Old Boats

**John Schubert T*A*R*T** · 05-23-2006

Originally Posted by John Schubert T*A*R*T

Actually Smitty, Bob Okner from NJ as I was at the time, won DSH. I finshed with 2 2nds. in CSH only to get beat by Stan Arnstrong with a 1st & a 3rd. I finished 2nd in the 1st heat to Don Christie who borrowed Charlie Piper's padded "C" block. Charlie hadn't qualified. We were pitted down towards the dam with the Region 7 guys. Between heats I asked my dad where Dick O'Dea finished in the first heat. He said 3rd, or at least when he made the turn where we were pitted. So in the 2nd heat I had a miserable start and through the rougher water towards the bridge, I worked my way up to second and did what you shouldn't do in a nationals race, figured Stan had a 1st & 4th and me with 2 seconds should have won. I was being congratulated in inspection when we learned that Stan had beaten O'Dea across the finish line.

Bob Okner's boat and mine were identical, as in those years they were "C-D's". When Sid norrowed the boats that's when he made the 11' "D" & 10'6" "C". THe short Sponson boat came later.

I don't agree with Ron's statement that the short sponson boats were faster through the turns. I never liked them & always ran the conventional spon length. I culd out turn those with short sponsons as if they cranked in hard, the sposon would catch. Mine didn't. But Ron is correct about no fins. Sid always told us at least until I began running "C" that because of the chine angles, you didn't need a fin. Sponson fins were not regularly used between 56 - 57 out east. If I had had a fin, I wouldn't have been thrown out in the next to the last lap leading Ed Sonaras' hot rod at the 56 Cambridge nationals.

I forgot to mention that the early Sid's probably up tp the design change when he narrowed the bottoms didn't really have tunnels as we know them today. They were concave sort of and yes we did refer to them as tunnels. But hydros today which were first used by John Yale have a distinctive straight sided tunnel.

**Ron Hill** · 05-23-2006

Ironically, 1960 turned out to be Stan Armstrong's only National Championships..
Did I say the Short Sponson Sids went through the corners faster?? I thought I said they cornered with difficulty, but came off the corners faster...

Anyway, question is Bob Okner's Round sponson Sids, that Berghauer ended up with and then ordered custom round bottom sponsons. What's the story here? And what is the history behind it?

Do you think the OLD SIDS, would stand a chance against today's boats? Jimbo is so convinced they will compete, he's threated to try and drive a "B" Sid with a Yamato just to show people....I say, "Jimbo, stick with the rocking chair..." oR "Run Fat "C"..."

**John Schubert T*A*R*T** · 05-23-2006

Originally Posted by RonHill

Ironically, 1960 turned out to be Stan Armstrong's only National Championships..
Did I say the Short Sponson Sids went through the corners faster?? I thought I said they cornered with difficulty, but came off the corners faster...

Anyway, question is Bob Okner's Round sponson Sids, that Berghauer ended up with and then ordered custom round bottom sponsons. What's the story here? And what is the history behind it?

Do you think the OLD SIDS, would stand a chance against today's boats? Jimbo is so convinced they will compete, he's threated to try and drive a "B" Sid with a Yamato just to show people....I say, "Jimbo, stick with the rocking chair..." oR "Run Fat "C"..."

I don't believe that Okner's "D" that he won with in 1960 had round sponsons. In 1961 when I ran "C" & "D", I thought that his boats were identical to mine.

Ron, I'm not even sure when the Berghauer's started with the round sponsons and quite frankly wasn't even aware of them until I ran across one at an AOMCI meet. What is interesting to me is that I did alright with my standard Sid as did Don Christy & so many others. No short sponsons & no rounded chines, yet all 3 Berghauers had a lot of success with the rounded chines. I would bet though, that they would have done just as well with a standard Sid, knowing Harold's wizardry with the engines.

Now, Jimbo's statement. Sure a Sid would be just as fast, butwould only be real competitive on one buoy or very tight 2 buoy turns. Boats today sure can get around the turns fast. Ask Steve Warnock. For many years he stayed compeitive and actually continued winning with his full nose "Hawk" hydro. Some people refer to the full nose hydros as "shovel nose". I hater that reference.

**smittythewelder** · 05-23-2006

Ron, no doubt you are right about the boats Raich and O'Neill were using in 1960, but by '65, and I think for a year or two before, they were using the extreme short-sponson Sid-Craft DSH, LOA 10' 8" or thereabouts. I marveled at the way O'Neill cranked that boat, with its oscillating rolling motion, into the corners. I think it helped that he was one of the lighter drivers; another bit of info was that those boats liked a big diameter prop, 7 1/4 to 7 3/8".
In 1968, Ron Anderson, Chuck Walters, and I went back to Forest Lake, MN, for the NOA Nationals. Ron splashed when his B Anzani tore the transom out of the Marchetti he had bought a couple of years earlier. Nick Marchetti came by and said, "No wonder, you're running a B alky motor on a C Stock boat." Ron said, "Well, what I ordered from you WAS a B alky boat!!" When we got back home, I think Ron borrowed O'Neill's DSH Sid for a test or a race. He must have liked it because he soon was building a copy of it in his garage. At the first race (Vasa Park?), Ron went screaming into turn one with Jerry Walin on the inside. Ron evidently forgot that Walin liked to run a wide turn, then tighten the radius after the boat got slowed down, beyond the middle pin. Their lines crossed, and in correcting to avoid a collision, the weight of that iron-block Anzani, with its ram's-horn bounce-pipes and extra carbs, whipped that short-sponson Sid copy into a violent snap-roll. I don't think Ron ran that boat much after that, and eventually bought a BOH boat from Ed Karelsen that was as docile as the Sid was touchy.

**Ron Hill** · 05-23-2006

Jimbo would "oscillate" his short sponson Sid, and if you didn't know he knew what he was doing, you'd figure he'd be on his head at any second. Jimbo ran a 7 1/4 X 12 Cary, that Pop Smith made for me, and I passed it on to Jimbo...

Who built Louie Wheeler's D Hydro? He and Ted May went after it at the Modesto Nationals in '64....