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Thread: An Amazing Story: Part 2

  1. #491
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    Here are a few random pics from qualifying. A couple of the guys I don't know. Whether Sunday finals were cancelled because of weather or drivers packing up, I can't remember. We packed up. Word was put out for clubs to put up a bid for the nationals somewhere else.
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  2. #492
    Team Member Pete Nydahl's Avatar
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    Default 2 Finals

    There were two finals run at LaCrosse in 1980. C Service hydro,won by Pete Hellsten and I won the Formula 350 hydro

  3. #493
    Team Member ProHydroRacer's Avatar
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    Default Formula 350

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Nydahl View Post
    There were two finals run at LaCrosse in 1980. C Service hydro,won by Pete Hellsten and I won the Formula 350 hydro
    That is right the class was called Formula 350 not RB at the time.

  4. #494
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    Thanks Pete. I never got many photos of your Dad Ray, expecially since we often ran in the same heats. Here is one. Not too good, but better than nothing.
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  5. #495
    Team Member Master Oil Racing Team's Avatar
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    Two days later we were home. A long time gone. After I got to the office Ralph Donald called. He got a bid from Yelm to host the 1100 hydro and runabout classes, and one from Acworth for the remaining events on the Pro Nationals calendar. I had previously mentioned a while back that Yelm was awarded the 1100 events and I had mistakenly thought they had been awarded separately as our 700hydro nationals at Dayton. I was wrong. It happened because of the LaCrosse disaster.

    August 26 I got a lot of calls. Jim McKean called about the upcoming Waco kilos, Tim Butts called about motor/hull changes for the OD North American Championships to be held at Acworth and Greg Hall called. I didn't write down where he was racing, but it could have been in Italy. A pleasure boat pulled out and Greg nosed his hydro in at 100 mph. He walked away from it although his boat completely disintegrated. He went in feet first. He also told me that South African driver Tom Jones retired and an Italian driver was killed, but he didn't say who.

    Over the next few days I sent letters to the Pro UIM Affairs Commissioners, talked to Louis Williams, OF Christner and Ralph Donald about the nationals and Ralph had some interesting proposals for the Knoxville, Tennessee World's Fair in 1982 and some world championship classes. He would be leaving for Berlin the following week and was going to submit bids for all classes OA-OE in the hopes we would get one or more.



  6. #496
    Team Member Jeff Lytle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Oil Racing Team View Post
    Greg Hall called. I didn't write down where he was racing, but it could have been in Italy. A pleasure boat pulled out and Greg nosed his hydro in at 100 mph. He walked away from it although his boat completely disintegrated. He went in feet first.
    I was at that race the day Greg stuffed his 500H, it happened at a race in Sydenham Ontario Canada, a favorite place for the Canadian Formula Outboard Division to run.
    He was leading, flying and pushing hard knowing there were 700's behind him when it happened.........It looked really bad from the beach where I was standing, and the rescue boats was on the move as a stuff was as serious as it gets.

    The ambulance was located in the same area where we were pitted, so when the mayday call went out, we just stood there waiting for all the other drivers to come and form the hand in hand line so the ambulance could get to the road without crouds getting in the way. In all my years of racing, I had been to my fair share of calls like that, but when it's a friend of yours........Well, you all know how I was feeling.

    The rescue boat had picked up Greg, and was on it's way full speed to the beach. We all sttod there in our lifeline with our hearts in our mouths waiting. It wasn't untill the boat came right to the beach, we saw that Greg was concious, and sitting up in the boat with his helmet off. He appeared to be OK and actually stepped out of the patrol boat on his own, and in seconds, he was surrounded by his friends who were relieved he was OK.

    When the boat (or what was left of it) was towed back into shore, I noticed that the carbs were still wide open, and the pipes were pulled up all the way.........he was balls to the wall when things came to a sudden stop.

    Vic Waring was the Referee of the day, and he arrived then. The judges stand / clock was located on a barge kind of like DePue, so it meant that Vic had jumped in a boat and rushed over to see the status of Greg as well. Vic was such a dominant presence wherever he went, that the crowds of well wishers and friends just parted ways and let him through to see Greg who was still soaking wet from head to toe. He was wearing his powder blue Hinchman drivers suit, and Vic immediatly noticed that there was red appearing from aroung Greg's waist area. Greg explained to Vic that it was his bathing suit showing through his drivers suit, but that wasn't good enough for Vic.........He asked Greg to strip the drivers suit off so he could see for himself that everything was OK. He was fine............WHEW!!!!

    A friend of mine took a B/W picture of Greg posing with what was left of his Aerowing on the beach that day. There he stood with a big Greg grin, wearing his red swimsuit, holding one of the sponsons that had been torn off in one hand, and a can of Coke in the other. I wish I still had the pic to share with you all, it was a classic.

    The last time I was in Florida, I spoke to Greg on the phone. He still has a copy of the pic, and many others he could share with us here. He was having some issues on posting pictures, but I notice he hasn't been around here for quite awhile. Maybe I could give you his number Wayne, and you could give him a little shove Baldwin style!
    Last edited by Jeff Lytle; 10-01-2008 at 10:26 AM.

  7. #497
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    Default clarification on the RB and Formula 350 Classes

    There seems to be some confusion about Formula 350 and the RB Class. The only real common ground between the two is that the Yamato Model 80 327CC engine run in Japan as an engine used on the paramutual betting circut, was THE engine that the Formula 350 class was built around and the only legal engine for that class. There were some very specific rules governing the class, among them a claiming rule where anyones engine could be bought by any other competitor (to prevent blueprinting or make it very costly if done) and a 5 year eligibility rule for drivers in the class, so as to prevent "professional" drivers for staying in and dominating the class, or coming from other categories and competing against our "rookies/beginners" Reasoning behind the 5 year rule was that the class was designed as a "starter" class for the PRO Category specifically, and we did not want drivers to stay there forever, but go on to other PRO classes. This also mitigated some of the initial problems getting the motor approved by the PRO membership, as it was a "stock" motor, and some of the die hard "alky" drivers of the day did not want a "gas burner" on the race course at a PRO race.

    The RB class was a completely seperate entity, and did not come into existence until about 5 years after Formula 350 started. The reason for RB was to allow those who had started in Formula 350 to go on to another class in the PRO division that was faster, burned alcohol, and had very few restrictions except for a 25MM carb dimension, which was the size of the venturi in the stock Model 80 carb, hence the class name RB or "Restricted B class, meaning the restricted crankcase or carb venturi opening of 25.4MM or 1 inch. Also an expansion chamber or underwater type exaust had to be used so as to keep noise down, which was becoming an objection at some race sites. Because of the speed differential at the time, between F350 and 250CC, we felt we were going to loose some drivers to other categories if we did not have a class between. Pretty much every thing else was "free", and the motor could be modified as the owner saw fit. The reason for the class was to provide a way for existing participants to use the same motor they had been running in Formula 350, and with a minimum of cost because they already had an engine to modify, go on to a faster class. The speed differential between 250 and F350 at that time was about 20 MPH and it was felt by a majority of the commission that this would provide a good next step as far as speed, (10 MPH or so) and also in most cases allow the same boat, or a couple of years old 250 boat to be used at minimum cost.

    At the same time the rules were drawn up for RB using the Model 80 as the BASELINE engine insofar as spec was concerned, other motors were also legalized, including but not limited to the FA Konigs, other 350 PRO motors with carb restrictors, Quincy B flatheads, and many others using a carb restrictor formula to try to keep the performance of all equal and balanced against the Model 80, which again was the BASELINE engine. The spec first called for maximum 2 cylinder, alternate firing engines, but was later expanded to include for example the 350CC 4 cyl Konig with one carb. I think one of this type engine was built and tried in the class, or at least that is all I ever saw, but Harry Zak thought it had lots of potental, but just never fooled with one. This formula worked well for a number of years, and then as will happen, politics crept in to the committee charged with maintaining equity in the class, and the process became political and in the process, eliminated many engines that had been competitive. Eventually it became a class where one engine dominated and then, in my opinion, those same politics became the "straw that broke the camels back" and killed the class, because it became a class that was dominated by one engine only, with the orginal intent of the Model 80 being the baseline going by the wayside, even though that the Model 80 WAS the baseline being plainly stated in the rules. The engine that then became dominant was a much more modern design, designed probably 20 years after the Model 80 and built in very limited quantities so they were never widely availiable to the public as was the Model 80, and at a much higher price.

    I feel pretty qualified to relate the above, as I was on the PRO Commission at the time, and served on both the committees that wrote the rules for the two classes, even though they came about five years apart. I was also heavily involved in participation in the class, and at over a 4-5 year time held most if not all of the records, both competition and Kilo that were set with engines built by Harry Pasturczak. The kilo record set in the mid 80's with one of his engines has never been broken, and is slightly in excess of 91 MPH set with an engine with one 25MM carb on it. Further modifications were made on an engine that was enlarged to the full 350CC allowed in the class, but the additional RPM generated by that engine caused vibrations so bad that tower housings could not be held together at top RPM. That problem, in concert with Harrys death about the same time frame, basically ended development of the Model 80 as a viable engine for the class, and it was replaced in USTS with the 125 Hydro class because we were not able to draw sufficient numbers to put on a race.

    The Model 80 certainly was the basis for both classes, but in entirely different configurations in the seperate classes, and five years apart. Formula 350 continued on as a strictly stock class in the PRO division for a few more years, and certainly did what it was supposed to do insofar as bringing new drivers into the sport of PRO racing. Many of the winners of today's USTS races, first started in F350 in the mid 70's time frame, so it served it's purpose very well.

  8. #498
    Team Member Gene East's Avatar
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    Bill Van was a key player in the RB Class and someone I consider a friend of long standing.

    I had been away from boat racing for probably 20 years and Bill was winding down his racing career.

    I took my son, Josh and my daughter Emily to the MOD Championships at Creve Couer Lake (St. Louis).

    Bill was there with a for sale sign on his trailer.

    Josh was about 15 years old at the time. He played baseball, soccer and hockey.

    Bill seemed interested in Josh's competitive nature and hinted that he might be interested in having some young guy drive his boats rather than selling them.

    BILL NEVER OFFERED HIM A RIDE, but when we got home Josh told his mother, "Guess what Mom". "One of Dad's buddies wants ME to drive his boats for him"!

    S**T hit the fan!

  9. #499
    David_L6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Van Steenwyk View Post
    The kilo record set in the mid 80's with one of his engines has never been broken, and is slightly in excess of 91 MPH....
    I heard that the guy that set that record was told by his wife that he had just ruined the class when he set the record that high.....

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    Default "ruining the class"

    David:

    I remember someone making that comment at the time, but since that has been 20+ years ago I don't remember who it was. I asked Eileen if she made that comment and she said she did not remember making it. She did say she might have said something to the effect, "you set the bar really high" or some such, but we don't remember her specifically making it to the effect " you have ruined the class". Since we have been married now in a couple of weeks, 35 years, and I know her pretty well, I have a tendency to take her at her word. You can maybe figure that is why we are still married, or anything else you want, but I believe her when she says SHE didn't say it.

    Just as Gerry Waldman did not "ruin" the D Hydro class when he set the Kilo record for that class at Alex, which has been covered thoroughly in another thread on this website recently, I don't think I did anything harmful to RB either. Like Waldman stated about his D record being set with basically a competition setup, the RB record I set was also not, by any stretch of the imagination, out of the ordinary insofar as setup was concerned.. The lower unit, prop, gear ratio, basic setup, etc., were all what I ran in competition for several years and set those records with also. I did have another prop and a 1-1 lower unit that I planned on running but time constraints and the wind coming up put a stop to any further runs. The Kilo's that year were a popular event and there were quite a few boats to run thru, and I did not get to run until about 10:00 in the morning after waiting at the site from 4:30 AM on. By the time I would have been able to run again it probably would have been early to mid-afternoon and I felt there was not a lot to be gained by another run as the record had been upped by about 10 MPH from where it previously was. I opted to put the other equipment and knowledge I had about the potential away for another time. It never became neccessary, as that record is till in effect.

    There was really nothing unusual about my boat/motor used for the Kilo versus competition, except for a little different transom height and tuck under, and a sponson fin that could be raised after the boat was under way. Most of the success I had was due to really good boats built by Ken Krier and partially of my design, props from Wiatrowski and Floyd Hopkins, and certainly the engine attention by Harry Pasturczak. Just like Waldman, I was accused of having engines not avabilable to anyone else, that Harry built. Nothing could be further from the truth. Harry did use my engines as somewhat testbeds, trying, with my full approval, things on them that someone else did not want to either pay for, or porting done that they did not think would work, or other modifications that for whatever reason, others did not agree with. I had complete confidence in him, based on 15 years previous experience, and he knew far, far, more than I or a lot of others also, what might have a beneficial gain for engines. He was not always right, but the odds much, much, favored letting him do what he thought would work. For an example, on another thread, I have explained his practice of enlarging crankcase volume, instead of reducing it, which was the conventional wisdom before and since that time. That might possibly not work on an engine with excess carburation, but on the restricted Model 80 it helped greatly. That record, and the others, were far more than a one person effort. The folks listed above contributed greatly to whatever success I enjoyed in the class and boat racing in general. Both Eileen and I are very grateful for the experiences we had and the friends we made over that time period. Other than the politics on the RB technical committee mentioned earlier, it is a part of our life we will always remember fondly.

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