C, D Alky Deflectors - Magneto with belt idler pulley?

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

I used to swallow my tongue at what newer model Merc solid state ignitions cost over the years but being in stock outboard for so long insulated one to magnetos, be they flywheel 20H, Fairbanks Morse for KG9, 40H, 30H and 55H and then the Merc P4s afterward, so all that new stuff though around by then and onward had no applications to stock racing engines. Magnetos never got significantly pricier unless you were starving for one and the seller knew it. Now they are anything from near giveaway to seller greed extreme. So are the Merc Thunderbolt and Lightening systems and they can be modified to run on 2 RC 7.5 volt stick batteries instead of a 12 volt or more dryland lead/acid cell by changing the coil(s) out with updated automotive stuff that costs peanuts by marine comparisson. Merc has gone the 4 stroke route, so now it is increasingly so that any money for old technology is better than no cash flow at all, letting the part gather dust until some looker comes along which could be years and is decreasing exponentially as the years go on. The reason more people use FM and P4 magnetos on Merc 4s is that they are mechanical, very well understood and trouble free in terms of value for effort and dollar spent. I suppose some day those that understood mechanical magnetos will all go to the happy hunting ground and the only thing understood will be the solid state. We are not there yet and depending where you are and what you know that time is a long way coming. I got more than a dozen magnetos and some battery/CD Merc ignitions left over from Alky Loopers and Deflectors but they now sit until the magnetos are totally wasted or I am and no one else here wants them. The same exist every where and even there. It depends on what you want to do or believe in?

[Bob Rusnak]

Bob, what region do you race in ?
I live in KC Mo.area and go to some NBRA races,i've only seen a couple of non mag ignitions. It seems as though some sure have problems with mags.

I wonder about cost , i've heard some elect. ignitions are pricey.
Thanks for the pics.
Richard

I am in Region 2 on Long Island. My son Don is in Wertern Pa. and races the D Mods. There are several races in Region 2 that we can race. I have 4 or 5 of these Merc Lightning Ignitions. They are not all that hard to find as there were many of these Merc 500 engines made from the mid 1970's. I usually try to grab as many of these engines as I can to get the crankshafts and rods from them. Not shure of the cost of new parts (if available) as I never had to buy anything. I carry a spare pack, coil and distributor to every race but never had to replace anything. So far so good with the belts. Still on the same one....Bob N-96

[RichardKCMo]

Thanks Bob, i've only seen 2 motors without mags in several yrs. here and it seems pretty labor intensive to keep them running.
I know one dude had like 8 mags at a race this yr.

One of the fellas here was fooling with stock 44s to run in D mod but that was before this tohatsu thing , that was the last i seen this ign. system.
RichardKCMo

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

You got me thinking about that last Lightning setup I have gathering dust on the shelf. Because your doing it, I am going to clean it up and try it again but I will definitely use the added belt tensioner pulley in any case just to play it self with belts. I hear mag belts for Mercs are over $30 bux new and I still got quite a few but why waste them. Have you ever tried to find out what the Lightnings magnetic drag costs in terms of engine horsepower consumption? The Merc P4 is supposedly under 2% when your at peak rpm, what could the Lightning be?

Running a distributor/batter powered ignition system on 2 RC 7.5 volt battery sticks in series firing a Honda auto coil at 30,000KV output has next to no drag because its a total loss voltage system will last about 30 minutes clear at 14 volts. Recharges with a flash charger in less than 30 minutes. With those its just bearing drag and almost un-measurable.

I keep all the magnetos and any more I get immediate overhaul and tagging. A friend of mine came over with a really clean and nice in condition Fairbanks Morse so I quickly relieved him of it with a refreshed Merc P4 off the shelf because the FMs look like similar to a Lucas but are a lot better than the Anzani's Lucas magnetos by every stretch of the imagination! Gawd they are awful but look on all the stuff they put Lucas electrics on over the years!

[Bob Rusnak]

You got me thinking about that last Lightning setup I have gathering dust on the shelf. Because your doing it, I am going to clean it up and try it again but I will definitely use the added belt tensioner pulley in any case just to play it self with belts. I hear mag belts for Mercs are over $30 bux new and I still got quite a few but why waste them. Have you ever tried to find out what the Lightnings magnetic drag costs in terms of engine horsepower consumption? The Merc P4 is supposedly under 2% when your at peak rpm, what could the Lightning be?

Running a distributor/batter powered ignition system on 2 RC 7.5 volt battery sticks in series firing a Honda auto coil at 30,000KV output has next to no drag because its a total loss voltage system will last about 30 minutes clear at 14 volts. Recharges with a flash charger in less than 30 minutes. With those its just bearing drag and almost un-measurabl
I keep all the magnetos and any more I get immediate overhaul and tagging. A friend of mine came over with a really clean and nice in condition Fairbanks Morse so I quickly relieved him of it with a refreshed Merc P4 off the shelf because the FMs look like similar to a Lucas but are a lot better than the Anzani's Lucas magnetos by every stretch of the imagination! Gawd they are awful but look on all the stuff they put Lucas electrics on over the years!

Keep me informed if you have luck with the Energizer system. I guess it does grab some HP from the engine but do not know how much. Right now I am looking for reliablity in the system. The Magnito's with the points work real well but you have to be on top of the point's. They must be clean and gapped correctly. The battery Thunderbolt system is real good and draws no HP from the engine. I have used it in the past on Loopers and a FA Konig with great sucess. The weak link is the battery and have missed a few races due to an undercharged battery. Don is going to run the D mod in Franklyn PA next week so we will see if the Lightning system performes well again.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

I was out there today just to get my grand daughter her BMX. I went over to the shelve with all the ignition stuff on it with that Lightning engergizer/distributor on the end of the shelf. I gave it a twist and there is a real sharp resistance to it, so I went to its left and twisted the Merc P4 and it is just less than half, then the far left had the Fairbanks Morse for Merc 4 cylinder mags and they were just a little less than the Merc P4!

Its goes without saying much that you got to watch the points gaps, point condition as well as that of the condenser and general cleanliness in there because that grease felt slowly makes a mess anyway. What is remarkable these days as the plastics get older, I am finding more magnetos being abandoned because their replacers or marine overhaulers never put a dab of grease on the point pivot post making the bakelite hole dry out oval and the points go outa wack. Their explanation was probably that the engine was getting old.

Some users and racers were getting missing sounds out of the engine in what was an apparently in good order and even overhauled magneto only to find that no one spotted the rotor problems. rotors come in about 4 colors so far and had burned through. The spark was gounding through the rotor right into the top of the rotor shaft holding it. Looks like a blueish powder on the shaft and in the rotors splines. People I know gave up on their fishing Mercs just because it was old and would not run anymore???? No, the marine dealers wanted to sell newer engines! Its funny when they tell me, I can have the magnetos but don't let it be known where you got them from. People would talk if they knew some people could actually overhaul, fix and maintain them.

You get funny looks from people with big money V-6 power anything STV and the such being smoked by some old looking Merc with no flywheel, gawd awful noisey pipes using a magneto and they didn't look like a Joe Hunt or a Vertex either!!

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

I have and seen for Merc P4 Magnetoa - red, yellow-orange, grey and white rotors with brass leads on them. Of the 3 magnetos I just got last Friday, one had a black plastic rotor and that is a first time for me ever seeing a black one.

I cleaned up and mounted the Merc 500 Lightning system in a test frame I made out of an old drill press stand and drive and got it cranking an honest 30,000 KV but I had to hand kick the system because the Lightning energizer had so much drag it made the little drive motor growl to start it moving, so I helped it with a push. That drive motor is perfectly fine for starting, rotating for setting up and testing the Fairbanks Morse FMs for Merc or the Merc P4s. I kept the big coil on it though I have a couple of coild left over from an older Merc 25SS. I am going to throw a Honda performance automotive coil on it and see what happens.