8 cylinder Konig outboard

[Mark Suter]

From what is being posted in this entire thread it is very apparent that my write-up does contain numerous errors. I knew very little about the motor before the DePue Reunion and talked to a lot of people about it at that event. A lot was said and it was difficult to separate fact from fiction (as Wayne suggested, I obviously captured some of both). From your great input, I can now go back and revise my write-up to set the facts straight. I do sincerely appreciate all of your comments... they have all been very helpful.

I thought the water injection system was something that Joe Michelini had added. I was told at DePue that the 1/8" tubes entering the exhaust header pipes were there when the powerhead was received by Marshall. Since they were never used when the motor was raced, the injection system should be removed to be more historically correct and each of the four entry tubes should be capped. I will take off the incorrect graphics (they were on the motor when I got it) and try to match the paint with colors that can be seen in the early pictures of this motor that were posted on BRF in the past. Thanks again for the help.

[Chris Hellsten]

Tom,

Can you give me any info or pictures on the motor shown to the right of the 8 cylinder in the first picture. I believe it is a Konig 125. My dad, Pete Hellsten, built that for me when I was 10 years (circa 1976) old. The little bit I can see of the crankcase was machined by him after I cracked the original Konig casting.

Thanks,

Chris Hellsten

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Joe called me today after he saw this picture and I could have sworn I had posted a while back, but maybe not. This was the first time he remembered seeing it. The historical aspect really struck him. It was a one time occurrence where these three engines, and only these three unique engines were in competition with one another. And the other thing Joe thought was that it can't happen again. He was complementing me on the pic when I reminded him that I didn't take it, I was in the boat. He wanted to know who did. It was Debbie.

After asking Joe to recall what he remembered, he confirmed about what I did. I remembered Dan coming along side of me but not passing me. What Joe recalls was that I came out of the turn first and was gone. Joe said down the back straight "Dan was reeling you in, but then you came to the turn". That's about what I remember also. It went on for a couple of laps, then Dan must have decided if he was to get by me he was going to have to be more aggressive in the turns then the lower unit went. I am thinking now that the piston blew in a different race and it was the lower unit that blew. In any case, Joe and I both think the 8 went down in the first heat.

We aren't quite in the racing mode Charley. I didn't include the roostertails in this shot. It is about the time we see that we are all right for a wide open start. We were pitted about 100 yards from the clock so I think Debbie caught Dan just as he was getting set to put the hammer down and hunker down for the race to the turn. You can see how much chine is wet.....but not for long.

[Tomtall]

Chris - I am sorry but I do not have any pics of the 125. Mark has so many engines in his display it would take a better part of a day to take pics of all the engines and tags. As far as the history of your old engine, I think Mark could probably help you there.

I just want to thank everyone for posting your input on this thread. It's turned into a keeper.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Mark, I have intended to send you some pics, but just been busy. I will pull some different angles so you have an idea of what it looked like when Dieter first brought it over. Charley Bailey was driving it at Lakeland as Billy Seebold had quit Pro and gone to OPC and Marshall had not yet tapped Dan kirts to do the driving. I will include a copy of the three racing at Fort Worth. Luckily your 8 is in the foreground so it stands out from the other two.

BTW I saw the display of your stuff on the other thread. Fantastic.

[Original Looper 1]

I'm really enjoying this thread about Mark's Konig 8.

Mark's B Looper is a late 1966 or very early 1967, originally owned by Bill Wanamaker. Through extensive research, it appears currently (unless better documented info appears) that the 1st race where a Quincy Looper appeared, was in the spring of 1965.

Wayne, in February of 1976, at the Worlds at Firebird Lake, near Phoenix, Arizona, was the first time I actually got to spend quality time with Dieter Konig. He had the German team with him. Jim McKean had his big team there too. I was there with our new Quincy Z - B engine. Wayne, I also met you there for the first time. Dieter was quite a gentleman. I took an immediate liking to him, even though he was our fierce competitor. He was asking me as many questions as I was asking him! The most amazing thing I remember was the 6 cylinder Konig ran just as fast without the expansion chambers as with them on. Later I had a long discussion with my father about that. He told me there was an unusual resonance that only occured to such a significant degree with a 3 or 6 cylinder 120 pulse firing 2-cycle engine.

I have many pictures from that great event which I intend to post when I have time to sort through them all.

Jeff, here's a little Konig eye candy for you and all the other Konig fans out there. The tie tacks and labels were given to me by Konig himself.

thanks,

Paul A Christner

(Please note: These pictures are for your enjoyment and are not to be copied or posted to any other web site without my written permission.)

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I am looking forward to your pictures Paul. I never saw those tie tacks before. Dieter had a great respect for your Dad's abilities Paul. He was a good guy as you found out, and his curiosity about motors was unlimited and endless.

Here is one angle of the 8 from Lakeland, Florida in 1977. It has the starter on it. I don't remember right now when I first saw the motor, but I could have sworn it was at Lakeland and it took two synchronized ropers. Need to do some more research. May have to call Marshall.

Mark, forgot to ask earlier, but what is the serial number? Is it a wierd non standard Konig number? Or were there at one time a serial number on each block? Or was it just a standard number as Dieter would use beginning with the year of manufacture?

[Mark Suter]

Wayne, that is a great picture. That will really help to get the correct decals and to get the colors right. Dan Kirts told me that the motor did indeed have a rope sheave on each crank at the onset and that it took two synchronized ropers to start it (except when Gene East started it by himself). Since starting was so cumbersome, they opted to put the two Fiat starters on to make things a bit easier. I have looked over the powerhead and have found no identifying numbers. However, I haven't had all of the ancillary parts off so the numbers may be hidden. Any suggestions on where to look?

[Mark Suter]

Jeff, you indicated the flat black paint on the pipes was wrong. The pics I have looked at show black pipes. What color do you think they should be??? I agree that the decal and the orange fuel hoses must go.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

I had the good fortune to be present at what I believe was one of the first if not the first, test of the 8 cyl Konig. As Wayne mentioned, the race site was Lakeland, Fl., and the test site was in an Orange Grove about 15 or so miles east of Lakeland that I don't remember the name of. We used to test there a lot in the 70's, but lost the site for some reason or another, and the name escapes me now.

Marshall showed up with the motor, a quite large (for the time) Byers hydro, and Charlie Bailey was there as the driver as Wayne mentioned, before Dan Kirts, but after Billy Seebold. The battery that was being used for energizing the starters very quickly discharged and since battery power was needed, and I wanted badly as did everyone else in attendance to see the motor run, I pulled the Ford Galaxy 500 rent-a-car I was driving out into the lake far enough so Marshall could get the jumper cables from the car battery to the back of the boat. I sat in the car with the engine reved up to get all the voltage possible to the starters and he tested that way for quite a while. The engine bay in the car had the water clear up about halfway, so the fan blades were picking up water and throwing it everywhere, but who gave a damn, we were there to see the 8 cylinder run. After it was all over with, we had to get another car or truck to pull my car out as it had sunk into the sand bottom of the lake up to the front axle and I was stuck but good.

I seem to remember that Marshall's chief concern about both testing and racing the motor that weekend was a getting a prop with a very small diameter but enough pitch for the hp/torque the motor put out, as with too large a diameter prop it wanted to swing the back end of the boat around under acceleration. He mentioned this numerous times and I think he had some props sent in trying to find the right combination of small diameter and high pitch so as to eliminate that problem. Never heard whether that was a problem specific to the Byers boat, or any other boats they put the motor on.

I have been surprised to see pictures and the actual motor purported to be this engine at the DePue reunion. I heard that when Marshall quit, he gave the motor to Danny and he made two 500's from the one 8 cyl motor. I have no personal knowledge of that situation, but that was the common knowledge story going around at the time.

I hope the motor on display now is really the orginal one, as it was a big part of the history of PRO Racing and Konig technology at the time, and since there will never be another it would be great if it has been preserved. That begs another question?...Could there have been more than one? Maybe Danny could put that question to rest as he was supposed to have ended up with the engine.