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Thread: Clearing up some old 1980's APBA EP Rules and Boat History

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    Question Clearing up some old 1980's APBA EP Rules and Boat History

    Some Questions:
    (1) When did the rule change in EP class that allowed you to modify the last 3 to 4 feet of the bottom?
    I have seen many hulls especially 13 foot Allisons where the pad has been widened an inch or more. Some were record setting hulls.
    We're wider pads available as production models? Or just not checked as part of the inspections.
    (2) What Year were set backs allowed? Or was it just done.

    THE OASIS HULL
    I have seen two different models..one with a cell and the earlier version no cell.
    IS the boat a delta hull with a different deck?
    Or was it a modified Allison with a different deck.
    Many on this site say it is the delta hull.
    I disagree.

    I appreciate your input.
    Thanks Ron Hill thanked for this post
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    Default What is the Last Set of APBA Rules Do You Have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hounddog View Post
    Some Questions:
    (1) When did the rule change in EP class that allowed you to modify the last 3 to 4 feet of the bottom?
    I have seen many hulls especially 13 foot Allisons where the pad has been widened an inch or more. Some were record setting hulls.
    We're wider pads available as production models? Or just not checked as part of the inspections.
    (2) What Year were set backs allowed? Or was it just done.

    THE OASIS HULL
    I have seen two different models..one with a cell and the earlier version no cell.
    IS the boat a delta hull with a different deck?
    Or was it a modified Allison with a different deck.
    Many on this site say it is the delta hull.
    I disagree.

    I appreciate your input.
    You guys have been racing your cheeks off doe years, what rules have you been using.

    Would Howard Pipkorn know? How about Todd Bucnell? Joe McCalley??? How about calling Allison?

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    Ron, over the years we have made some changes to our rules as we moved from FE-EP-FV and T class. The original rule book was APBA. Rules state that this is what you can do and in the case of the hull what you cannot do. ALL of our deltas, critchfields and Allisons were from the states. In the case of the Allison 13 footer we have several of the new Florida boats. They all have a narrower pad. Our Racers read on this site that pads were widened and it was legal It was Joe who posted that he widened the pads on 3 of his Allisons. Two 13 footers and his 14 footer.. One racer did widen the pad on his boat and it performed better. My read of the book is you cannot widen the pad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hounddog View Post
    Ron, over the years we have made some changes to our rules as we moved from FE-EP-FV and T class. The original rule book was APBA. Rules state that this is what you can do and in the case of the hull what you cannot do. ALL of our deltas, Critchfields and Allisons were from the states. In the case of the Allison 13 footer we have several of the new Florida boats. They all have a narrower pad. Our Racers read on this site that pads were widened and it was legal It was Joe who posted that he widened the pads on 3 of his Allisons. Two 13 footers and his 14 footer.. One racer did widen the pad on his boat and it performed better. My read of the book is you cannot widen the pad.
    Why not measure the widest pad you can find, and make that the width?

    What you don't want to happen is boat showing up with a 48 inch wide bottom that is 10 MPH faster than anyone else.

    Off the subject: But I heard that ROARK Summerfield, Mr. STV and other famous boats, is married to Danny Critchfield's widow. They have been married more than 25 years. And, it was Roark, that I pulled out of the river at the Parker 9 Hour, 1975. I always thought it was Kenny Stevenson.
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 12-27-2017 at 09:22 PM.

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    I think what happened with EP in the 1980's was racers and inspectors not noticing the different pad widths on the same make and model hull. The clever racers like Joe always look for the advantage and are willing to spend extra time and money to try something different. T class has got many former EP racers back to racing. These racers are now older and smarter than they were in the 80's. Thom Bucknell is one of our inspectors and he notices everything! The VooDoo are all the same as are the deltas, critchfields, and rapid crafts. We have 5 new Florida Allisons. Four the same and one with a much wider pad. So far we have not had a racer protest a hull, but we warn racers NOT to modify their boat.
    I mentioned the Oasis hull because Gene's celled version was likely the last EP boat made before EP class died in the states.
    Thom mentioned racing against some Oasis hulls and how fast they were in rough water on the straights. Joe has posted on how good his widened pad Allison was in the corners. We have a celled version Oasis in T750. Gene has used these ideas in this boat. This Oasis hull is a modified Allison not a delta. It has a much wider pad compared to a production 13 foot Allison. It is the best cornering boat in the class and very difficult to pass in the corners because of the spray. The hull also has set back built into the mold.

    81-C had a 29 inch bottom. The wood boat I built for myself weight 80 pounds. Do you have weight limits?
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 12-28-2017 at 08:43 PM.

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    Default Personally, I Wouldn't Race In Your Club, If I Couldn't Work On the Bottom.

    Read Earl Bentz's book about performance. Of my many Nationals Championships, my dad or I, worked on the bottom within 15 minutes of the final. Boats from California change in the mid west humidity, we'd sand the bottom, turn the boat over and race it.
    Just come up with a bottom width, and sid it has to be that wide 24 inches forward...or narrower.

    If I bring my 12 foot Snapper up your way, with a 14 inch ALLISON COPY PAD, am I illegal??? I also, have a 6 inch set back. Let them run any set backs and heights they want.

    If people are spinning out in the corners, you may want a propshaft height for safety!


    NUmber 30, my Snapper Boat.
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    Last edited by Ron Hill; 12-29-2017 at 03:03 PM.

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    Ron, I am sure there is a class for that boat up here. It would not be a T class boat . T class and EP are and we're fibreglass 13 foot Production V hulls. Both classes had the same 4 foot hull rule. You could remove the hook, straighten the bottom and sharpen the edges. So you are working on the bottom. What you cannot do is modify the original measurements of the hull. Changing the pad size is not legal. If the change is made in the mold and the boat came from that production mold then the hull is legal. The new formula V rules in APBA allow you to make changes to the hull after it comes from the mold.
    What upsets racers is thinking the top racers in their class are cheating. You cannot stop them from thinking that way because most think..He that cheats best wins! What you can do is make the rules simple, include in the rules things you know most racers will do anyway and include things you will not inspect anyway.
    So in T class:
    You must supply the inspector a sheet telling him what your running.
    The hull rule is simple..you can straighten it but you cannot modify it. That way every hull of the same make and model hull looks the same...easy for every racer to see.
    The motor must look stock...easy for all to see.
    You can blueprint and balance the motor....they do it anyway so put it in the rules.
    There are spec sheets for the motors.
    We are not going to inspect the tuners at races and we know racers mess with them, so rule is you can run any tuner you want.
    You can run any size set back.
    Weight is another place where racers look for clever ideas to make the minimium weight....VP75 is 900 lbs.....T850 is 725 lbs....T750 is 594 lbs. The lighter T class weights eliminate the problem
    PLUS we have one other backup rule which we have yet to use...No boat is allowed to dominate a class.

    I will admit that I have a mistrust of several kilo records:
    Here is my experience.
    Sport C.....1992 we ran a Tom Cat two, tohatsu....kilo record at that time was approx..63 mph. We reworked that boat for 3 years...ran 63.8 mph on radar......very pleased!
    T850.......1996 got a new in the box Yamaha 70ces......kilo T850 record 67 mph...took us one year but we got to 67 mph.....very pleased....
    SST 60.......record still is 96 mph.....in 2008 we could run over the record.

    Now for the Two I mistrust
    The S850 ....70ces Yamaha record of 104 mph...I have years of experience with this 70 hp @ 6400 rpm motor...I spoke to many who raced in the class....I know the props available...I know about the coil issue..I know all about SST 60... I don't believe the 102 mph. In Britain they run kilo runs most years. Their record is low 90's set in 1991. Many have tried to break it since and failed.

    T750....the record for years was 56 mph with a 50D tohatsu....the current record as of two years ago is 66 mph. With the same motor.. we run a T750 tohatsu.....we can run over the previous record of 56 mph..but 66 mph seems wrong..because it was set by a hull that has never raced in the class..

    Records are very important because they are the measurement that racers compare their boats performance to. To post a class record with a non legal outfit serves no benefit to the other racers in that class.

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