Qunicy Loopers FC64 FG52 FC62

[fbref5269]

hi all,

i thought it might be a good time to tell everyone where the parts have been coming from. as you can see from roger's posting and mine some of the parts are history. i think i'm going to make a lamp out of my crank. here's the break down so far:

needle bearings for crank and piston: mercury, yes they still make them and they are not too bad as far as cost. .17 per for thre crank bearings and .15 for the piston. my merc dealer gave me a discount since i bought a bunch.

roller bearings: napa auto, yup the auto store. they even had the upper and lower crank bearings on the shelf. be sure to ask them if they can do better on the price. they will.

seals: napa again.

rods: ebay has several sellers who sell parts all the time. you can send them a message on one of the parts they are selling and they will respond. the rods come from gunter marine sales in ft worth texas. i bought several things from him and he's a great guy.

crank shaft: gunter marine. like mark75h saod there are a lot of d cranks out there.

the no longer avaivable parts from mercury: call the dealer and have them send you a list of which dealers still have these parts. they are drying up though.

pistons: richard ollhoff. great guy!!!!! his number has been posted on this thread by paul.

gen 3 stacks: richard ollhoff again.

hiope this is of some hellp to those thinking about jumping into a project like this. come on in, the waters fine!!!!

now back to polishing!!!!

frank

[Mark75H]

Look down inside the exhaust hole on top of the unit and see if you don't see one or two allen head screws. These bolt all the way into the cone nut assemble. Some of these "LINKS" units have threaded conenut assemblies in addition to the allen head bolts. Some are not threaded and will just slide out after the bolts are removed. Hope your gears are good. The pinion gear is pressed on the driveshaft and is a bear to change. Best I can tell the driveshaft needle bearings are not available anywhere but I have found a substitute. Good luck.

Good advice - I forgot the 1960-61 Konigs had the bolted in cones.

Greg have you found many rear load Konigs with significantly worn gears? I have 3 of them and all 3 seem perfect - did I get lucky?

Here's the set up of a bolted in Konig tailcone:

[mac19f]

I've got a half dozen of these units and I have found the gears to be anywhere from perfect to severely worn and broken teeth. Since I don't know the history of how each unit was run I can't say why the difference. Could be as simple as type of lubrication. There were two different sizes of these units although the look almost identical. And there were a variety of gear ratios. The smaller unit was used on all the Konigs of the era except the "D"engines. The gear ratio was different depending on the size of the engine. The "D" engines used the larger unit and normally ran the 1:1 ratio gears to handle the horsepower. If someone ran the lower ratio gears on the big engine that could account for the severe wear and tooth breakage. I ran a 12:15 Konig unit on my Merc "Cmod" for several years and saw no detectable wear in the gears.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

We ran 15:16 on the C and D Konig and 1:1 on the F. Because each tooth engages the same one around each time on the 1:1's it was our experience that a wear pattern could develope quicker and cause failure. This was especially true due to the greater power of these engines.

On the A's and B's we ran 12:15. Then at some point in the 70's Dieter went to 12:14 for some reason. It was OK for the B's, but it was really tough to reprop the A's to get out of the pits and still have good speed and acceleration. A lot of people went scrounging around to find old 12:15's.

As far as differenence in wear, you're right about lubrication. That is probably the leading factor, although if a unit starts getting water getting inside that can also create problems.

I sometimes think there were as many formulas and different ideas on lubrication as there were drivers in the pits. I have seen people run nothing but Lubriplate 90, to a mixture of 90 wt gear oil with teflon and STP, to all sorts in between. When we started we were told that Hypoid 90 with graphite was the way to go. I think somewhere along the way we tried different stuff, but it was always based on a heavier viscosity petroleum base grease with different additives. We lost many races with the D and F because of a blown unit in one heat. We drained oil between heats and it would come out dark gray, stinking and foamy. And when it was almost finished draining it looked like a thin film with metalflake draining into the pan. It went into the lower unit a clear golden color, but 5 or 6 minutes of racing did that to it. And many times there was pressure that released when the plug was taken out.

It was Tim Butts that got us to using a much lower viscosity oil. In fact he had been using Master Oil in his units for more than a year before he told us about it. I think he had assumed we had been using it all along until we asked him how come he didn't have the lower unit trouble we were having. What we learned from that, is the heavier greases puff up like whipping cream and with all that foaming it is not providing lubrication and instead because of the weight and viscosity, it is thrown away from the gears. That solved the vast majority of our lower unit problems.

With all the advances in technology there are probably lots of low viscosity synthetics now that will do a great job.

[fbref5269]

hi all,

one mystery is solved.... there were 2 bolts hiding under about an inch of sealer. got the sealer out and the bolts out. wondered why it was still not budging after heating it up..... well you need to drain the oil out of it first.... duh frank..... it should come out now.

today's delimia deals with the needle bearings in the nose and on the driveshaft in the d quickie lower unit. the torrington gb1112. i have called mercury, bearings and drives, a&w bearings(thebearingplace) and applied technologies and the answer is the same..... not in torringtons catalogue. this even surprised ted miller the looper collector. his reply to me was WHAT!!!

there is a b1112 but it is only good up to 4200 rpms, not good on a looper or much of anything. i did however find a bearing that may work, but need everyones feedback. here are the specs as i was given by a rep from applied tech.... gb1112 ..... id: .6875 , od .875 fits housing bore .870 to .8703 and a shaft of .6876 to .6873 ......

the substitute manufactored by ina sce1112..... id .687 , od .875 no specs onm the hpousing or shaft size... they have a spacer inbetween the needles and when put on the different shafts there is play just like the ones in the unit now. these are good for up to 16000 rpms in oil and 14000 in grease.

the question to everyone is will they work????? price of these were $4.84 each. i don't want to put these in and blow the lower unit. if they will not work, what will????

discuss amongst yourselves.....

thanks for all your feedback so far,

frank

[mercguy]

I've got a half dozen of these units and I have found the gears to be anywhere from perfect to severely worn and broken teeth. Since I don't know the history of how each unit was run I can't say why the difference. Could be as simple as type of lubrication. There were two different sizes of these units although the look almost identical. And there were a variety of gear ratios. The smaller unit was used on all the Konigs of the era except the "D"engines. The gear ratio was different depending on the size of the engine. The "D" engines used the larger unit and normally ran the 1:1 ratio gears to handle the horsepower. If someone ran the lower ratio gears on the big engine that could account for the severe wear and tooth breakage. I ran a 12:15 Konig unit on my Merc "Cmod" for several years and saw no detectable wear in the gears.

Greg, what size props were you running on your Cmod Merc with 12/15's? I have a Konny 12/15 unit Litzel sent home with me to try, but have yet to bolt it up, due to trying to figure out what prop to run?

[RogerH]

Frank,
The GB-1112 IS in the 2007 Torrington (Timkin) catalog. Take a look at section C-Pg81. There is a note to add the "G" to "B-1112" if the extra-precision bearing is required. The BearingPlace does have these listed and I have submitted a request for quote for enough to do yours and my two. Greg McCreery told me he got some GB-1112's locally in the Atlanta area as late as last Thursday. Will let you know tomorrow what I hear from the BearingPlace.

[David Mason]

We do for most of our bearings for the Mercs and OMC's. Lots cheaper than the factory bearings, and just as good if not better. They have yet to fail us in finding a bearing suitable for replacement on anything in the engines we race. Just take the old one and they mic it up and it is there in a day or so.

However, if you are restoring and need an original I most certainly understand the need to find them.

[mac19f]

Daren,
I ran that Cmod probably 7 or 8 years ago and don't remember the numbers on the prop. I'd have to see if I can find my race notebook from back then. I remember my best prop was a tulip blade Harry Pinner prop. As I recall the prop was originally made for 16:21 gears. The 12:15 unit is pretty close and it let me turn the C engine a bit higher.

Greg
19F

[fbref5269]

dave,

thanks for the info. i really don't need original bearings per say for the lower unit, just ones that will work and not blow apart. from what i can see they spec to the gb1112's but i won't know until i take them out. the spec sheets on them are the same. roger and i will get to the bottom of this mystery. i was looking at the beairng place web site at several listings for the gb1112's and then called them. they said that none were available. they are looking into it and will call me back. roger hinsdale emailed them last night and is waiting for a reply. sure would be nice if appiled's cross match works. they are only 30 min away from me.

frank