Konig History

[lcp]

so did u guy mean a 'true 850 konig' to be a boxer 4 or boxer 6? regard......cause someone tell me it a boxer 4.....

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

so did u guy mean a 'true 850 konig' to be a boxer 4 or boxer 6? regard......cause someone tell me it a boxer 4.....

The picture just posted by Sam certainly looks like a 6 cylinder with rotary valve & 3 carbs.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

The "Boxer" opposed 6 was definitely built in an OF size, as that is the configuration that Hans Krage won the OF Championship at Firebird Lake in Phoenix in the mid 70's as described several times with photos in some of Wayne Baldwin posts on this site. With a small displacement change the same configuration would seem to have been very satisfactory and easily built for OE also, so I would not be surprised to know the opposed 6 was also built in an OE size. Was this not the engine configuration that Lars Strom ran the one season he drove for Volvo-Penta in OE, as he has discussed and put many photos and information up the last several years?

I also seem to remember a UIM OE championship, (or possibly just E Hydro) that was run at Alex in about the same time frame. That was won I believe by Tom Berry from Kansas City with an over-bored D Konig. Along in this same time frame (70's and possibly early 80's) there were some changes in APBA displacement ranges in the D, E,and F classes, to I believe bring us closer or in line with UIM displacement limits/ranges. This was in the same time frame Baldy Baldwin was promoting UIM racing at several locations, Dayton and Alex included. Included at the time was the race he promoted at Dayton with the controversy regards fuel use, gas versus methanol when the factories promoted a ban on methanol in favor of gas.

Wayne would surely be versed on the finer points as he ran these classes and based on the kind of records he kept and photos taken at the time would be an excellent source of information on this subject.

[Lars Strom]

Hi Bill,

No..Volvo Penta, Gothenburg did not let us use a boxer six for OE racing 1977.
I only raced the 3 cylinder OE Konig that year..because it had "some" connections with the Volvo Penta production 70 HP engine

[Steve Litzell]

Correct again. It is a 6



As far as I know there was no 4 cylinder 850 ... 4 cylinder 750 (47.6 ci) boxer, yes


There was also an 850 inline 3 developed with Volvo I think mentioned earlier in this thread and an inline 3 850 pleasure motor that was successfully race in stock classes

The 6 cylinder was two cylinders 64 mm and 4 cylinders 66. Is was infact the motor Hans won with in OF. As Bill said during this time we had big D's but they were run F class Nationally and CDF locally. We also had 750 or what we called big D. Bruce Nicholson made a 6 cylinder Radial that fit perfect in 750. This was also the time USA changed to cc's as opposed to cubic inches, so any motor over 700 but not 1100 was E or 850. The motors we have here that we call F Konigs are 748 cc's and were legal for 850. hence the VE in the serial number. Their were a few big boys at 67 to 68 mm bore with L rings that were brutal to crank but again these were VF models. I guess we forget when this happened and all A and C motors had 53.5 bores. When we went to cc's we could have the new standard bore motors of 54 mm. So At Walt's place we bore a hell of lot C and FA motors to the new standard bore of 54 mm. This all was done to allow the Mercs have a .030 bore over standard. This is also why our 125 and 250 class have higher bore limits than what is allowed in UIM. 8 cylinder 850 Konig was a stacked motor. I have this motor fro Uli Rochelle in my collection. The rotary valve was first, the reed valve was second, and fuel injected motor was third until UIM said no More of this Konig. Steve

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Glad to hear you chime in on this Steve. What you and Lars said is correct. I have sat on the sidelines up til now because I'm confused by the term "boxer". I have never heard that term regarding a Konig or any motor, so I was confused....still am. What is the definition of a "boxer" motor.

Another thing. We had several Konigs we ran in the F class, but in UIM they would have been classified OE. One was an overbored D, another was a square block made as an F with the Dykes rings which I guess was the one Steve referred to, and the dual rotary valve, 4 carb square block that Dieter built for Marshall Grant. We bought that from Marshall when he retired from racing in 1974. All of these were considered OE by UIM standards, and I don't remember the actual displacement, but they were at the low end of around 750cc's like Steve said. I wasn't sure if Icp meant the class designation of an OE 850cc class Konig, or if it was actually an 850cc displacement Konig.

The pictures I have of Roger Jenkins rotary valve OE Konig/Volvo Penta are 3 cylinder. The King Kong Konig that Hans won two consecutive OF World Championships with was a 6 cylinder opposed. It did exactly what Dan said Jerry Peterson's OE motor did whenever it was overrevved either on the bank or when a shear pin sheared or the lower unit would blow. Dan.....I never took pictures of Jerry's motor as far as I can remember. Could you describe it more in detail?

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Wayne:

I have always understood the description of an engine as a "boxer" configuration is like the Porsche, VW, Subaru, etc. In other words an engine that is horizonally opposed like the Konig design. The BMW bikes also had the same design and that is where I first heard the term. Also most engines built by Continental and Lycoming for aircraft use are the same design, although I never heard them call a boxer type, but just opposed design.

Whether it has anything to do with how the engines are installed I have no idea, but most all of the engines of that design are installed laying down flat, at least the ones I am aware of. That type installation certainly has some advantages, one of course being low center of gravity.

[Dan M]

Wayne,

Best I can remember is that it was a true OE motor. 2 carbs,1 rotary valve. It was most likely stamped OF. Probably was a 750, but I thought it was 48 cu. inches(785cc's). Too many years ago. When Jerry over-reved, he had actually broken the prop shaft right at the end of the case. His best Pop Smith wheel went to the bottom of the lake. When we brought the boat up on shore, I could see light all the way through the cases when looking through the carbs. Harry Pasturczak had the cases in his shop for quite some time and was going to try to re-work them. Don't know if that ever happened. It was the Dayton race where Jeff Hutchins was running Elmer's OE against the tunnel boats and showed them the way around the course. Maybe Jerry can comment some time!

Dan

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Thanks Dan. That sounds like the standard 48 ci square block Konig with the big carbs, and not a full 850cc motor. I think that's what Jeff was driving also for Elmer. I hope Jerry gets on here and fills us in.

[Jerry Peterson]

Dan
You have an excellent recollection of Dayton in '78 with one exception.We actually went
through 2 lower units that day and sent my 2 best Pop Smith props to the bottom of the lake.When I took the first lower unit over to Dieter he shook his head and asked what modifications we had made to the engine.He then handed me a new lower unit.That shaft broke in the same place and thats when the crank wound up.
Doug Bindrim from New York purchased the engine from Scott Smith in about '72.He
won the APBA Nationals in F Runabout and put the engine in storage.He agreed to sell it to me in '78 when I returned to racing after several years as a spectator.
It was refered to as a 48" square block and was a torque monster and not a high rpm engine.The only others I was aware of were Marshall's dual rotary valve engine that Wayne
bought and the one that Elmer Grade had,although there may have been others.Maybe one on the west coast?
When Baldy became aware that I had that engine he insisted that that we come to Dayton
for the UIM race.Baldy was determined that a Konig was going to win OE that year.The class was restricted to gasoline but Baldy assured us Konig guys that our fuel samples
would be "misplaced"!
Baldy was the best promoter that we had in Pro Outboard Racing.What a great Guy!