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Thread: Opinions requested re: overlap rule

  1. #71
    Jeff - UFL Racing sst45jefff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss BK View Post
    Hi Fred,

    The OPC rules are different than the "minimum distance" rules found in other categories. In OPC, they say it's an infraction only when "contact" is made. But yet they say the overlap is established when the cockpit "is even with the cockpit of the overtaken boat".

    So the way this rule reads, if you are about to pass another boat on the inside but you aren't yet "cockpit to cockpit", maybe your cockpit is at his transom --and the boat you are passing suddenly chops you and your reflexes are quick enough to avoid that collision, then there's no infraction. But if you have slow reflexes and you hit the boat that is chopping you off - then there IS an infraction, but it's not the "chopping" boat getting the infraction --- the boat being chopped is going to get the penalty, because the rules read: "A safe overlap is the responsibility of the overtaking boat."


    Here's how the OPC rules read (from apba-racing.com OPC rule book)

    RULE 9 OVERLAP
    1. An overlap is established only when two boats are on the same course, or approximately the same course, and the cockpit of the overtaking boat, if
    overtaking from the inside, is even with the cockpit of the overtaken boat. When overtaking from the outside, an overlap is established when the overtaking boat has passed the overtaken boat sufficiently to change lanes without contact. The following rules shall apply to an overlap:
    ..A. The lead boat has the right of way until an overlap is established.
    ..B. A safe overlap is the responsibility of the overtaking boat.
    ..C. Once an overlap is established, the overtaken boat must give the overtaking boat room to clear any course markers.
    ..D. The overtaking boat cannot force an overlap after the lead boat has begun to alter course to negotiate a turn.
    ..E. An overlap can occur from port or starboard.
    2. Bearing away as defined in the General Racing Rules is defined as occurring from either port or starboard in OPC racing.
    If you are overtaking than it is your responsibiliuty for a safe pass. Passing on the inside if you are not cockpit to cockpit before the turn than it is your responsibility to get out of there with out getting anybody hurt.
    The boat you are overtaking may or may not know you are there and that in my opinion is where radios can help to keep the drivers informed on what could become a bad situation if there is a boat where it should not be when entering the turn.

    Cockpit to cockpit was used so that you can see the boat without looking in the mirror since there is not always time to look in the mirror at the last second before entering a turn depending on what is going on around you.

    Bottom line is all of us need to drive with common sense and our head screwed on straight so we can go home after a weekend of fun and see our family again regardless of how the rule is written.

  2. #72
    Team Member Miss BK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sst45jefff View Post
    My point was that there should have been a penalty and if you dont give the penaltys when they are do than the ofending driver either
    1. Has no clue and keeps doing it or
    2. does it again because they got away with it.

    The rules dont work if they are not enforced.
    But didn't you say its only a penalty when there is contact?

  3. #73
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    Default overlap

    I agree "the rule only works if it gets enforced"

    and I also agree that the only way it gets enforced is if there is contact.

    That is is why I don't really like the rule.

    It benefits the overagressive risk taking driver because if the guy on the outside leaves the lane even when an overlap is not established then there will be no call.

    Jay

  4. #74
    Team Member capnzee's Avatar
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    Would the "red zones" used in the Parker "300" add to the safety of racing? If you are not familiar but are interested in this rule, check the Parker "300" rules. The "red zone" as we apply it at Parker may be too conservative for closed course racing however it has been quite successful in the Enduro as it has been run safely the past few years. Having to make contact before a rule is enforced seems to be a really easy way to spoil a great week end! Capnzee

  5. #75
    Jeff - UFL Racing sst45jefff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxjay5419 View Post
    I agree "the rule only works if it gets enforced"

    and I also agree that the only way it gets enforced is if there is contact.

    That is is why I don't really like the rule.

    It benefits the overagressive risk taking driver because if the guy on the outside leaves the lane even when an overlap is not established then there will be no call.

    Jay
    Jay - if the guy on the outside leaves a lane even when he does not have overlap established what is the problem ?

  6. #76
    Team Member Miss BK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sst45jefff View Post
    Jay - if the guy on the outside leaves a lane even when he does not have overlap established what is the problem ?
    Because the infraction is still being made by the inside driver.

  7. #77
    Jeff - UFL Racing sst45jefff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss BK View Post
    Because the infraction is still being made by the inside driver.
    I was not clear on Jay's post that the inside boat was trying to establish the lane.
    That being the case than the outside boat does not have to leave a lane. Move over if you want.
    If you leave a lane I would expect there would be a boat in there using it.

  8. #78
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    Default yes that is my point

    you are making my point.

    the inside boat is responsible for backing off. but if he takes advantage of the rule we have and does not back off then the outside boat can either

    1 still take the buoy result: 2 boat accident inside boat get 1 lap penalty and both boats are most likely crashed out of the race.

    2. leave the inside guy the lane. result: rewarding the inside boat for staying in the throttle.

    the rule is a disadvantage to the regular racer who is smart and backs out of the throttle if on the inside or leaves a lane when on the outside.

    my beef is that the boat on the outside gets penalized (not my the officials but by being involved in a crash) if he followes the printed rule. Any rule that there has to be contact to enforce a rule does not make sense.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxjay5419 View Post
    you are making my point.

    the inside boat is responsible for backing off. but if he takes advantage of the rule we have and does not back off then the outside boat can either

    1 still take the buoy result: 2 boat accident inside boat get 1 lap penalty and both boats are most likely crashed out of the race.

    2. leave the inside guy the lane. result: rewarding the inside boat for staying in the throttle.

    the rule is a disadvantage to the regular racer who is smart and backs out of the throttle if on the inside or leaves a lane when on the outside.

    my beef is that the boat on the outside gets penalized (not my the officials but by being involved in a crash) if he followes the printed rule. Any rule that there has to be contact to enforce a rule does not make sense.

    A boat trying to pass on the inside should be required to back-off if he has not established his lane by pulling even, cockpit to cockpit, before the turn.
    How is this a disadvantage to the boat trying to pass on the inside?
    There is no place in the rule that says contact is required for the inside boat to be penalized, read it again.
    If he doesn't back-off and wait 'til it's safe and causes a crash, perhaps a more severe penalty is in order ie: suspension, etc. If he can't slow down, turning inside the bouy is an acceptable alternative but never a collision.

    But if I leave him a lane, that's not unfair...that's my driving mistake and at some point we are actually supposed by be racing. That doesn't mean I run people into the bouys, but there's a big difference between leaving about 4' so you can slow down to get around the bouy and leaving 8' so you can squeeze in up next to me.

    I gotta go back to several prior posts, including my own, that this kinda stuff stops when there are good turn judges and referee's calling penalties. I think it was during 2004 and 2005 seasons that I was part of a permanent turn judge crew for Champboat and it only took 2 races worth of penalties for this stuff to stop. They don't have a turn judge crew and here we are.

  10. #80
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    Default overlap

    I see your point that a rule is useless unless it is enforced.

    Yes it is the inside guys responsibility to back off.

    The disadvantage for the inside guy in my example is the regular hard driving but smart racer will back off and the rule can reward the risk taking driver who doesn't back off.

    The overaggressive driver may leave his half a boat in that lane and try to make the corner. If he does leave his half a boat in there and the outside boat realizes that by following the rule and taking the pin there will be contact and decides to stay a lane outside then you are saying that the officials should still give the inside boat a lap penalty?

    I have never seen an official enforce the rule this way but that does not mean they shouldn't.

    my baseline come from stock outboard. The inside boat gets penalized regularly without the outside boat having to be "involved"

    Jay

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