Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: VP-70 As Raced in Minnesota

  1. #11
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    8,342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default I'm Not Sure...But....

    Howard Pipkorn, designed and built Hydrostream Boats. He probably build more than 5,000 boats. He was quite a racer himself, and basically "Discovered" Chris Bush..He was never in "FAVOR" with Mercury or Outboard Marine....

    As times changed, Howard has seen and experienced racing events that has changed his views of racing...

    1. Howard, himself, was hurt pretty badly in an SE Tunnel.

    2. He's seen Chris Bush with a near fatal broken jaw. He saw Chris almost lose a leg in the 24 Hour of Rouen...

    3. He's seen several die in Mod VP boats.

    4. He's seen numerous people spend all their money racing some HIGH DOLLAR RIGS.

    Howards looks back, as people like Rod Zapf and myself. We remember what was good about racing. Racing to us was going places. Having fun with friends and competition...Rod remembers when we had 20, 280 hydros in California, most with junk yard motors...He also remembers when guys started having their engines built by engine builders...Seeds went up, costs went WAY up, boat count went down.

    Mike Schubert, in Texas, saw thousands of Tri Hulls in people's yards, he put together a cheap class that Texans have had fun with.

    Howard, though he once had five Corvettes at the same time, now feels, racing a boat you find under a tree and get it running is fun...

    He doesn't want Mercury motors in this class. He doesn't want Japaneses motors in this class. He doesn't want power trim... cheap old motors, nothing special, what you could find in someone's back yard for the price of hauling if off...

    He had 15 boats at the last race....2008. For 2009, people want to "FIX" Howard's class....

    I've been around boat racing all my 64 years...I've never really seen a "FIX" FIX anything...Basically like a government program....Show me one that works...

    Howard has a concept.....leave him and his concept alone...Or join HIS FUN..

    Cracker Box is the OLDEST CLASS in APBA, you can race a 40 year old boat and still win!!!! This is a west coast class....everyone that every watches Cracker Boxes race, loves them!!!

    ADD:

    Why not power trim? You ask.....Not that it is expensive...But a new driver can easily over trim or under trim.....with a fixed set up...you get in, set down, shut up and RACE!!!

    LAST ADD:

    Did the Johnson 15A really FIX Stock Outboarding??? What happened to all the KG-4's??

    Did the Konig rally "FIX" Alky "PRO" Racing???

    Did doing away with the side measurement in runabouts "FIX" anything???

    The list goes on and on..

  2. #12
    Team Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Antioch, Il
    Posts
    381
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I agree, the rules should be left as they are.

    I attended many a TCPBA race as a kid and always enjoyed going up there for races 20- 30 some years ago. The races were usually in more rural areas and the race sites were beautiful.

    The people, many of whom are still racing up there, were very friendly and down to earth. TCPBA was all about the racing at a time when there were some that seemed to be caught up in the "prestige" of rubbing shoulders with the factories.
    They were always very accomodating; if you showed up with a rig, you could run it, even if they had to make up a class for you.

    I think these are the reasons they have survived so many years when so many other OPC clubs have not.

  3. #13
    Team Member seacow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hill View Post
    Cracker Box is the OLDEST CLASS in APBA, you can race a 40 year old boat and still win!!!! This is a west coast class....everyone that every watches Cracker Boxes race, loves them!!!
    What you say is true Ron. Crackerboxes would have taken over the racing world if it were not for two issues that are not consistent with the good ol race anything template that you and I favor:

    1. The motors cost $7,500 to $25,000 to modify to be competitive. As a result of the souped motors, the cost of an old used competitive rig can exceed $20,000 and the speed now can exceed 100 mph on the straights. (Note the new 107 mph plus record and did you see a P boat keep up pretty well when it joined a K boat heat at Bakersfield?)

    2. The exciting but primitive ride of these craft at such speeds gives one pause as does the lack of safety equipment, say a capsule. (At the same time adding a capsule would destroy the charm of these wonders.)

    To be totally consistent with where you were going in this post I would say there should be a second cracker division with a completely stock engine for lower racing costs and reduced speeds.

  4. #14
    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Annapolis, MD USA
    Posts
    3,976
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seacow View Post
    To be totally consistent with where you were going in this post I would say there should be a second cracker division with a completely stock engine for lower racing costs and reduced speeds.
    I think you are correct ... isn't the motor displacement restricted to a size considerably smaller than has been produced for decades? The way they arrive at the smaller displacement is thru a special short stroke crank ... a special part that adds a lot to the cost
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


  5. #15
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    8,342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Seacow....I Hear But

    Can't recall what you taught in college but know your are smart and well educted.....kind of like me....LOL!.....

    I look at Cracker Box and think of changes, then say NO!..Damn it...It has always been an expensive class and there has always been boats...

    There is something to be said about HOPE.....Hope you are going to be beautiful...Charles Revson sold HOPE not cosmetics...

    In a PURE STOCK CLASS...You buy 40 props, 15 engines and 11 boats and you can't win...So, you quit...In an OPEN CLASS, there is always hope about new headers, new cams, new manifolds, new pistons, new valves springs...

    I have thought of a smaller boat maybe, with a smaller engine.....but why? Like Howard Pipkorn told me about VP 70 or 75...We can find these boats all over Minnesota in people's back yards for free........but the problem is people want to change the rules o you need more expensive motors, lighter boats.....These OLD GUYS just want to have fun...
    Same with Cracker Boxes...They have fun...yes, they don't all LOVE EACH OTHEr....but they come and they RACE!

    Even TRI HULL has changed where you basically have to buy a NEW hull to race, that is if you want to win....

  6. #16
    Team Member seacow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default No changes

    Ron says that Crackers should not be changed. I agree; they are awesome as they are. My thought was a second stock Cracker class- kind of beginner and old man division. Yet what he says is true about the cost and work to win in pure stock-particularly in outboard classes and that is the part of the theme of comment in this thread.

    Ron's posts made me think more about our desire and perhaps need to expand the number of racing participants by lowering cost and evening competition. Cost of start-up and to become competitive may be now even more important with the economic times that confront us. One model to achieve this goal is the "bring and race any old thing" method. The other is the Japanese parimutuel types of restrictions that make all boats, motors (and I assume props) and everything else identical.

    Both approaches have drawbacks. In the first case, the driver that brings the best rig probably wins. In the second, its hard to regiment a bunch of wild racers in the US like is possible in Japanese culture and we can't restrict them to the driver's encampments and then switch rigs at random to control everything, Americans will find a way to tinker.

    We will have to keep on trying to find the right new approaches. In the meantime, I like the ideas I am seeing here in this thread. They seem promising.

  7. #17
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    8,342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Being A Global Thinker and Businessman...

    I see "POCKETS" developing, not HUGE classes like BU was once...Some areas of the world seem to be having a great time racing 40 Yamaha's, other parts are racing 25 Tohatsu's...



    Cracker Box is basically a local class with local control they have their own Club...Cracker Box Racing Association...

    Rod Zapf and I are having fun with Classic Outboard 2.0 Liter Texas is enjoying Tri hulls...

    New Jersey seems to think the Sidewinder is their future...

    One thing I read, that Craig DeWald said......and Make nom mistake, I consider Craig and David DeWald the best propeller people in the WORLD....Craig asked at the 2009 APBA meeting to slow the boats DOWN.

    One problem Craig sees and I see it too, , EVERY CLASS IS GOING TOO FAST. Craig and I are about the same age, more people get run out of the sport because of accidents or fear of accidents than any other reason...

    Did they listen to Craig at APBA? Yes, but they did NOTHING!
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 02-05-2009 at 12:12 PM.

  8. #18
    Team Member seacow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Too Fast

    I agree that its good advice to slow down in some classes. In recent years, I spoke with two premier runabout drivers who quit their classes because of dangerous speed. One up in PacNW who sold out his 1100 and Formula E stable of boats because of safety concerns and another in NorCal sold his 1100 for the same reason. Perhaps speed hazard partially accounts for the near demise of these wonderful outboard classes?

    Capsules probably can address much of the hazard of excessive speed but in my opinion if I am in a capsule its not boating as I grew to love it.

    I also notice that our drivers at the races that I see are averaging in older age groups than in the "golden years" when many of us started. As we age, we become aware that we are not immortal. Also our reaction times are not what they once were.

    I imagine that somewhere in headquarters APBA files one can find record of every serious injury and fatality at sanctioned events and in what classes they occurred. Its the kind of information that insurance companies often collect and analyze I wonder if this data has ever been complied and has been seen by anyone. It would be interesting to examine such data. Maybe someone or a committee has already done this?

    Questions about incidents by year per 10 race events and by class might tell us something about the toll of increasing speed. I imagine that the number of rigs per heat, hull and safety equipment design and race course characteristics may also be factors that would need to be isolated and looked at. If some sense could be made of the information, it might inform some of the decisions about the directions the sport should head toward, what classes to emphasize and what regulations should be tweaked. This information might for better or worse also have some implications for regatta insurance rates.
    Last edited by seacow; 02-05-2009 at 02:26 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #19
    Administrator Ron Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tustin, California
    Posts
    8,342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Todd Peterson Called

    Todd is on his way to a VP-75 race in Minnesota...(6/26/09).

    He and I plan to build an 11 foot V-Hull this winter...More to follow but the plan will be to run 2 cyclinder OMC 40-6- motors... The hull will be a modifed Hydrostream...

    Stay tuned...VP-MOD 45

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Minnesota Boat Racers
    By Tim Chance in forum Boat Racing Encyclopedia
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-29-2015, 01:11 PM
  2. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-01-2008, 06:25 AM
  3. Turnkey GT Pro in Minnesota
    By Chairman in forum Motors and Powerheads
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-03-2008, 10:20 AM
  4. Paul Charette, heard of him? raced in Maine late 50's early 60's
    By Silas_53A in forum Boat Racing Encyclopedia
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-30-2007, 07:02 PM
  5. optimax
    By cyka in forum BRF Open Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-21-2007, 08:23 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •