the top heavy weight of the motor... The EMH would turn faster laps.

    To the original question of 44XS vs. 45SS, the 45SSH was a solid 5 to 7 mph faster than my DSH 44XS, in testing. But, the 44XS turned in better, with less weight and lower height.

  5. #15
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    I'd have to agree about the handling of the 45 being worse in handling on a hydro going into the corner but I think the gearcase was the main factor. The motor had the propeller quite a ways rear of the swivel pin which changed the dynamics of it compared to the Merc set up. I did some of the initial testing with the 45 for OMC, starting out with a smaller gearcase which did handle better, better being very subjective when driving the boat they had with direct steering. However the service life of that gearcase proved to be limited so the production unit was larger and stronger but was physically larger and handled worse on a hydro. It works suitably well on a tunnel but most are blueprinted to spec to maximize the skeg depth. Had the 45 continued as a hydro class, the boats would have evolved to be much like the Tohatsu DSH today- somewhat longer but mainly wider than a boat for the Merc 44 which would have made the handling better.

    The original sales brochures for the 45 had pics of me driving their A&H boat with the direct steering. The pics didn't capture how glad I was to get out of it. I did build a 45 hydro after that for OMC after that which they let others drive as a demonstrator. It was set up to run about 85 mph and was very stable. I was surprised at how few people even took it out for a free ride. After the 45 hydro project switched to tunnels, Jerry Wienandt ended up with the boat and converted it to Merc 650X power to win the Formula E mod nationals for a few years beating the 3 cylinder OMCs. He even let Chuck Petersen win with it. Those were good times!
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  6. #16
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default I Don't Remeber the Years, But Sam Was "C" Mod Hydro....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    And the key to the C Mod was Sam, as driver, and his awesome boat, C-Monster. He and John Puestow had some excellent C props that brought my C Mod 30H to life. I was too big for C, to run it myself. Heck, I'm too big for D and E. Horsepower and trick boats got the job done, though.



    Sam ran like Jack the Bear with that C Mod package. He won several Nationals and set a UIM record. We even loaned the motor and Sam's prop to Fred Miller, who won CMR, after Sam won CMH... Two titles, one teardown!

    Back to 45SS, I really liked the 45SSH class, but I suspect that not many guys wanted to run that... kinda like the Super C saga, I'm guessing. Fred M. killed the class with his tunnel proposal, but I felt the 45SS could have been viable. Fred didn't want a competing class, although I argued we were talking two different groups of potential drivers for the two classes... Oh, well... Sold the motor.
    As I recall, Sam was "C" Mod Hydro for many years. Seems it was about the time Johnny Puestow ruined the runabout class forever. LOL! Seems to me, Sam like my little cleavers in those days, too.

    I went to Dayton, MAy 1978 and took maybe 20 new three blades with me. I have always loaned props out, and generally, I don't like I've lost many. I really thought I knew most drivers, Leigh Furnal was there (We split a motel room) and different people kept coming up, on Friday, borrowing props. Some brought money back, no the prop....

    Towards the end of the day, I realized I had really only sold 8 of my 20 props, but I didn't have any props in my rent car. So, I started down the beach and this one trailer I see what looks like 10-12 of my props......I really didn't know Sam at the time. I say, "Ah, I'd kind of like to get my props back." He say, "Oh, how much did you say they cost?"

    He said, "I'll give you a check." So, I take the check, then I see Puestow... I say, "John is this guy's check good?" John says, "Yes."

    That was the beginning a pretty long friendship.

    I have often wonder how I would have done in a B and H Hydro compared to my BeZoats. I loved the BeZoats, but I quit Stock Racing over it. I fell out of it 2 1/ times and decided a man could get killed in those things. So, I quit and ran Mod VP for the next ten-twelve years...
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 08-20-2017 at 06:02 PM.

  7. #17
    Jerry Wienandt
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    You would have loved a B&H...

    And I got Sam to build all my boats with an extra deep cockpit, as I felt insecure in my previous A&H boats. Too easy to fall out, and I did once and didn't enjoy it.

    I was a pretty big pile, 6'4" and about 245# and the deep sides, higher dashboard and shallower cutout on the throttle side helped immensely. Sam said the boat would look funny, but I needed the extra security and I thought it looked beautiful. On a large course, my B&H's could start to pull a pretty good G force, but I stayed in them... Paying for some extra lumber and labor was way better than getting hurt. All my B&H hydros were built like that.
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  8. #18
    Jerry Wienandt
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    Sam is right about the 45SS would have liked a wider bottom boat. Mine was 36", and with my weight, plus a, what?, 130# motor with a lot of weight up high, if I went in too hard, the boat would start to oscillate. I could stop that by backing off or turning back out some (hope there isn't another boat there), but that doesn't win races. If I stayed on it, I was sure to crash as each oscillation got worse!

    I was fine with the gearcase, after careful shaping, it really tracked well running high and tucked but that tall heavy powerhead felt a lot like a heavy inverted pendulum up there to me... Settle it, turn it, then power on worked on the 36" bottom for me. Guessing 38" would have been the ticket.

    Then, I tested the prototype on my B&H boat for OMC with the small preproduction gearcase, too. That one handled beautifully as of course, it was hand finished perfectly. First time I ran my own larger production case, I knew I had to tune up the gearcase. It was so bad, I spun it testing at Lake Hamilton when I picked up my motor! Stayed in it, stayed upright. That will be enough for today! Worked it overnight in the motel room, and repainted it before the Ocoee race. Easy win at Ocoee.

  9. #19
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    Jerry and Sam,
    You two should write a book about your adventures in outboard racing development-would make for great reading between Packer games.
    Chip
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  10. #20
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    The SST 45s we build today are 71-73 hp at the crank. Takes some careful details to make that happen. Always on the search for good parts.
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