Thread: An Amazing Story

  1. #81
    Team Member Jeff Lytle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonHill
    Master Oil, your pictures are WONDERFUL....God, I think of all the work to keep those Konigs going...it is hard to believe how much we must have loved racing...
    I will always remember the sounds and smells of the Alky pits in my pre-teen years before self energized CD ignition came standard on the Konig engines.................The smell of quick start, the tap, tap, tapping of someone setting points using a timing buzz box, the smell of the inside of a trailer, the tell tale smell of a Gentex..........Dumb as it sounds......I would wipe my finger in the stinger of a pipe just to get closer to that smell. I remember after the season was over, not wanting to wash a jacket or 2 cause' it would still have a hint of alky/castor ................Then I discovered GIRLS!!

  2. #82
    Team Member Miss BK's Avatar
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    The speed factor is only one slice of the pie when discussing boat racing safety. It's silly to give an arbitrary number and say "Below 100 mph is ok".
    Just in the few decades I've been involved in boat racing, dozens upon dozens of drivers have lost their lives running a lot slower than that.

    The latest fatality at DePue dealt not with speed alone, but with direct impact with another boat. 70mph could have produced the same result. That's a big part of what capsules were built for - deflecting impacts with other boats - not just blowovers or high speed single boat crashes.

    I remember in Havasu in the 80's when a V-bottom going into a turn slid up on top of another V-bottom and broke the drivers neck. They were probably running less than 65mph at the time.

    I was hurt pretty badly at less than 80 when another boat slammed into my side. Just a few feet difference and I might not have been here at all. That experience was enough for me to never race again. And it wasn't just the pain and loss of work that caused me to think twice about racing, but physical therapy bills are NOT fun to have to worry about either!

    In fact, one year after my wreck, my Mod C running buddy, John Beck, was T-boned at the same race - almost at the same exact spot. He was hit at about 70mph too -- he spun out and suffered a direct hit to the cockpit. Snapped his femur in two places resulting in months of physical therapy. He now races cars.

    That entire class - MOD-C - dwindled down to just a few racers not long afterwards, but not because of capsules. A new class (SST-45) emerged and many of the MOD C drivers who were left went on to run in that **very** popular class.

    This class was made a capsule class in 1989, but it still remained extremely popular, probably due to the availability of brand new motors from OMC.

    It is still popular today - but numbers have been dropping yearly - probably due to the LACK of available motors today.

    I can name a lot of people who aren't in the sport anymore after a death or injury of a friend or injury they suffered themselves. I can look at my Christmas list from those days and see entire racing families who left the sport after a family member got hurt... or worse...

    So while we blame capsules for causing the demise of boat racing, I think we should really do a survey of ex-boat racers from the past few decades and I think you'll find quite a few of them who aren't racing anymore because they decided the risks were too high, or maybe suffered a loss themselves.

    And if you can't keep these old, addicted boat racers in a race boat because of safety issues, just think how hard it would be to attract new ones?

    When looking for ways to improve safety, you have to look at all the issues that cause harm. Capsules were designed to cover multiple issues - impacts with other boats, impacts with the shore, driver hit by his own boat, propeller injuries, body slams & cartwheels from stuffs, broken necks from impact with water - and blowovers, rollovers too. So you can see....speed is just ONE component of many.

    Improving safety is a good thing; in every sport.
    Last edited by Miss BK; 08-30-2006 at 04:55 PM.

  3. #83
    David_L6
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver
    I believe that the most danger in open outboard racing exists during milling
    Yes, both before and after the heat. I have had close calls both before and after, but the only time I've ever been hit was after. That driver wasn't paying attention to what was going on around him, couldn't see very well, and just turned into me. Luckily I've never hit anyone while milling. The only time I came close was before. We were both looking at/for the clock. I consider it that I almost hit the other boat rather than the other way around because of my "line" - I was turning into the line of the course and the other boat was going more in a straight line and sort of inline with the front straight. We were all upriver of the second turn and not on the actual race course yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver
    and going into the first turn.
    Need a long run to the first turn. That's one of the reasons that I like to race at Alex. We run a one mile course and with the room we have for milling I can get a looong run at the clock and usually not be in a pack of boats at the first turn.

    Video in this link: http://media.putfile.com/Is-he-going...e-on-the-clock Watch the boat way out there at the beginning of the video that looks like it will be late on the start, but actually start (and finishes) first. Long courses and/or courses with at lot of room for milling off the course but where the clock can be seen usually thin the herd before it gets to the first turn. Too short a run from the clock to the first turn is dangerous.
    Last edited by David_L6; 09-01-2006 at 10:56 AM.

  4. #84
    Team Member Miss BK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lytle
    I will always remember the sounds and smells of the Alky pits in my pre-teen years before self energized CD ignition came standard on the Konig engines.................The smell of quick start, the tap, tap, tapping of someone setting points using a timing buzz box, the smell of the inside of a trailer, the tell tale smell of a Gentex..........Dumb as it sounds......I would wipe my finger in the stinger of a pipe just to get closer to that smell. I remember after the season was over, not wanting to wash a jacket or 2 cause' it would still have a hint of alky/castor ................Then I discovered GIRLS!!
    Jeff -
    I was lucky that stock outboards ran with the alkies back when my brother raced stocks in region 12. I didn't get to touch one, but I can remember always having a big smile when that sweet smell wafted across the pits as they were being launched. I LOVED that smell. I didnt even know what it was.

    My brother stopped racing around 1979, and I quit going to the stock races and instead started going to OPC events. No alkies there.

    Many years went by without experiencing it again.

    So a few years ago I got to go to Constantine, MI --- and when those alkies fired up, my memory of that wonderful odor was refreshed! And that same smile came back on my face! LOVE that smell!

    Val

  5. #85
    David_L6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss BK
    Jeff -
    LOVE that smell!

    Val
    Somethings you never forget!

  6. #86
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    You're right about the speed factor Miss BK. Of 6 accidents I had where the man above was looking out for me, two were around 45 mph and only quick action by the driver saved me. One was a stock driver who reacted quickly to keep from spearing my head with a lower unit, and the other was myself avoiding a motor in the face when a driver turned in front of me. Bill Ellis was hurt very severly in I think C or D Mod hydro. He was testing. And unfortunately there were quite a few drivers hurt while testing on their own and no plan for dealing with it.

    But I think you misunderstand my position on the capsules. Having been out for 25 years, there are a lot of things that went on that I had no knowledge of such as boat setups, speeds, class participation, etc. I don't know which factors contributed most to the drop out of racers. I think a lot of drivers in the faster classes got out just because of the speed and greater potential of harm. As I stated earlier, were I on the racing commission, I probably would have approved of the capsules on 500 & 700. I say "probably" because having never driven one I don't know what it's like. My main concern is getting into trouble by not being able to see every thing going on around you. What I really meant regarding capsules was that I was sorry it cost so much for a capsule boat. There are just a lot of guys out there that can't afford one. Note: Don't you boat builders get the idea that I think you are ripping everyone off on a capsule . I know they take a lot of time and materials, and that stuff is not cheap. And you guys do a good job. I like the look of the capsules. In the end, you got to go with safety.

    P.S. Jeff, Miss BK, David---Maybe ya'll should look into the incense pot with the 20:1 methanol/castor oil blend I mentioned earlier.



  7. #87
    Team Member Miss BK's Avatar
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    I just wonder how much money these guys had to spend on medical bills after being hurt. I know in my case, my medical costs nearly reached the cost of a capsule --- and I didn't even spend the night in a hospital. Phys therapy is incredibly expensive and even good health insurance will only pay for 6-8 sessions. You have to cover the rest.

    In John Becks case, I know that his medical costs from the hospital alone exceeded a capsule cost by more than 20 times.

    But I also know that cost isn't really the only reason people quit when forced to put a capsule in their boats. Capsules aren't so expensive that you can't figure out a way to pay for them. I'm not sure how much they are today for hydros, but I'm going to guess less than $2000 or $3000.

    I was a $4.65 per hour bank teller back in the 80's, and when I crashed my Kober Kat, I borrowed on my parents home equity loan and bought a $2000 Mirage Tom Cat. So I don't buy the excuse that capsules cost too much. In my experience, racers always find a way to buy stuff to keep racing...

    But back in the 80s, I had the same view on capsules that Dick Sherrer did --- I hated the whole thought of being trapped underwater without air. I hated the thought of being restrained while driving. I felt I would not be able to see. I felt I would drown if I crashed in one. And most of all.....I hated change!

    And that's why I didn't start racing again after the capsules were introduced. Dick had plenty of money to put a capsule in his boat - but he still quit for all the reasons above.

    It took years of watching hundreds of flips and crashes and rolls, with everyone coming back to shore with not even a scratch - and hearing stories like Billy Seebold's story of his "easy wreck" before finally coming to the realization that capsules really ARE handy life savers.

    And today, those early capsules have been greatly improved upon --- now drivers usually have onboard air so the drowning worry is much less than before. They all have radios to talk to their "spotters" (often their wives) on land to help with any vision problems. Teams have even learned to have all smooth, soft edges and no bolt ends sticking out anywhere inside the cockpit, to avoid even the smallest injuries. And even the rescue teams are now well adapted to bringing air to an underwater driver, even if he's trapped.

    In OPC, capsules have to have approved latches and approved belts that are all similar in design, to avoid any confusion when the rescue crew comes on board, and to cut down on canopy jams. They all know directly where to go, and practice this dozens of times during the numerous capsule training sessions. Removing a driver becomes second nature.

    They didn't have any of these things when capsules were first introduced.


    But I do see some real problems, relating to design when discussing putting capsules into light weight runabouts an hydros. If you build the capsule too beefy, then the added weight is going to create instability that might actually cause an accident. But if you build the capsule too thin - then you've designed a floating coffin. You certainly dont want to be strapped into something that can't keep an 80 mph boat from piercing through! That's often worse than getting thrown out.

    These issues are all problems that the smaller classes have to deal with. And without giving them increased horsepower, I don't feel a capsule would be the solution for them. Their work on finding a solution is much tougher than the bigger classes.

    But this is why discussion like these should always be encouraged; Someday, someone will come up with the solution.

    PS
    That incense pot idea --- what a great idea! Are you selling them? I'll take one!

  8. #88
    Composite Specialties
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    Hey Wayne,

    Here is my point of view on the capsules from a boat designer and builder.

    I was there back in the mid 90's when the capsule decision was made and I heard from many that the only reason they did not get a capsule was the cost of the boats.

    I sell Pro capsule boats for $8000 and composite cockpit side laydown boats for $4500. Others sell capsules for around $7000 and non-composite cockpit side laydowns for around $3750.

    It does take alot of time to make them both and the cost of material has gone way up since the war took all of the carbon from the public.

    I have also raced a 500cc capsule with radios and I loved it and would do it again. I have wrecked in a 250cc kneeldown at lakeland and the hospital bill alone could have purchased two capsule boats.

    I have been there and learned and will no waver from my prices for composite boats. All I can do is offer the safer method, I cannot make people buy them but I do enjoy researching and making safer methods for everyone, even if it cost more than my competitors.

  9. #89
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    I had thought I heard somewhere that capsule boats ranged from 12K to 15K.
    So I didn't know what I was talking about . But the point you and Miss BK bring up Marc is excellent. Medical costs have gone out of sight and continue to grow alarmingly. My crash in 1975 would probably cost 100K today. I always depended on my own insurance, but for those that don't have any a severe accident could be financially catastrophic.

    I do like your boats Marc, and I think $8,000.00 is very reasonable for what it takes to put something like that together.



  10. #90
    David Weaver David Weaver's Avatar
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    My mother was a physical therapist. I was not allowed to play football, as she took care of all the collage football players in our town!! They were lucky, because the football team picked-up all those expensive bills, I guess. No matter who paid the bills, their knees were ruined for life....

    One should absolutely understand the risks in any sport and be comfortable with insurance or lack of insurance that they carry. And the consequences of having or not having adequate insurance or assets in the event that......

    By the way, this goes for anything bicyles, motorcycles, jet skis, water skiing, snow skiing, snow mobiling, skate boarding, race cars, karts, planes, scuba or anything else that has elements of risk to it. I played water polo for a season in college (D1 even)and loved it. I do not know that I would allow my child to play water polo, if I had children. Concussions, busted spleens, ruptured testicles (not kidding).....perhaps they could just swim.

    Mark's ideas (and others) will probably become requirements in the future. I would like to see them phased in over a period of time that will not materially damage participation. But this is the direction to head. Capsules have been great in accidents for the PRO's. Only one or two really scarey moments that I recall. Of course, there is only 1 capsule heat for every 12-15 open class heats run, so the chances of any accident occuring are statistcally less.

    At the end of the day, there is no better safety device than one's brain and left hand (or foot for capsules).

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