"Name That Outboard"

[Jerry Peterson]

John Deere had the best cross country snowmobile racer avaliable in 76,77,&78.They used the 340 Kioritz engine.During that time period there was a very extensive cross country racing circuit and the premier race of the year was from St.Paul,Mn. to Winnipeg,Manitoba.A 500 miler.John Deere wanted to win that race and they had built the sled that could do it.Brian Nelson was riding for them and he had previously won the big one.The Kioritz engine was very fast but had a piston problem that they couldnt figure out.
The week before the race the Kioritz factory had a race engine flown to the Moline Ill. airport.Harry Zak solved the problem and fixed it.Brian Nelson won the race with that engine.Harry's name was never mentioned,as usual.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Jerry:

I think you are exactly right. There was a young kid (at the time) who used to pit for Ray Hardy and John Winzler. I can't for the life of me remember his name now, but it will come back in the middle of the night sometime. Anyway, he was very close with Harry and Harry kind of took him under his wing when he (the young man) went to work for Kioritz in Chicago. He really did not know much about two strokes other that the general theory at the time he went to work there, but with Harry's help he quickly rose thru the ranks and I believe was promoted eventually to a very high position with Kioritz. Harry was VERY helpful to him and basically taught him everthing he knew about engines. In turn, the young man was very greatful to Harry and did many nice things for him in return, including providing him, at little or no cost, many Kioritz products such as lawn trimmers, chainsaws, etc., that were NOS that were going to be scrapped when the newer models came out. Harry sold these, made a little cash, and everybody was happy. I think the young man would gladly confirm that he owed his success with that company to Harry and what knowledge he imparted to him. As you said, something very few people ever knew about. I happened to see a program on the History Channel about two years ago about all kinds of lawn and garden power equipment. It was narrated and the equipment demonstrations were done by this young man, who at that time was still employed by Kioritz.
I tried to find him two years ago after seeing the program as Mike Krier and I wanted him to present the ZAK Award that year, but unfortunately he is not with Kioritz anymore and I was unable to locate him, either there or in Chicago. Kioriz products also go under the name of ECHO.

Just remembered his name (before the middle of the nite) ANDY KUZMAR

[Tomtall]

Well ---------------- We had several good answers regarding this custom built Pro engine. It is one of my favorite engines on dispaly at Mark Suters just because of its uniqueness. One heck of a fabrication job. Here is what Mark has to say about the Deer.

It was created from a mid '70s John Deere 340 "Liqui-fire" snowmobile engine and used Konig electronic ignition, a single Carter N carb in lieu of the original dual 34mm Mikunis and Konig LU with 12:15 gears. It was tied together with a simple aluminum frame and Mercury clamp and swivel brackets. The engine was originally manufactured for John Deer by Kioritz in Canada. Two JD racers were created... the first by Millard Peck from Karlin, Michigan and the second by Keith Schictel of Kingsley, Michigan (my motor is the second one... Skip Paul in Indiana now owns the first one). The JDs competed in the PRO Restricted B class. When first made, they could only use one pipe but a later rule change allowed Keith to switch to the two pipes now seen on the motor. The late Tom Squicciarini bought this motor from Keith and continued to race it well into the late '80s. Tom told me that the two JDs handily beat the competition (largely early Konig Bs) for about 8 years until the class rules changed to enable the use of Konig VB motors. The VB was way too much motor for the JD to remain competitive.

[Dan M]

Jerry/Bill,

I remeber Harry telling me what he found wrong with the early Kioritz motor. The motor was one of the first liquid cooled motors to be used for snowmobiles. If you look at the pictures of the RB outboard, you will see that the casting is very large. There were 4 "gussets" in the casting that basically held the bore in place. When they would start the motor, it would warm up evenly, and it would seem that there was nothing wrong. When the thermostat would open, the ice cold water would rush into the cylinders, and the gussets were so massive, they would shrink due to the temperature drop, and the motor would "cold stick". They would shrink so much that the cylinder would take on a square shape and lock the piston on the bore. Harry machined down the gussets, which helped, but the real fix was to put a small hole in the thermostat that would allow circulation of the antifreeze so the coolant would heat up evenly and the motor would never see the massive temperature drop.

To Jerry's point, this was another thing that Harry never was credited for. From what I remember, John Deere was ready to scrap the liquid cooled machines until Harrys fix allowed them to keep them on the market.

Dan

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

In reading the short history by Tom Tall that he got from Mark Suter, I think there are either some misunderstandings or misconceptions involved in the story about the two engines (John Deere's) insofar as rules for the class at the time and also the dominant engines in the class at its peak.

First, the RB rules never specified that an engine, OF ANY MAKE, could only have one pipe. The rule was formulated from the get-go that it either had to be an expansion chamber exhaust or else exhaust below the cavitation plate as the standard Yamato 80 of the time did. The rule was formulated this way because of noise concerns coming into play at that time, and also because the stock model 80, which was the RB class baseline engine, had that type of exhaust system (under water below the cavitation plate) which also served as the cooling water intake for the engine. In the indicated time frame those engines (the John Deere's) were supposedly built, there were very few RB's with more than one pipe, but there was absolutely no rule against the number of pipes that could be used.

Secondly, the most widely used engines in the class from its inception were the Yamato 80's, which as mentioned earlier was the baseline engine. The rules were written by a committee appointed by the PRO Racing Commission to answer a need that arose when the large number of drivers that had come into PRO with the Formula 350 class using the Model 80, were in the last year or so of their five year eligibility to run the class, and were in danger of being lost to the PRO Category if something were not done to give them a class to go on to by modifing the engine they had been running for the previous five years. That was the genesis of the RB class. Other motors in the same size CC category were also legalized, such as the Quincy Looper B, the Quincy Z 350CC motor, several stock category engines, and even some of the older Antique class motors. The class was also open to any other engines that met the CC displacement versus carb venturi dimension that was put in place to try to achieve parity among all the different engines that came out of the woodwork and peoples basements to participate in the class. I saw other engines used that were from 4-wheelers, bikes, and a variety of uses.

The class rules were very basic and simple, CC's versus a committee mandated carb size, no open exhaust, and for the first 10 years or so, limited to two cylinder, alternate firing engines. The VB Konig mentioned was legalized for use in the class, but never became a force, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, because it was restricted to one 25MM carb. I understand there were a few tried in that configuration, but supposedly could not get enough fuel thru that size venturi, and had either sticking/burning problems because of a too lean condition, or were just not competitive with that size carb. I certainly don't intend to cast doubt on what Tom did or did not say, especially now that he is no longer here to have his say, but I was closely involved with the class, both on the committee that set the rules, and as a competitor in the class and held most of the records both competition and straigtaway, which never was broken.

I never remember the John Deere's as being any type threat to the other engines that were the predominant ones that participated in the class. That does not mean they did not win some local races, but at the USTS and National Championships during the time the class was popular over a period of 15 years or so, I never saw one that was competitive against the others of the day.

Again the narrative above is not meant to cast aspersions on anyones stories, but to try to clear up some seemingly misconceptions about the RB class.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of this engine, and have no idea where it might be now. It might possibly have gone with a large amount of engines, parts, etc., sold to R.C. Hawie by Butch Leavendusky after the death of his father, Stan Leavendusky Sr. a few years back.

It was made from a "D" Konig that had spit a rod thru the side of the crankcase and ruined it for anything else. Stanley Sr., sawed the motor in half lengthwise and made a 349CC engine from the two top cylinders of the orginal engine. It was first constructed with the rotary valve in place, but we found (Butch and I tried it both on my Hydro and his Runabout) that after starting it with the prop out of the water, as soon as the motor was dropped in the water and a load put on it, it would throw the rotary valve belt. Not break it, but merely throw it off. We surmised this was because of the "big hit" every revolution from two cylinders firing together intead of two firing impulses every revolution when it was a four cylinder motor. Stan Sr. had given the intake some thought, and due to his thinking this might possibly happen, we had a reed valve setup that we were able to try at the same time. It started very well and jumped right on plane, had lots of power, but rapidly ran out of RPM and was not as fast as the competitive two cylinder alternate firing engines legal at that time. This was possibly due to the carb being used was a 25MM which was the largest carb legal in RB at the time, and the standard Konig carb was 40MM at that time. Add to that the fact that because the class rules at the time mandated an alternate firing engine, we just never fooled with it again. Basically what we had was a Konig two cylinder opposed firing "B" with a restricted carb. Just like the later Yamato 2 cyl "B's" and other opposed motors of that configuration and ignition advance of the day, it was a bear to start and would pull the starting rope thru your fingers in a moment, causing you to say "darn it" or something similiar. I don't know whether RC ended up with the engine or not. The last time I saw it was in Butch's shop with the reed valve on it. If RC does have it perhaps he could post a picture, as it certainly meets the criterea here of unusual engines.

[Mark Suter]

Bill, I certainly appreciate your comments on my write-up... especially because you were so heavily involved in the RB class. I try to document as much history as I can get on every motor I get for my collection. All too often there is little or no information and sometimes, as in this case, the information I do get is erroneous for any number of possible reasons. The BRF forums have been very helpful in critiquing information that has been posted on my motors and I use that input to correct any errors that are pointed out. So please accept my thanks for your input... the documentation on the John Deere motor will be updated accordingly.

As you surmised, the drivers of the John Deere motors were pretty much just "local" racers, but they did do pretty well at that level. Undoubtedly, the stiffer competition at Regional or higher levels must have left them "back in the pack".

[Jeff Lytle]

I have a pic of the John Deere taken at a race in Michigan somewhere........I'll have to look it up.

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

Jerry:

I think you are exactly right. There was a young kid (at the time) who used to pit for Ray Hardy and John Winzler. I can't for the life of me remember his name now, but it will come back in the middle of the night sometime. Anyway, he was very close with Harry and Harry kind of took him under his wing when he (the young man) went to work for Kioritz in Chicago. He really did not know much about two strokes other that the general theory at the time he went to work there, but with Harry's help he quickly rose thru the ranks and I believe was promoted eventually to a very high position with Kioritz. Harry was VERY helpful to him and basically taught him everthing he knew about engines. In turn, the young man was very greatful to Harry and did many nice things for him in return, including providing him, at little or no cost, many Kioritz products such as lawn trimmers, chainsaws, etc., that were NOS that were going to be scrapped when the newer models came out. Harry sold these, made a little cash, and everybody was happy. I think the young man would gladly confirm that he owed his success with that company to Harry and what knowledge he imparted to him. As you said, something very few people ever knew about. I happened to see a program on the History Channel about two years ago about all kinds of lawn and garden power equipment. It was narrated and the equipment demonstrations were done by this young man, who at that time was still employed by Kioritz.
I tried to find him two years ago after seeing the program as Mike Krier and I wanted him to present the ZAK Award that year, but unfortunately he is not with Kioritz anymore and I was unable to locate him, either there or in Chicago. Kioriz products also go under the name of ECHO.

Just remembered his name (before the middle of the nite) ANDY KUZMAR

While I was National SErvice Mgr. with Lawn-Boy, Andy was the same with Echo. Since I retired, not sure about Andy, but believe that he is still with Echo who are located in Lake Zurich, IL.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

Hi John:

Thanks for chiming in about Andy. I knew that Kioritz and Echo were "parent and child" or some such thing, but I don't remember now when I tried to find Andy whether I ended up with the operator at Kioritz or Echo if they are seperate offices in the Chicago area. I looked them up on the internet as I am sure Kioritz, and the person who answered the phone did recognize the name, but said he was no longer employed there. They either could not or would not give me any other details, which is sometimes company policy about past employees. I also had no luck with information on a personal number for him in the Chicago area.

Do you remember whether they are located at different locations, or were both at the same place? I would really like to find Andy if possible, as I am sure he would like to know about the ZAK Award and possibly make some contribution to it. As mentioned we wanted him to be the presenter two years ago when I was trying to locate him. Thanks again for letting me know your information.