Thread: Fast Fred's OMC Mod 50 secrets Thread #2

  1. #471
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    just to let ya all know mike never ran the 56er,,, was illegal..... he set all records with his bounce pipe motor and overdrive.( orig 3" bore motor,),.. except the short course stuff..... wow tim you turn that high rpm??..me below that,,, but am running well over 8"dia,,,,, up here we all just brake the wiseco piston skirts..... we testing this weekend,,, d-stock and my kawi-rude,,, had to put new pistons in it forgot to turn water pump on last time,,,ugggg... that and richen carbs.... tim ..did you have to richen carbs up much with your trick front cases????... me working on bounce pipes now for rude,,, sure are big and heavy even my wrap around style uggg,,,,,

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    Default Piston woes

    Hey Cheney, I've never had structural problems with the McDaniel-Wiseco's, but sure burned alot of them down - mostly my fault due to fueling issues.

    Never heard of a broken skirt unless weight was taken out, or the boost port grossly oversized. Call sometime and we can discuss possible solutions.

    Thanks for solving the Mike Lopez mystery. Most all midwest racers believed the records were set with the sleeved down 56........ I never believed it.

    I turn an 8X13 with prop center at the bottom dead flat. My FE's are best to 8200, but will spin to 8600 with a short course wheel if you don't pay attention. Top end is all in the exhaust & porting. I eliminated the heavy/complex bounce pipe in favor of the lightweight pulse tuned system. Works for me.

    Good luck with your Kawi-Rude!
    Last edited by Tim Kurcz; 03-31-2010 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Forgot stuff

  3. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer's Edge View Post
    Dave, I believe you must be mistaken. According to APBA's web sight in 2009 850H was Modified Outboards third largest class with 40 entries. The only two with more were 500H and 750H.
    I also think there are a lot of cross over folks running a 750CCM in the class, and I know of some running a DSH, and in the west coast I thought I read they run the Tahotsu in the class.

    True 850CC engine, such as the OMC triple, and the 45SS twin are what I was judging. There seems to be a dwindling number of those, at least in my area and in the east. And from what I have been reading on the role call for the winter Nat's they are worried about enough to make a class. I suspect there will be enough given the 750CCM engines are legal to run as a 850CCM. And also those few that don't use the web much.

    I do whole heartily agree with Sam and DavidL6 though.

  4. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by formeone View Post
    just to let ya all know mike never ran the 56er,,, was illegal..... he set all records with his bounce pipe motor and overdrive.( orig 3" bore motor,),.. except the short course stuff.....
    Thanks Chenny, now I know why the short course stuff is hard to beat, and why I nearly beat the longer one.

    Tim, yes the records will stand as they passed inspection at the race site. it was not until a few years later that a 56 CI sleeved down engine was not allowed to run at Hinton. Well, actually I think Mike decided to not run it becasue of some potential issues brought to attention.

    My theory is the reason the 56 runs so well sleeved down is becasue of the obvious improved front cover. Straight in shot to the cylinder. No angles. And if memory serves (been a while since I looked at a 56 block) the area was larger, so the reed openings were larger ? Given this theory, that means your front covers and other mods done to improve the flow will work like a charm. From the pics, it looks like you have a straight shot into the cylinder, much like the 56 CI, on the 49 Ci blocks.

    I can say that a 56CI stock powerhead is an improvment on a 850CCMH boat, over the 49 CI. Maybe it was just a good boat and prop, but it definatly was fast. Fast enough I decided to not try and get this powerhead approved at a National Meeting. This was when the 49CI went out of production in favor of the 56 CI. Right when the laws changed for HP ratings. Maybe a few years after once they began showing up in the junk yards. I will look next time I am at the shop, I still have a 56 block in the junk blocks pile. I decided that if this was approved and people messed with it much it would easily see over 100MPH without a lot of work. I felt people were already on the edge, as at that time, they were running a lot of three holers on D size boats. I did not want to see another person killed racing the class. I already knew of a few killed racing the class.

  5. #475
    Team Member Danny Pigott's Avatar
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    How did this class get so out of hand? I was out of boat racing from 86 to 2003 so have no idea what happened, I won the first APBA FEH Nat's in 1980 an a lot has took place since then. The rules should have remained close to stock part's with some mod's an there would be a lot more of them running today. I have 6 FE power head's from the 80's Towers and units that would run well today. new 2005 props that have never been in the water.With the rules of today ,we will not run the class. I have seen at least three crank's for the 49 cu. eng. There is no end to it the way it is. I would just buy a 250 pro boat.

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    [QUOTE=Danny Pigott;89084]How did this class get so out of hand? I was out of boat racing from 86 to 2003 so have no idea what happened,QUOTE]

    As far as I can tell, not much has changed over the past few decades. In 2008 I drove a rig with a nicely put together STOCK powerhead that was built by Ed Runne. It had a good tower and gearcase on a great boat with a good prop. With this rig I won 11 out of 13 races with a STOCK powerhead. I am still not seeing the same speeds as Jerry Weindt was able to see way back in 1992. My lap times my be better due to better boat and prop technology but not probably by much. All of this motor work has from what I have seen does not make up for a good all around rig. I did take last year off, but in one year I can not imagine a huge increase in speed when the rules as far as I can tell have stayed the same for a very long time.
    If I can come back to racing this year maybe it will be an eye opening experience and I will not be able to keep up with any of the front runners. But I have a hard time believing that I will be too out to lunch in such a short period of time due to some people spending time working on their motors in what supposed to be Modified outboards trickest class.
    Just my two cents.
    Last edited by Racer's Edge; 03-31-2010 at 03:25 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #477
    Team Member Danny Pigott's Avatar
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    John, I have seen you run, my money is on you if you come to Ala. You have a great boat an set up. Thats what i was tryng to say, all this motor work is not going to cut it with out the rest of it. My 49 OMC's ran on Tunnels an V bottons in a mod OPC class an were allways in the front on our boats and cust. boat's. We tried MOD 50 stuff, but it didn't make much if any diff. On a short course the whole MOD 50 Rig. would not out run our 75 Tunnel, both were on the same brand boat. I called Jimbo an asked him about how fast MOD 50's. should run,.This is funny, he told me there are MOD 50's and then there are Mod 50's.

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    Default I trust Cheney

    Quote Originally Posted by David Mason View Post
    Thanks Chenny, now I know why the short course stuff is hard to beat, and why I nearly beat the longer one.

    Tim, yes the records will stand as they passed inspection at the race site. it was not until a few years later that a 56 CI sleeved down engine was not allowed to run at Hinton. Well, actually I think Mike decided to not run it becasue of some potential issues brought to attention. Cheney says Mike ran a legal 49.9 and I believe him. I ran against that same engine/boat in 1991, 1992, and 1993. No inspector would ever accept an illegal engine, so quit spreading false rumors about Mike and his engine.

    My theory is the reason the 56 runs so well sleeved down is becasue of the obvious improved front cover. Straight in shot to the cylinder. No angles. And if memory serves (been a while since I looked at a 56 block) the area was larger, so the reed openings were larger ? Given this theory, that means your front covers and other mods done to improve the flow will work like a charm. From the pics, it looks like you have a straight shot into the cylinder, much like the 56 CI, on the 49 Ci blocks. You need to look at a 56 again, Dave. The front half is identical to the 49.9 - angled and interchangeable. Like Cheney points out, mine have the straight in front halves like my custom built 49.9. Nobody has ever claimed the 56 sleeved down does any better, but I'm sure going to find out.

    I can say that a 56CI stock powerhead is an improvment on a 850CCMH boat, over the 49 CI. Maybe it was just a good boat and prop, but it definatly was fast. Fast enough I decided to not try and get this powerhead approved at a National Meeting. This was when the 49CI went out of production in favor of the 56 CI. Right when the laws changed for HP ratings. Maybe a few years after once they began showing up in the junk yards. I will look next time I am at the shop, I still have a 56 block in the junk blocks pile. I decided that if this was approved and people messed with it much it would easily see over 100MPH without a lot of work. I felt people were already on the edge, as at that time, they were running a lot of three holers on D size boats. I did not want to see another person killed racing the class. I already knew of a few killed racing the class.
    Your history is incorrect regarding the 56. It replaced the 49.9 because it offered betted durability, could deliver an honest 70 HP for pleasureboat use at a lower RPM range, and was less expensive to produce.

    Finally, the only FE driver killed I remember was Denny Black in 1998, and that was a 1-boat accident according to the witness that called me. Who are the the few you speak of? I again ask you to present facts if you're going to make arguments. Your rumor mongering is denegrating our sport.

  9. #479
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    Cheyney is right-

    Mike set all his records with a 49 cu in block. Yes, he did have a sleeved down 56 motor that Steve Benson built for him at the nationals. That is when he was told that it was illegal, and was asked not to run it even for fun since it was the nationals and out of repsect for the others on the course.

    Mike Lopez and Steve Benson are both stand up guys and do not cheat.
    Mike Sattler
    350cc Pro Alcohol Hydro

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    Sam Cullis Mark75H's Avatar
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    Like I said, the rules do not allow a sleeved down block that is not recognized as a regular legal block.

    Even if the minor shape differences are ignored, the 56 block was made using the lost foam technique. The finished metal resembles the styrofoam forms used in the manufacture. The 49's are smoother die cast pieces.
    Since 1925, about 150 different racing outboards have been made.


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