"Name That Outboard"

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi John,

The 444 conversion was designed to be absolutely legal in APBA by using the existing crankcase cover. BTW: There is no welding - only aluminum filled epoxy and bolts. I've not queried the AOF, but Jim Robb offered to take it to the NBRA Nationals and was told it is illegal there.

Your Nydahl front end will work nicely, but may be bounced by the APBA as this "made for racing" part takes place of the "recognizable block and crankcase" rule. My interepretation is the rule was meant to keep factory race parts out; I'd build it anyway and petition a rule change if needed.

As for the twin Mercs, exhaust can go either way. The thought of building one just for the sound intrugues me, but the result would be more weight than my 13' Ropp can handle!

Tim

BTW: The 62 ci Merc never did well in Alky or Mod according to Bud Parker and others I've known that tried to run it. The 444 is still your best Merc FE.

[Mark75H]

I have never heard of any piston scoring problem with the 44's have you Tim?

[Tim Kurcz]

I've never heard of scoring of 44 pistons except in blocks where "boiler cement" was used to rigidly bond filler blocks in dry stack systems, except in cases of lack of oil, or cooling loss.

Tim

PS I think John was referring to the 62 ci Merc650 which is a known piston burner.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

Tim:

Your correct, I was referring to the bigger Merc (62 inch) engines having pistons problems. I have never known of any problematic piston conditions on the smaller Merc 4s from 30, 40 and 44 cubic inch sizes. I have never had a problem with any of them in my stock racing days either, not a once even. Just wearouts from use. To me the Mercury series of engines from 30, 40 & 44 cubic inch 4 cylinder engines were the best engines Merc ever built for 4 cylinder engines engineering & metalurgy wise with just the Mark 30s 30 inch engines having weak lungs other than that its block was over engineered for its bore size but under engineered for the 30H racing gearcase which I grew to hate somewhat similarly to the loathing I felt for the 2 carb 3 Holer Mercs and Mariners later!

The Nydahl front case is being developed and I still need to go your direction on building a legal 44 FE using your principles of adding to meet rules than re-inventing a new front case which is what the Nydahl was for in Alky racing.

When you look at that picture of Ray Nydahl with that twin Merc setup as it appears to be but both are configured facing standard forward and exhausts rearward and downward there is no indication of what couples the powerheads to the common tower. I have one more servicable twin engine coupler here soaking to get it apart for new bearings and seals and with that adapter already started by Tenney having one Merc facing forward, one rearward and all pipes setup (Bayer aluminum, Parkers etc. aluminum sets for lighter weight) facing rearward it is concievable to build an 8 cylinder coupled Merc from 30 X2 or 40 X 2 or 44 X 2 engine with gearing set to fire one cylinder every 45 degrees from a coupled engine would make noise that would shake boulders out of cliffs and or cause avalanches! I suspect that with 2 Mark 30s the coupler transmission would be okay but above that 60 combined cubic inch mark going to 80 and 88 cubic inches an oil cooler and oil pump would be required to cool the 90 weight hypoid oil it uses. Doing all the measurements since figuring out that smoked unfinished adapater plate out makes this project doable. The only matched blocks I have left now are a few Merc 400 - 44 cubic inch blocks and until this got identified I really did not want to build another Mercury after the Twister, the Nydahl 44 and your kind of FE 44 gets finished but to get to build this kind of 8 cylinder coupled Merc engine changes that feeling. Its like saying one more for old times sake! The notion is very powerful making one want to do it.

I have Wayne Walgraves restored 1970 - 13.5 foot Chaparral class F wedge hydro Alky boat here and it carried 6 cylinder Quincy Flatheads very successfully, I suspect this twin 8 cylinder setup might be 30 to 40 pounds heavier than that and could go on there to be run. I suspect though it would need a big Konig, Speedmaster or Chrysler etc. lower unit to take the power and torque depending on what the 2 power heads coupled together on top would do. Neat thing is that the more cylinders you pile up on gearcases that have some relativity to what your doing it becomes less hard on the gears themsleves. That is what they found with the coupled twin Anzani C Alky. They fired the 4 cylinders alternating at 90 degrees as well as 180 degrees and found the worst wear was when there was the 180 degree firing and more normal wear at 90 degrees of firing for 4 cylinders. Its interesting stuff. Doing a coupled Merc 4 X 2 of any sort I would still resort to making them Modified Gassers anyway for ease of starting and tuning. Good lord, they would present themselves as engines that the use of "fixed jets" would actually be a logical requirement as how would one tune a monster like that twisting all the high speed needles like some 30H or 55H, C,D, D or FE modified, how could I forgive myself to my addiction to turnable high speed jet needles??? LOL!

[Original Looper 1]

To All - Concerning the super secret 8-88:

My father told me that was one of the best kept secret factory efforts at the time that he recalled. I think there are still people that know about that project, but were sworn to secrecy. However, the stories that I've heard about the torque that monster produced are frightening. Story also has it that they had to reach far outside the traditional racing circles to find test pilots willing to challenge it's performance potential while still keeping this project a top secret.

Paul A Christner

ps: I'd rather not comment any further on this subject, even though I think I know where the original prototype is currently located.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

Oh Boy! This news is delicious! Thank you! I won't ask anymore either as I am just going to produce the version is obvious here from the adapter already started some time back in the 1960s with some intent to go there. Bill Tenney was pursuing something that British Anzani had already done and Floyd Harris Jr. was campaigning a variant of that sits here restored as the twin block 4 cylinder coupled block Anzani Alky class C. That an 8 cylinder made with 2 - 44 inch Mercs is astonishing! Quincy could have taken that concept to monstrous levels with its Flatheads that are not short of mind boggling! Yes, It would have taken some drivers with cojones found on some buffalo to deal with driving such a beast. With this news that is one twin Merc 8 cylinder that is going to happen here. Now if I can find enough Quincy aluminum stack products to build the period exhaust system it could have had now comes to be part of seek and find though if not some other brand of aluminum pipes will have to do but that is only after trying to find the Quincy products becomes exhausted. Just to think I had a set of 2 into 1 elbos about 8 years ago and let them go just goes to show you why restorers are by nature somewhat packratish!

[Tim Kurcz]

Wow John........ You go for it! A 45 degree phased 8-cyl Merc would be an awesome sound and need a Speedmaster to transmit the power. Don't even think of a 45SS or Koenig. Good luck. Be sure to put up some pics.

Speaking of which, here is tonights 444.2 update.

Tim

To all: These images stretch the thread subject. Do you want to see more?

[Gene East]

John,

I now own all the Quincy patterns for filler blocks and aluminum elbows for the Mercury motors.

They are in need of a lot of repair. After all, some of them are 50 years old. I hope to get them in shape to be used by spring.

A lot depends on my back problems, but brand new, genuine Quincy exhaust for Mercurys is a real possibility in the future.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

Tim:

This kind of Merc 8 - 88 is not as far off in terms of concept to built engine parts wise as the only things missing is a gearcase, exhaust systems, oil cooler, oil circulating pump and a prop. I have everything else parts and components wise. There is of course machine work, some welding and mechanics to it but otherwise it just the missing parts assemblies listed above.

Concerning your casting and machine work. That is neat the way your doing it, setting it up and machined fitting it over the Mercury crankcase for next stage bonding. Out of curiousity I was looking at lost wax casting due to the need to have more Tenney designed and made filler exhaust plugs done again that used to plug the rectangular Anzani cast iron block exhaust casting outlet to completely square and then changing the shape of the exhaust from square to round at the exhaust pipe flange to megaphone. Would lost wax casting have made a closer fitting casting to bond on if looked at or would there be too much shrinkage involved in the casting metal preventing using that method for making any kind of relative casting?

Gene:

It would be good to see more products available in terms of racing pipes, Quincy pipes products at that especially knowing you were their principal pipe maker fo so long. Selling what you make is paramount too and would need support from engine builders and restorers for that matter. Its a circle of support. Count me in. I have seen Quincy type elbos etc. on other makes of engines other Mercs so applications are wide.

[Tim Kurcz]

Hi John,

Shrink is the biggest issue: Aluminum is 1/8" per foot, hence you want to build a new design with a shrink scale no matter what pattern material you choose. If you want to create a pattern to fit to an existing piece (like the 444), you make a direct pull in clay, but recognize there is no allowance for shrink. For this reason the 444 manifold takes time to fit. Should the conversion become more popular, I'll section a fitted casting, add 1/8" to the center and re-pattern to reduce fitting time. There have been three sets of 444 castings poured. We'll see what the market and racing, collector, and racing world brings.

Tim