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Thread: Finish on 20H Conversion LU

  1. #51
    BoatRacingFacts VIP Aeroliner's Avatar
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    Default Allite more on Lowere units

    Well I decided to do a little more looking into the lower units on my engines. The early 25SS engine I have has the classic deep skeg lower unit. This engine has the square exhaust opening in the tower housing. The later 25SS has the short skeg with the single water inlet hole and an exhaust snout that is round. My early 25XS has the exact same tower housing and foot while the late mode 25XS has the very short tower and the lost foam foot. I guess the lost foam unit is a result of the tooling to make the classic die cast items to be either worn out or scrapped in a cleanup. I can take some photos if anyone would like.

    Alan

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    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroliner View Post
    Well I decided to do a little more looking into the lower units on my engines. The early 25SS engine I have has the classic deep skeg lower unit. This engine has the square exhaust opening in the tower housing. The later 25SS has the short skeg with the single water inlet hole and an exhaust snout that is round. My early 25XS has the exact same tower housing and foot while the late mode 25XS has the very short tower and the lost foam foot. I guess the lost foam unit is a result of the tooling to make the classic die cast items to be either worn out or scrapped in a cleanup. I can take some photos if anyone would like.

    Alan
    The dies were lost in a clean up. Fred Hauenstein says many engineering man-hours were spent looking for the dies in hopes of not having to re-engineer.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  3. #53
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for the Picture of the Gold Long Skeg Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by MTECHMARINE View Post
    This 20h has a very small "1956" steel stamped between the model and serial number on the id plate.

    Serial number 790039

    pretty sure it has the original gearcase.
    The only long skeg 20-H foot I ever saw was just like the one posted in MTECHMARINE picture. That was just like I remembered it. We sanded the gold paint off and painted is 30-H.

    That 1956 stamp gives me thoughts....the first 20-H I ever saw was Stu Down's 20-H and we took it to Pep Hubbell and ran it on the dyno. That was in the spring of 1954 I was 10.


    By 1956 wasn't the Hot Rod beating the 20-H all to hell??

    Thanks for all the great posts!
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 05-27-2014 at 09:27 PM.

  4. #54
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hill View Post
    The only long skeg 20-H foot I ever swa was just like the one posted in MTECHMARINE picture. That was just like I remembered it. We sanded the gold paint off and painted is 30-H.

    That 1956 stamp gives me thoughts....the first 20-H I ever saw was Stu Down's 20-H and we took it to Pep Hubbell and ran it on the dyno. That was in the spring of 1954 I was 10.


    By 1956 wasn't the Hot Rod beating the 20-H all to hell??

    Thanks for all the great posts!
    There were so many more 20H's than new Hot Rods set up with championship proficiency that at most you could say they were competitive. By 1957 the top Hot Rod drivers were getting things dialed in, but still, the sales numbers were low. At many races there just weren't any new Hot Rods showing up and the 20H generally ruled over KG7H's, Martin racers & older Hot Rod B's. At the big races in '57 & '58, well set up Hot Rods started handing Mercs their butts ... and Charlie and Edgar went to work.

    By the time the conversion kits were delivered to market, the overall Champion Hot Rod Outboard company had folded ... no new motors were being sold; the inventory was boxed up on railcars to clear the buildings and property for bankruptcy sale. It sat on those railcars on an unused rail siding until it was rescued by Swanson and he assembled motors from previously manufactured parts from those railcars in the early '60's.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  5. #55
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    Default 20H in marathons against hotrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    There were so many more 20H's than new Hot Rods set up with championship proficiency that at most you could say they were competitive. By 1957 the top Hot Rod drivers were getting things dialed in, but still, the sales numbers were low. At many races there just weren't any new Hot Rods showing up and the 20H generally ruled over KG7H's, Martin racers & older Hot Rod B's. At the big races in '57 & '58, well set up Hot Rods started handing Mercs their butts ... and Charlie and Edgar went to work.

    By the time the conversion kits were delivered to market, the overall Champion Hot Rod Outboard company had folded ... no new motors were being sold; the inventory was boxed up on railcars to clear the buildings and property for bankruptcy sale. It sat on those railcars on an unused rail siding until it was rescued by Swanson and he assembled motors from previously manufactured parts from those railcars in the early '60's.
    The 20H was a better choice in the marathons. The hotrods suffered in its early stage due to limited choices on props. Prop pin was in different place than mercs.

    The 20H showed its worth as a marathon engine but suffered with a high gear ratio in short coarse against the hotrod and was shy by a horsepower or so.

  6. #56
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
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    Default Changiing Times: KG-7. Mark 20-H Then the Hot Rod

    My dad had "JUMPED" on being a Mercury dealer in 1949-50. When the Hot Rod appeared being a dealer seems to make sense. Problem was times they were a changing. People in California were having great fun racing their little Mercury motors (Damn Mercuries to the "Alky" racer.)

    Let's say SoCal had 25 BU's with KG-7's. When the 20-H came out we dropped to 12 BU's. When the Hot Rod came out we dropped to 6 BU's.

    A Champion Hot Rod weighed 43 pounds. They sold for $430 or ten buck a pound. Buck Parrish who was a Bakersfield cotton farmer/oil man, called the Hot Rod a "TIN CAN MONSTER" as you need four engines to run a weekend race in BU and BSH.

    The expense and the cost of rebuilding the Hot Rod basically killed B Racing in SoCal.

    Johnny Alden in Oakland, California modified the Hot Rod and made it go faster than anyone would believe, then Harry Bartolomei moded them and made them faster. But the John Q. Public had given up on them...

    By the time the 20-H Kit came alone the Hot Rod waws in complete pieces....but opened the exhaust on a Rod 1960 at Beloit proved the Hot Rod could beat the 20-H if someone allowed them "OPEN EXHAUST"...Seems either John Van Epps or Roger Stearman "SMOKED" the 20-H's for a few laps...then pulled off.

    Stock Outboard racing was in a "TAIL SPIN" but 1960 of which they have never recovered.

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    Absolutely!!! Those little blue devils were something!! But the truth is, hard to say, that the 20H was way better as far as a good block, strong heavy-duty crank, and good rods. Those Merc rods were thicker than Hotrod type connecting rods. The flywheels were the same model, but the Hotrod taper was smaller equal to a regular Mark20 fishing engine. One thing one could be sure of, is that a merc would last and was pretty reliable under power.

    The Hotrod cranks were a bit slim for the kind of power it had. The block and midsection of the hotrod should have never been more than 15 cubes to start with. The bad part was that the aluminum used on the hotrod was a bit thin. The block was way way overstressed for its weight and size. Its like they were trying to squeeze 20 cubes and 25+ HP out of a 7.5 hp engine format!! And they did!!! That was a super fast and temperamental engine to say the least. It was like the "Stage Three Max Wedge Mopar" of outboards.

    One thing that gets me about the 20H is that I know more power could have been made simply by factory square ports on a new cylinder block and a exhaust cover furthure extended from those dang exhaust ports!! They might well have not needed that ridiculous looking commode mid to at least gain parity with all previous tech rules unchanged.

  8. #58
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ20B View Post
    One thing that gets me about the 20H is that I know more power could have been made simply by factory square ports on a new cylinder block and a exhaust cover furthure extended from those dang exhaust ports!! They might well have not needed that ridiculous looking commode mid to at least gain parity with all previous tech rules unchanged.
    The way APBA rules and rule making worked then and now, this would have been unlikely. Bolt on parts with the same internal specs are a lot easier to get approved. There are too many variances in changing and allowing porting changes.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  9. #59
    Team Member zul8tr's Avatar
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    Default 20H mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    The way APBA rules and rule making worked then and now, this would have been unlikely. Bolt on parts with the same internal specs are a lot easier to get approved. There are too many variances in changing and allowing porting changes.
    I think what Champ20B was referring to was the factory doing the ports and the exhaust plate mods for more power to beat the Hot Rod rather than all the R&D for the toilet bowl? Then inspection would not be a problem over DIY'ers doing it to some spec. The drivers who didn't have this upgrade would of course want it and they would have to replace the block for these mods. The cost difference between toilet bowl mod vs above would have been an issue for drivers and to Mr. K and his development team. But Mr. was a beat them at all costs guy just to be ahead?
    " Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin

    Location: SW Orlando, Fl

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    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul8tr View Post
    I think what Champ20B was referring to was the factory doing the ports and the exhaust plate mods for more power to beat the Hot Rod rather than all the R&D for the toilet bowl? Then inspection would not be a problem over DIY'ers doing it to some spec. The drivers who didn't have this upgrade would of course want it and they would have to replace the block for these mods. The cost difference between toilet bowl mod vs above would have been an issue for drivers and to Mr. K and his development team. But Mr. was a beat them at all costs guy just to be ahead?
    As evidenced by the debates about chamfering, where to measure etc, inspection would be a problem. All is sidestepped with bolt-on parts. Back in 1960, there were a lot more racers that never saw the inside of a motor; having to disassemble and do the work or send it out to be done would have reeked to high hell of alky racing.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


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