Old Boats

[smittythewelder]

I don't know why this popped into my mind after all of these years . . . .

When I was racing in the mid-'60s, the BSH kilo record was held for many years by Bob Tod, at about 70mph. This was a pretty impressive speed (especially when my old Jupiter topped out at about 53!!) for that time. I asked somebody about the record, and was told that Tod set it with a "bulldog Sid."

So, what was a "bulldog Sid"?

[Ron Hill]

Bob Todd, from Schenectady, New York as I recall. I never met Bob, but at the Guntersville Nationals, 1961 and 1962, they ran Kilo trials starting about Wednesday before he Nationals then at daylight each day until the finals on Sunday.

In 1961, Jeff Fritz's BSh was going about 61, and he ran the kilos every morning...Figuring the timing device was better than his speedometer. Jeff was runing 60's awhike Bob Todd was running 70's...Jeff did learn of efew things as he won the Nationals in BSH that year..with a borrowed prop from Ernie Dawe and driving a Sid Craft my dad sold him..

A Bull Nosed DeSilva had a piece of plywood rounding from the steering wheel to the bow, but a Bull Nosed Sid Craft...and I maybe wrong her. had the tansom set back fartherther than normal, and the deck carried farther to the bow, then dropped radically. The "WING"...cloth deck gave the boat a BULL NOSED look...Having only looked at the boat, never measured it, but I think Sid and Mickey put less turn up in the bottom, and made the deck curve more radically than a normal Sid, then, they set the transom back more like a B and H is today...It was a SPECIAL BOAT FOR STRAIGHTAWAY RUNS. It was "Bull Nosed" and I feel it had very short sponsons, to keep the angle of attack closer to parallel to the water...

So, short sponsons, set back transom, stubbed nose...for kilo runs...ONLY.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Bob Todd, from Schenectady, New York as I recall. I never met Bob, but at the Guntersville Nationals, 1961 and 1962, they ran Kilo trials starting about Wednesday before he Nationals then at daylight each day until the finals on Sunday.

In 1961, Jeff Fritz's BSh was going about 61, and he ran the kilos every morning...Figuring the timing device was better than his speedometer. Jeff was runing 60's awhike Bob Todd was running 70's...Jeff did learn of efew things as he won the Nationals in BSH that year..with a borrow prop from Ernie Dawe and driving a Sid Craft my dad sold him..

A Bull Nosed DeSilva had a piece of plywood rounding from the steering wheel to the bow, but a Bull Nosed Sid Craft...and I maybe wrong her. had the tansom set back fartherther than normal, and the deck carried farther to the bow, then dropped radically. The "WING"...cloth deck gave the boat a BULL NOSED look...Having only looked at the boat, never measured it, but I think Sid and Mickey put less turn up in the bottom, and made the deck curve more radically than a normal Sid, then, they set the transom back more like a B and H is today...It was a SPECIAL BOAT FOR STRAIGHTAWAY RUNS. It was "Bull Nosed" and I feel it had very short sponsons, to keep the angle of attack closer to parallel to the water...

So, short sponsons, set back transom, stubbed nose...for kilo runs...ONLY.

Pretty close, but essentially it was the squared off nose that was the reason we called them "Bull Dog". Dick O'Dea had a Alky "A" and then Sid built another BSH for Dick which I drove for him at Mays Landing with a "popper B" and won. Dick sold the rig on the spot to Dave Bigham, now residing in Florida.

Ron, I don't recall too much about the transom, but the sponsons were essentially what Sid was building at that time. Todd also ran the same boat in competition. What really made him fast was the propeller. As a student at Rensealler (not sure if the spelling is correct) in I believe Troy, NY just north of Albany, he and classmates as an engineering project made the propeller themselves. He als ran tucked under, so perhaps he got it to prop ride. I saw him run through the traps at Beloit awaiting mt turn to run through with my "CSH", but don't remember the boat attitude.

[Ron Hill]

When we ran Kilos at Parker, November 1961, we raised Monty Gibson's transom 4" by bolting a 2 X 12 to the Sid transom. He was faster up river than Bob Todd's record..using a 1:1 foot, short skeg, with my brother's "D" hydro prop... but down river the bow would get too high, and when he'd try to bring it down is would "Cat Walk" on him...

We aways figured, with a long skeg foot and cut down ari traps we could have gone faster...

Bob Todd's "Bull Nose" Sid may not have had a 2 inch set back from noraml Sid Craft transoms... I had forgotten the nose was squared off..

Thanks for posting, John...

[smittythewelder]

Interesting. Here's another question for "you old-timers" (I just hit the big Six-Oh)!! When did Sid start, and stop, building the short-sponson hydros? When I got into the game in '65, there were several short-sponson D Stocks that had been running for a couple of years in Reg. 10, including Mike Raich, who set a competition record, and Tom O'Neal, who broke it, also an older fellow, Roy Williams, who was killed at an Oregon race when he was hit by another SS Sid, driven by his friend, Paul Longthorpe. As you can imagine, poor Paul took this very hard, and didn't race again. I also remember a couple of bigger alky boats that I would call semi-short sponson, both in COH, one owned by Jack Reed, who held the competition record for some years, the other by John Hightower, who ran a Merc 350. Dan York had a beautiful semi-short-sponson BSH, and I didn't know there was an extreme (like the DSH model) short sponson version for B Stock until a novice, Doug Mahurin, showed up with a nice used one in about '67 or so. Poor Doug got thrown out of that boat about every time he went out, until Bob Rhoades suggested he build a special skid-fin bracket that set the fin aft by a good eight inches. I forgot that Rhoades had a short-sponson D for a while, and in fact he told me that the first R&D C/DSH boats were basically built to the Sid dimensions but with longer, properly-angled sponsons, and somewhat flatter non-trips.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Interesting. Here's another question for "you old-timers" (I just hit the big Six-Oh)!! When did Sid start, and stop, building the short-sponson hydros? When I got into the game in '65, there were several short-sponson D Stocks that had been running for a couple of years in Reg. 10, including Mike Raich, who set a competition record, and Tom O'Neal, who broke it, also an older fellow, Roy Williams, who was killed at an Oregon race when he was hit by another SS Sid, driven by his friend, Paul Longthorpe. As you can imagine, poor Paul took this very hard, and didn't race again. I also remember a couple of bigger alky boats that I would call semi-short sponson, both in COH, one owned by Jack Reed, who held the competition record for some years, the other by John Hightower, who ran a Merc 350. Dan York had a beautiful semi-short-sponson BSH, and I didn't know there was an extreme (like the DSH model) short sponson version for B Stock until a novice, Doug Mahurin, showed up with a nice used one in about '67 or so. Poor Doug got thrown out of that boat about every time he went out, until Bob Rhoades suggested he build a special skid-fin bracket that set the fin aft by a good eight inches. I forgot that Rhoades had a short-sponson D for a while, and in fact he told me that the first R&D C/DSH boats were basically built to the Sid dimensions but with longer, properly-angled sponsons, and somewhat flatter non-trips.

Guessing now, but the short sponson Sids first appeared on the "A" hydro in the early 60's. The last Sid Crafts were built in 1965 as my brother and I went to their shop, we were very good family friends with Sid & his son Bobby, I actually had the first Sid Hydro in 1956, and there was a short sponson "A" on the jig. It was the very last Sid Craft ever built. We bought it. My brother ran it in "A" and that was the year that region 3 headed by George Stillwill started the "JSH" class. My then wife who had never been in a race boat before raced "JSH" and won several trophies.

In 1967 the Sid-Son appeared as Sid & his son Bobby, still alive today, enlarged his single car garage behind Sid's house to about a 4 car garage. This is where Bobby built the Sid-Son hudro's and tunnels. I also drove the first Sid-Son tunnel in "S" class

[john lawrence]

I found the info on the Sids very interesting, did Bob Tod run 1to1 in competition with the 20H Conversion. What was the secret to this wheel, I do not remember anyone running anywhere near that speed at that time. Seems to me this was in the early 60s when 20H speed was around 62. Whatever became of Bill Parker remember him at Berwick, and that was the first time I saw Hedlunds run this runabout that turned on a dime and rode like a hydro with the bow up. You had to be there! John Lawrence

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I found the info on the Sids very interesting, did Bob Tod run 1to1 in competition with the 20H Conversion. What was the secret to this wheel, I do not remember anyone running anywhere near that speed at that time. Seems to me this was in the early 60s when 20H speed was around 62. Whatever became of Bill Parker remember him at Berwick, and that was the first time I saw Hedlunds run this runabout that turned on a dime and rode like a hydro with the bow up. You had to be there! John Lawrence

Not sure about Bob Tod's competition gear ratio, but would assume he switched to 16:21. There were very few that used 1:1's successfully in competition. I raced at Berwick, PA in the early 60's. Norm Brewington might have been the driver with the Hedlund, and maybe Ernie Fanslau.

Bill & Evie Parker moved to Florida in either the late 60's or early 70's. They both sadly have left us.

[Ron Hill]

I talked to Jeff Fritz today. (1961 "B" Stock Hydro National Champion).Jeff has two KG-4s, two 20-Hs and and a 30-H. He also has an "A", "B" and "C-D" Hydro... He was hoping there was a REAL museum that might want these. I told him, I didn't really know of a REAL Museum only collectors. I'm I right in my statement to Jeff?

Seems Jeff remember's the square nose "Bull Nose" Sid. of Bob Todd. He seemed to think that Bob did pretty well in BSH in 1962, in Guntersville, but he didn't think he'd won. I told him, "No Vern Kargus won "B" Hydro in 1962 with Monty Gibson second. Now, I remember Monty's prop because it was my best CU wheel. It was a Louie Bauman Kamic, that had made its was to Smith. Gibson ran a 1:1....For several reasons.

Monty and his father, in the spring of '62, were in a deadly car crash on the way to a race in Arizona. The accident resulted in Monty's dad's death. Monty was broken up very badly and wasn't expected to live. He had no living family, when he was released from the hospital, he moved in with us.

The accident had happend after he'd ordered a new 1962 Sid, and I want to say "SHORT SPONSON". His old Sid, the one we ran at the Kilos in the fall of '61, was what I called a '59 Sid, as it had a tapered cockpit with the low cowling. The '59 Sid, had like a 1/2 tunnel in the bottom and the bottom was actually made out of four pieces of plywood...

The new, '62 Sid that Monty had was a flat bottom and PROBABLY should have used a sponson fin, but my dad had been selling Sids for Sid and Mickey, and he didn't think A-B hydros needed a fin, as Jeff Fritz had won "B" hydro in '61 without a fin. The air traps went full length, but the last 9-10 of trap was even with the bottom. (The rear corner acted as a fin and I added this corner to my old Sid, as my brother's new Sid had the same traps on a C-D hydro).

Only a "DUMB" kid, recovering from life threatening injuries, probably could have run a 1962 Sid, no fin, with 1:1 gears, and almost win the Nationals...when guys like Vern Kargus were at the top of their game...and defending "B" Hydro Champion, Jeff Fritz, was 4th with Bob Tod or Todd, maybe third...

Jeff Fritz finished third in "A" hydro with a 1962 SHORT SPONSON "A" only boat. I don't really know when Sid made SHORT SPONSON boats...But Jimbo's "D" Hydro was the first Short Sponson I ever saw, and his boat was new in late 1963 or early '64.

I bought my last Sid "D" hydro from Stan Armstrong at Beaver Falls, PA, at the 1965 Nationals, it was like Jimbo's (11 foot, not 10' 6") but had "LONG" sponsons...(about 3 inches longer)...

From what I remember, few could make the corners with a Short Sponson Sid..They were rockets off the corner, great up top...just the corners.

I had Ted may's 1961 Sid, and witha "D" it would go 72 MPH, my new 11 foot Armstrong Sid, would run 76...with a "D" Runabout wheel...until I blew that motor...

So, bottom Line ....With Monty living with us, we never really thought he'd be able to race at the Nationals...So, we never considered getting him gears and props.

ADD: Smittythewelder: "Including Mike Raich, who set a competition record, and Tom O'Neal". I may be wrong here. But Mike Raich and Tom O'Neal Sid were NOT short sponson Sids. Seems I saw them run at the 1960 Beloit Nationals. They are the ones that I Claim hurt CAB OVER RACING as their Sid Crafts were so much faster that any "MONKEY ON A STICK" Cabover...But cab over could get over rough water and they were fun and EASY, per se, to drive...

Seems, I have this memory in my mind of Mike Raich (Seemed they called him RASH in Beloit...) had a light blue decked Sid with the dark wood Sid used in the earier boats. Seems like he got a first turn wreck and ripped the inside sponson off but he ran the whole first heat with like no sponson fin and really no sponson, just a deck flapping in the wind...andIt seems he may have finsihed second tow Wild Bill Holloway from Michigan, running a Sid with no sponson fin...tunnel bottoms didn't need fins was the work on the steet...

Seems Tom O'Neal won the second heat....But Holloway won as Raich didn't make it back out for the second heat...The 1960 Nationals were the only time I saw Mike and Tom run, but I follwed them in the Proepller Magazine and knew they broke several "D" records which didn't surpise me.. My "facts" from Beloit, 1960, 46 years ago, may be anything but true...but I will bet, neither were short sponson Sid Carfts.....

ADD: Tom O'Neal and Mike Raich...They both had white 55-H's, call '58 55-H's and I was thinking at the time maybe they had something special in those blocks, as we had just built a "Three Screw" port cover block, same as the '58 55-H's had, and my dad was so "High" on this motor he sent it to Beloit without us ever testing it... I won the first heat, and lead the five restarts in "DU"... Once we got home, we realized these blocks were no real secret.....So, I don't know why O'Neal and Raich were so fast except they did have Sid Craft boats when few had them....

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I talked to Jeff Fritz today. (1961 "B" Stock Hydro National Champion).Jeff has two KG-4s, two 20-Hs and and a 30-H. He also has an "A", "B" and "C-D" Hydro... He was hoping there was a REAL museum that might want these. I told him, I didn't really know of a REAL Museum only collectors. I'm I right in my statement to Jeff?

Seems Jeff remember's the square nose "Bull Nose" Sid. of Bob Todd. He seemed to think that Bob did pretty well in BSH in 1962, in Guntersville, but he didn't think he'd won. I told him, "No Vern Kargus won "B" Hydro in 1962 with Monty Gibson second. Now, I remember Monty's prop because it was my best CU wheel. It was a Louie Bauman Kamic, that had made its was to Smith. Gibson ran a 1:1....For several reasons.

Monty and his father, in the spring of '62, were in a deadly car crash on the way to a race in Arizona. The accident resulted in Monty's dad's death. Monty was broken up very badly and wasn't expected to live. He had no living family, when he was released from the hospital, he moved in with us.

The accident had happend after he'd ordered a new 1962 Sid, and I want to say "SHORT SPONSON". His old Sid, the one we ran at the Kilos in the fall of '61, was what I called a '59 Sid, as it had a tapered cockpit with the low cowling. The '59 Sid, had like a 1/2 tunnel in the bottom and the bottom was actually made out of four pieces of plywood...

The new, '62 Sid that Monty had was a flat bottom and PROBABLY should have used a sponson fin, but my dad had been selling Sids for Sid and Mickey, and he didn't think A-B hydros needed a fin, as Jeff Fritz had won "B" hydro in '61 without a fin. The air traps went full length, but the last 9-10 of trap was even with the bottom. (The rear corner acted as a fin and I added this corner to my old Sid, as my brother's new Sid had the same traps on a C-D hydro).

Only a "DUMB" kid, recovering from life threatening injuries, probably could have run a 1962 Sid, no fin, with 1:1 gears, and almost win the Nationals...when guys like Vern Kargus were at the top of their game...and defending "B" Hydro Champion, Jeff Fritz, was 4th with Bob Tod or Todd, maybe third...

Jeff Fritz finished third in "A" hydro with a 1962 SHORT SPONSON "A" only boat. I don't really know when Sid made SHORT SPONSON boats...But Jimbo's "D" Hydro was the first Short Sponson I ever saw, and his boat was new in late 1963 or early '64.

I bought my last Sid "D" hydro from Stan Armstrong at Beaver Falls, PA, at the 1965 Nationals, it was like Jimbo's (11 foot, not 10' 6") but had "LONG" sponsons...(about 3 inches longer)...

From what I remember, few could make the corners with a Short Sponson Sid..They were rockets off the corner, great up top...just the corners.

I had Ted may's 1961 Sid, and witha "D" it would go 72 MPH, my new 11 foot Armstrong Sid, would run 76...with a "D" Runabout wheel...until I blew that motor...

So, bottom Line ....With Monty living with us, we never really thought he'd be able to race at the Nationals...So, we never considered getting him gears and props.

ADD: Smittythewelder: "Including Mike Raich, who set a competition record, and Tom O'Neal". I may be wrong here. But Mike Raich and Tom O'Neal Sid were NOT short sponson Sids. Seems I saw them run at the 1960 Beloit Nationals. They are the ones that I Claim hurt CAB OVER RACING as their Sid Crafts were so much faster that any "MONKEY ON A STICK" Cabover...But cab over could get over rough water and they were fun and EASY, per se, to drive...

Seems, I have this memory in my mind of Mike Raich (Seemed they called him RASH in Beloit...) had a light blue decked Sid with the dark wood Sid used in the earier boats. Seems like he got a first turn wreck and ripped the inside sponson off but he ran the whole first heat with like no sponson fin and really no sponson, just a deck flapping in the wind...andIt seems he may have finsihed second tow Wild Bill Holloway from Michigan, running a Sid with no sponson fin...tunnel bottoms didn't need fins was the work on the steet...

Seems Tom O'Neal won the second heat....But Holloway won as Raich didn't make it back out for the second heat...The 1960 Nationals were the only time I saw Mike and Tom run, but I follwed them in the Proepller Magazine and knew they broke several "D" records which didn't surpise me.. My "facts" from Beloit, 1960, 46 years ago, may be anything but true...but I will bet, neither were short sponson Sid Carfts.....

ADD: Tom O'Neal and Mike Raich...They both had white 55-H's, call '58 55-H's and I was thinking at the time maybe they had something special in those blocks, as we had just built a "Three Screw" port cover block, same as the '58 55-H's had, and my dad was so "High" on this motor he sent it to Beloit without us ever testing it... I won the first heat, and lead the five restarts in "DU"... Once we got home, we realized these blocks were no real secret.....So, I don't know why O'Neal and Raich were so fast except they did have Sid Craft boats when few had them....

Actually Smitty, Bob Okner from NJ as I was at the time, won DSH. I finshed with 2 2nds. in CSH only to get beat by Stan Arnstrong with a 1st & a 3rd. I finished 2nd in the 1st heat to Don Christie who borrowed Charlie Piper's padded "C" block. Charlie hadn't qualified. We were pitted down towards the dam with the Region 7 guys. Between heats I asked my dad where Dick O'Dea finished in the first heat. He said 3rd, or at least when he made the turn where we were pitted. So in the 2nd heat I had a miserable start and through the rougher water towards the bridge, I worked my way up to second and did what you shouldn't do in a nationals race, figured Stan had a 1st & 4th and me with 2 seconds should have won. I was being congratulated in inspection when we learned that Stan had beaten O'Dea across the finish line.

Bob Okner's boat and mine were identical, as in those years they were "C-D's". When Sid norrowed the boats that's when he made the 11' "D" & 10'6" "C". THe short Sponson boat came later.

I don't agree with Ron's statement that the short sponson boats were faster through the turns. I never liked them & always ran the conventional spon length. I culd out turn those with short sponsons as if they cranked in hard, the sposon would catch. Mine didn't. But Ron is correct about no fins. Sid always told us at least until I began running "C" that because of the chine angles, you didn't need a fin. Sponson fins were not regularly used between 56 - 57 out east. If I had had a fin, I wouldn't have been thrown out in the next to the last lap leading Ed Sonaras' hot rod at the 56 Cambridge nationals.